Dunedon Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Bear with me, as I might be very very slow ... but if you take logan your Wolf Guard count as troops .... So if do that, and then assign one of them to each of your other units (as allowed by the rules) ... does that not mean that ALL of those units will have at least 1 scoring model? And as long as they survive until the end of the game you could have a unit, that in itself is not capable of holding an objective, actually being able to claim one due to this one added model? That seems like a huge advantage to me ... of course I could be reading something completely wrong as this is my first read through the codex ... how do you folks read it? - Dunedon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181432-wolf-guard-count-as-troops/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonham1963 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 It says a WG unit counts as troops and not the model. WG becomes a pack leader when he joins LF, BC,GH etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181432-wolf-guard-count-as-troops/#findComment-2147815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 please use search in future, this topic was on page 2 right near the top http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...95&hl=guard and the simple answer is no they don't count as scoring unless the unit they are attatched to does (e.g you attatch them to grey hunters/blood claws). they are considered to be a member of the new unit and will be considered either a heavy, fast or elite choice depending on what unit you attatch them to Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181432-wolf-guard-count-as-troops/#findComment-2148008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgers37 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 That SUCKS, why does it not say that? It just says they count as troops, not become what ever unit they join, unless someone at my club says otherwise, i'm going to play them as if there troops, as that is what it says... (and how do you explain Wolves? why do they count as troops? unless they are troops? therefore Wolf Guard units would also be troops) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181432-wolf-guard-count-as-troops/#findComment-2148021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolfmxc Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 well heres a tricky one , so how about if the rest of the unit the wolf guard is attached to is all killed ? does he revert back into a troop unit ? (even his just one guy left) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181432-wolf-guard-count-as-troops/#findComment-2148027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin_eX Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 That SUCKS, why does it not say that?It just says they count as troops, not become what ever unit they join, unless someone at my club says otherwise, i'm going to play them as if there troops, as that is what it says... (and how do you explain Wolves? why do they count as troops? unless they are troops? therefore Wolf Guard units would also be troops) Obstinately ignoring what is written does not make it so. SW Codex, Page 56 "Wolf Guard units count as troops..." Emphasis mine. Next up Main Rule Book, Page 3, Under Models & Units "Each model is an individual playing piece with its own capabilities..." Later under the Units section "Warriors band together into squads, teams, section or similarly named groups [...] In Warhammer 40,000, we represent this by grouping models together into units." So Wolf Guard unit denotes specifically the squad entry for Wolf Guard and only that squad entry. If you add a Pack Leader to another squad they do not become a Wolf Guard unit, they remain the unit they are. Grey Hunters continue being Grey Hunters, Blood Claws remain Blood Claws and Wolf Scouts remain Wolf Scouts for just a few examples. The Pack Leader is added to these units organically and changes them in no other way, especially not by turning them into a Wolf Guard unit which is required under Logan's rules to be counted as a troop choice. The rules are quite clear on what a model is and what a unit is and a Wolf Guard model is a different beast than a Wolf Guard unit. So if you think that adding a Wolf Guard model to a unit turns it into a Wolf Guard unit and thus a troop choice or even a scoring unit then more power to you but I hope your opponent calls you on it because nothing in the rules supports this opinion. As for everyone but the pack leader dieing, as he is not an IC but a member of the joined squad it continues being the unit it was before and he does not become a scoring unit upon the death of his last comrade because his presence does not change the unit he joins into a Wolf Guard unit even if he is the last member. That seems the most obvious interpretation given the differences between models and units at least. This is at least a little more debatable (but not by much) but the OP's point is quite clearly wrong given any normal reading of the rules when taking the differences between models and units into account. One of the few times GW actually went to the trouble of clarifying the language they use and low and behold it proves why they should do it more often. Cheesy possible tactic counteracted by a little explanation on the third page of the rules. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181432-wolf-guard-count-as-troops/#findComment-2148067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haakon_Stormbrow Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 question what fif you put a wolfguard in tda with your longfangs and after 6 turns all long fangs are dead, is he scoring then? since he is alone? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181432-wolf-guard-count-as-troops/#findComment-2148079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolfmxc Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 it was just answered above , and i agree in person XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181432-wolf-guard-count-as-troops/#findComment-2148090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgers37 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Why do Wolves count as troops though? that is also what i am asking..... and tbh, i'm not that sure i want Logan in 1500pt games, which is what i have to play most, so it doesn't worry me that much, other than i have 20 terminators, and atm only 20 Grey Hunters.... (but why would Wolves count as Troops????????????) oh and why would a Terminator list be Cheesy? if anything it could be very poor, if you don't get tactics/luck right, some games you can just about win if you have bad luck, or poor tactics, but if you just take 3/4 squads of terminators, you army list is halved, or maybe less than half, than one that includes no terminators/1 unit, and all that terminators gain is a 2+ save standard, they will still die, especially with focused fire power/assault, and that is much more possible when there is less on the board..... (i just don't like the Term Cheesy, no one says Real Madrid are cheesy for buying all the best players, or Chelsea or Man.city ect.... so why are Warhammer lists with good units in cheesy?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181432-wolf-guard-count-as-troops/#findComment-2148225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Why do Wolves count as troops though? that is also what i am asking.....and tbh, i'm not that sure i want Logan in 1500pt games, which is what i have to play most, so it doesn't worry me that much, other than i have 20 terminators, and atm only 20 Grey Hunters.... (but why would Wolves count as Troops????????????) Because it makes sense. Troops represents the bulk infantry of your army, the grunts who get most of the leg work done. That is what large packs of Fenrisian Wolves are. They lack anything but a basic primal ferocity that makes them pretty decent as shock troops, but have not the tactical acumen for strategy (hence the Supernumary (sp?) rule). And also FYI Fenrisian Wolf packs only take up a Troops selection on your Force Organization chart. Unlike other Troops, they cannot hold or capture objectives. oh and why would a Terminator list be Cheesy? if anything it could be very poor, if you don't get tactics/luck right, some games you can just about win if you have bad luck, or poor tactics, but if you just take 3/4 squads of terminators, you army list is halved, or maybe less than half, than one that includes no terminators/1 unit, and all that terminators gain is a 2+ save standard, they will still die, especially with focused fire power/assault, and that is much more possible when there is less on the board..... (i just don't like the Term Cheesy, no one says Real Madrid are cheesy for buying all the best players, or Chelsea or Man.city ect.... so why are Warhammer lists with good units in cheesy?) No one said a Terminator list is cheesy. They're calling your decision to make Wolf Guard (along with any unit they join) "count as Troops" cheesy: It just says they count as troops, not become what ever unit they join, unless someone at my club says otherwise, i'm going to play them as if there troops, as that is what it says... Besides, not to get into semantics here, but you're right. Cheesy is a term that is fairly loosely thrown around. But consider that a lot of people play for the enjoyment of the game, and of the re-enactment or portrayal of the fluff/background of the Warhammer/Warhammer 40k universe. Most power gaming lists (re: "cheesy") break that portrayal, and you end up with situations that, while powerful in-game, would never actually happen in the Warhammer/Warhammer40k universe. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181432-wolf-guard-count-as-troops/#findComment-2148394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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