CDR Grendelwulf Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Homegrown rules & codeci aside, has anyone tried a basic adaptation of the previous C:DH or C:WH? Alien Hunters HQ. 0-1 Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Lord HQ. 0-1 Deathwatch Hero EL. Ordo Xenos Inquisitor EL. Deathwatch Terminator Squad EL. 0-1 Officio Assassin Operative TR. Deathwatch Squad (SM Sternguard Veterans) TR. Inquisitorial Storm Trooper Squad FA. Deathwatch Assault Squad HS. Deathwatch Devastator Squad HS. Deathwatch Dreadnought HS. Land Raider HS. Land Raider Crusader HS. Land Raider Redeemer HS. 0-1 Orbital Strike Ciao, CDR Grendelwulf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 death watch doesnt use dreadnoughts [to slow to extract in the fast, cover up operation they do] and no chapter would send terminator armored marines to fight outside of the chapter in mixed units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2147873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Valius Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 cant you wait a few years for inquisition codex that will undoubtly have some deathwatch captain showing his shoulderpad with a big ultramarine symbol on it for the front cover (come on, you know it will happen) I would say the sternguard should have -1 or 2 points and you can only pick one special ammunition type (more like old rules i think) after all they are troops! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2148289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaper88 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Troops yes, but so are C:SM sternguard when you take pedro! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2148312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 and no chapter would send terminator armored marines to fight outside of the chapter in mixed units Don't the AH books have a kill team with at least one TDA marine? Proably the best way to simulate a AH Kill Team is to allow you to make a squad, of any single mini you want, from any Marine Codex. Like a UM Command Squad Apocecary, with a SW Wolfguard in TDA with 2 LC, a DA Librarian, An IF Sternguard and a Sally Techmarine. That sort of thing. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2148344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDR Grendelwulf Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 death watch doesnt use dreadnoughts [to slow to extract in the fast, cover up operation they do] and no chapter would send terminator armored marines to fight outside of the chapter in mixed units. I could readily see a Deathwatch Kill-Team not using a Dreadnought. But when a larger need demands it? Perhaps the Dreadnought may have been created from a Deathwatch marine who truly deserved the heroic status of being encased in one. Maybe, according to the Xenos Inquisitor, his job was done yet. Death does not release one from service... TDA's could be mixed. I have not read the AH books, but again if the need arose I could see the Inquisition use whatever means necessary. Besides, if DN's & Penitent Eng's are good enough for the other chambers militant, why not the Deathwatch? cant you wait a few years for inquisition codex that will undoubtly have some deathwatch captain showing his shoulderpad with a big ultramarine symbol on it for the front cover (come on, you know it will happen) I know, I know. I really should be able to wait for it. Until then, this will just be an intellectual exercise. ;) Proably the best way to simulate a AH Kill Team is to allow you to make a squad, of any single mini you want, from any Marine Codex. Like a UM Command Squad Apocecary, with a SW Wolfguard in TDA with 2 LC, a DA Librarian, An IF Sternguard and a Sally Techmarine. What was that quickie variant? 40K in 40 minutes? That could be a fun way to play this. Ciao, CDR Grendelwulf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2149117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Remiel Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Looking good, Grendelwulf. I am looking forward to seeing how the list evolves. If you want my two cents (Canadian of course), using the DH and WH is an excellent place to start. If you had not considered it already, the SM allies allowed for these armies should be a good indicator of what may usable in a XH army. Comgined witht the AH books, you should be able to come up with an excellent codex. BTW, you are probably right about the Dreadnought and TDA. If a chapter is willing to let a techmarine (of which there are fewer than TDA), then I can see them possibly sending them to AH. Also the Inq does have limited access to TDA (only Malleus if I remember correct for their Inqs). They may have some SM suits available for when needed. Just some quick thoughts. That said, don't you have enough Ordos projects already?! ;) First, DIY armies for DH, WH, and XH (although the XH looks like it is also your Call of the B&C project), and now working on a homegrown codex. You have far more energy than I do right now (most of which is being spent on a major cleaning effort). Keep us posted on the results. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2149168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltnot Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Before you get too swept up in the "coolness" of the idea, can you name a source when there have been more then two squads of Deathwatch in use at a given time? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2149219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDR Grendelwulf Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 ...don't you have enough Ordos projects already?! First, DIY armies for DH, WH, and XH (although the XH looks like it is also your Call of the B&C project), and now working on a homegrown codex. You have far more energy than I do right now (most of which is being spent on a major cleaning effort). What? You missed my post about using the new Codex: Space Wolves for an Adeptus Mechanicus army? I need these other projects sometimes, just to keep my head clear. I only wish I had the time to match my enthusiastic ideas. Some of these ideas are my own way of 'cleaning up' my models, etc. Before you get too swept up in the "coolness" of the idea, can you name a source when there have been more then two squads of Deathwatch in use at a given time? Fluffwise? That is always questionable. Fluff doesn't always equate to playability. Who is to say Deathwatch is only Kill-Teams? GW. And they haven't said they are restricted as such. Ruleswise? Yes, there is a source. The original Chapter Approved rules for Deathwatch allowed it. To quote: "As an alternative to fielding entire Kill-teams, you may upgrade one or more members of any Space Marine army to members of Deathwatch." "Only Independent Characters, Veteran or Tactical squads can be upgraded, and these must wear the distinctive Deathwatch shoulder pad. Deathwatch members must be armed with a bolter or a combi-weapon with a bolter component. It costs [edited for B&C rules about giving points] points to make a model a Deathwatch Veteran (there is no change to their profile)." That is at least 2 IC's, 3 Vet squads, & 6 Tac squads in a standard organization chart. Or 92 models if you wanted to spend the points. I think an ambitious Inqusitor could pull a company's worth of marines from the thousand chapters out there if the need was great enough. Or, at the least, a few squads... Ciao, CDR Grendelwulf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2149255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Remiel Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 ...don't you have enough Ordos projects already?! First, DIY armies for DH, WH, and XH (although the XH looks like it is also your Call of the B&C project), and now working on a homegrown codex. You have far more energy than I do right now (most of which is being spent on a major cleaning effort). What? You missed my post about using the new Codex: Space Wolves for an Adeptus Mechanicus army? I need these other projects sometimes, just to keep my head clear. I only wish I had the time to match my enthusiastic ideas. Some of these ideas are my own way of 'cleaning up' my models, etc. No I did not miss that article. :whistling: Just did not feel like including it in my list. If I listed everything you seemed to be doing, well, I could be here a while. I really need to put many of my ideas and projects into action and not just as notes (prodigidous though they are) in various notebooks and project binders. Before you get too swept up in the "coolness" of the idea, can you name a source when there have been more then two squads of Deathwatch in use at a given time? .... Ruleswise? Yes, there is a source. The original Chapter Approved rules for Deathwatch allowed it. To quote: "As an alternative to fielding entire Kill-teams, you may upgrade one or more members of any Space Marine army to members of Deathwatch." "Only Independent Characters, Veteran or Tactical squads can be upgraded, and these must wear the distinctive Deathwatch shoulder pad. Deathwatch members must be armed with a bolter or a combi-weapon with a bolter component. It costs [edited for B&C rules about giving points] points to make a model a Deathwatch Veteran (there is no change to their profile)." That is at least 2 IC's, 3 Vet squads, & 6 Tac squads in a standard organization chart. Or 92 models if you wanted to spend the points. I think an ambitious Inqusitor could pull a company's worth of marines from the thousand chapters out there if the need was great enough. Or, at the least, a few squads... Boo yah! And it is out of the park. That is an excellent point Grendelwulf, completely within the rules (or at least for 4th Ed). But it is does give a lot of support to your fledgeling C:XH. I wish I had remembered that. Hopefully, GW will remember that too when and if they ever get around to an C:Inq or barring that, C:XH. One can only hope. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2149385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Althought, the; As an alternative to fielding entire Kill-teams, you may upgrade one or more members of any Space Marine army to members of Deathwatch." "Only Independent Characters, Veteran or Tactical squads can be upgraded, and these must wear the distinctive Deathwatch shoulder pad. Deathwatch members must be armed with a bolter or a combi-weapon with a bolter component. It costs [edited for B&C rules about giving points] points to make a model a Deathwatch Veteran (there is no change to their profile). is to simulate Marines from your Chapter, coming back to it, after serving time in the Deathwatch. Not for having a near full Chapter of DW Marines. :D As reward for the service provided <snip> is back in regular service with his chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2149743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDR Grendelwulf Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 @ Gentlemanloser: It is slightly ambiguous, as some GW writings are. Yes, on the one hand it refers to a Deathwatch member returning to his Chapter, with a 'gift' of enough special ammo for squads in the Chapter. It seems a bit too Santa Clausy for the Inquisition to be so generous. Then, the way the rules put it, it refers to upgrading the marines into Deathwatch Veterans, along with their identifying pauldron. Now, if you model it as Deathwatch and the rules call them Deathwatch Veterans...with all respect, they are Deathwatch. Not that these rules were a codex, but as GW's writings often have a little blurriness for interpretation, it is almost as good as one. Well, the closest thing we have to one for now. A full company of Deathwatch may be extreme, but it is only to show it could be done before by the rules. For an AH codex, several squads would be possible. That is sort of the main reason for everyone's homemade Alien Hunter codeci to exist. We would like a codex! The Deathwatch are the chamber militant of the Ordo Xenos. They exist in large numbers. If the Inquisition 'gifts' so much ammo to a chapter, certainly they must use it likewise for themselves in arming their own Deathwatch. As for fluff, just because something hasn't been written does not mean it cannot be. And, as I said before, fluff does not translate often into rules and play. And as no fluff police are going to break down anyone's doors, I think it is safe to contemplate a larger-than-single-kill-team Deathwatch force. Ciao, CDR Grendelwulf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2149759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It just means that they reached (or more likey were picked in the first place) 'Veteren' Status after completing their term of service in the Ordo Xenos. The 'gift' could be seen as the Ordos bribe to let them nick some of your chapters finest, at any time they like, no matter what other engagements you're already involved in. You might be narked, but instead of maybe prompting some sort of inter imperium conflict, they grease the wheels a little by allowing the survivors to take a little bit of high tech back as payment. There's no doubt in my mind GW shamelessly stole the idea of the DW Kill Team for Sternguard Veterens. But again, I've not actually read the OX novels, but from what I was told, the kill team put together was like forming a squad from various individual IC 'heros'. the DW pick and choose the best, from anywhere they can get it. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2149921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
- 7eAL - Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Anyone who suggests that Deathwatch can only be fielded in limited number should also note the variety of xenos enemies that appear in Rogue Trader and Inquisitor but do not form large enough armies to warrant an actual codex. The Imperium knew about the existence of the Tau, for example, but did not see them as a threat. During the time when the Tau worlds were isolated from the Imperium by Warp storms and so on, they managed to develop a technologically advanced, violently expansionist society. If they had not been isolated and protected, would not the Deathwatch have been dispatched to purge them? In the history of 40K, at least one other race out there (some reptilian or centauroid race similar to Fantasy dragon ogres) is violent enough that the Imperial population must not know of its existence, and that it must be continuously suppressed and monitored by the Inquisition. No Space Marine Chapter was ever said to hold that duty. In theory, that would be the perfect 'training grounds' for Marines of the Deathwatch, and would warrant Deathwatch operations on full Company or even larger scale. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2151342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 death watch doesnt use dreadnoughts [to slow to extract in the fast, cover up operation they do] and no chapter would send terminator armored marines to fight outside of the chapter in mixed units. Actually if you read the deathwatch series yes there are terminators in mixed units. The deathwatch arms its units appropriately for the mission so yes a terminator would be much help. that's why they use mixed units. the soldiers are armed for the mission requirements. like silenced rounds for covert ops, or jump packs for hit and run. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2154105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 death watch doesnt use dreadnoughts [to slow to extract in the fast, cover up operation they do] and no chapter would send terminator armored marines to fight outside of the chapter in mixed units. Why not i included the Dreadnought in my Alien hunter dex (yes a homegrown one) as wel. Alien hunters Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2155275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 People need to stop trying to translate the Deathwatch into an alien copy of the Grey Knights. The Grey Knights are a standing chapter. Deathwatch is special ops with rotational line ups made up of small squads. I can't see there ever being a codex. Because if there is ever a serious alien threat they just bring in a full Chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2155694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 doesnt mean that they cant be a viable option in either of the other codecei, or in any INQ one to come out in the future Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2155978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 DW are fun because technically you can arm them with anything. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2159011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta13 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 death watch doesnt use dreadnoughts [to slow to extract in the fast, cover up operation they do] and no chapter would send terminator armored marines to fight outside of the chapter in mixed units. thats actually incorrect...in one of the death watch novels...i don't remember if it was warrior coven or the other one but there is versy specifically a terminator from the white consules chapter assaigned to the team...and if i remember correctly a dread nought in another novel... and as for the thread subject matter i have created a Death Watch army...using Codex Space Marines as my guide including inquisitorial elements from codex Daemon Hunters...and the WD chapter approved article on the Death Watch and their rules...but i use those rules for my elite choices...so "X" amount of marine squads are normal marines and "X" amount will be apropriately armed and will count as veterans...and of course have the proper Deathwatch rules applied to them...as will the appropriate HQ choices...other wise if it is a unit not included in the WD rules then they simply use their original codex rules... I think this helps to make the army balanced but still themeable and fun to use and also helps to have a great looking and "fluff correct" army on the table... so far i have 10 terminator squads (6 x shooty and 4 x assault)...all recruited to the task force in full squads...not mixed...I.e. 1 x blood angels termi squad...1 x red scorpion termi squad. etc. ( the chapters i have used for my Termis are; BA, DA, BT, UM, Sal, Red Scorp., SW, IF, Raptors & Iron Snakes Ordo xenos Inquisitor Solomon Lok Dreadnought, Salamanders Chapter with Multi melta and CCW with storm bolter a tech marine from the Praetor of Orpheus a chaplain from the Hawk lords a librarian from the exorcist chapter a captain from the imperial fists and four x 10 man marine squads from various mixed chapters... two shooty squads and two assault oriented squads...currently working on another 2 squads 6 x drop pods and looking to get a thunder hawk and possibly a devastator squad just as a possible back up support unit... also considering the possibility of another inquisitor but in termi armour... would love to know what the rest of you think... James Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2159292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta13 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 death watch doesnt use dreadnoughts [to slow to extract in the fast, cover up operation they do] and no chapter would send terminator armored marines to fight outside of the chapter in mixed units. Why not i included the Dreadnought in my Alien hunter dex (yes a homegrown one) as wel. Alien hunters would love to see your ordo xenos dex dude...would love to see how similar it is to the one i am working on... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2159308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibious Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Sorry but i do not buy this list. IMHO Ordo Xenos would not be using Dreads OR Terminators. there would only be two ways they would field these. 1. The chapter lends out one of their own Term/Dread. But what chapter in their right mind would send out such trained and legendary men? 2 DW promote a normal PA recruit. Which would be also unlikely due to the men near worthy would be about to leave back for their chapter anyway. Then theres the problem of returning back to duty when you have been a DW Dread? When I think of XH I'm thinking of a majority of PA troops with improved equipment to do the task at hand. I then also note that their prefered enemy is the Xenos so just like DH wouldnt they specificaly tool against Xenos. Just like they aim to bypass Invulnerables, kill high toughness Deamons and deter Deepstriking. Ok so looking at the new target enemy of aliens what would I give my men? -Grenades: They enemy is likely to swarm with many low Armour units, templates would be ideal here. Not flamers, thats WH -Anti high T and Multiple wound dealers. Monsters and units with multiple wounds is not an uncommon substitue for Tanks. Nothing too broken, just 4+ wounding poison weapons or D3 wound causing implants (tyranids have them?) Ok and the other viewpoint. With my increased knowledge of the enemy. What would I attempt to steal? -Bright/Dark Lance (Gets hot?) -Crisis Suits -AI So with all that in mind I would suggest that if GW ever do make one. That it would be similar to this. HQ Inquisitor DW Leader (Cannot be from another chapter, purely created to lead other models LD11) Elite Crisis style robot suits Assassins Mercinary (Radical) edit: Better still, mind control. Nothing can be more pleasing to an inquisitor than using the enemy as a meatshield =D Troops Kill Teams (Larger variety of weapons. Loads of new age contraptions) Swarm style robots (Poss rending or decent cover) IST Fast Land speeders Flying mini drone gunships (I play too much of killzone 2) Heavy Lancers Orb Bomb Land Raider Flamer variant? Plus a mix of more tanks that I do not know of because I do not own SM or IG My 50p =) -Gib- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2159469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFist Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Actually like I have said before DW do use Termies. And they are recruited from almost any/every chapter. Becoming a DW is one of the greatest honors a marine can earn. P.S. I base most my stuff on fluff from the DW sereis by C.S. Goto. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181418-codex-alien-hunters/#findComment-2160244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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