Hfran Morkai Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yep, you heard it. They run at 15 points with power armour and four attacks on the charge. Two points more than nilla scouts for that, counter attack, acute senses, a few cool upgrade options and bezerk charge. I think people are just thinking of the actual reduction in close combat weapons in a pack but considering what you are paying for I think they are underated. Obviosuly you can't outflank or infiltrate with them but I feel that they have a place in the Great Company still, you just need to know how to get them there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilander Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 The problem as usual is getting them where you need them...and buying Crusader is not always the option. I am currently testing footslogging pack with pack leader as a second wave after my mechanized Grey Hunters do initial hit into enemy lines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I think the problem with Blood Claws is that for the same cost Grey Hunters are better and for only a few points more you can have skyclaws. Nothing is wrong with Blood Claws, but better choices exist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 you wanna get em where you need them then buy a rhino, it gets them there, or footslog, its not as quick as a rhino, but also not as slow as back in 4th edition due to running, footslogging 15 blood claws could be very viable, especially if the target your aiming for is being held up by a smaller rhino born unit of claws or hunters. I've always been a huge fan of the claws, and I still am, and they will have a significant place in my army no doubt about that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgad Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 A quick comparison reveals this. Bloodclaws and Grey Hunters are of equal cost. Bloodclaws compared to Grey Hunters as follows: (Pros marked by +, cons marked by -) + +1 attack on charges, + Large Squad size. - Bs & ws 3 - No bolters - No standards - No MOTW - If within 6" of an enemy squad, cannot shoot, and must assault. - Require 15-man sized squad for additional free special weapon, as opposed to 10. - Landraider Crusader only option for transports of 15-man sized squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokkan Of The Long Hall Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I've found a good way to use them is as a second wave (after grey hunters and/or wolf guard) drop pod assault. The grey hunters/wolf guard land, rapid fire and then either assault or counter attack. This tied up enemy units in the heart of their lines and allowed the Blood Claws to assault. The three units then snow balled abouts 60 imperial guard troops. Only done it once though, so luck may have played a large part..... :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearlessgod Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'm also a big fan of Blood Claws. I think they should have a place in all but the most competitive lists (tournament). Mine will be 15 strong, led by a WG pack leader, and footslogging their way to glory. If nothing else, it will give my opponents something else to think about during battle. ~fearlessgod~ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
antique_nova Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 so it's been 1 year 6months and 19 days since i joined and i am about to type up my 1000th post :huh:. sorry i had to just write this off-topic part of my reply ^^ and i am about to over-take Grey Mage in the days top posters today! ( i didn't spam they were 99% detailed with some longs comments in there ). anyway, BC are very underrated. give them a power fist and a wolf guard with a power fist. and stick ragnar in with a lrc and that's you ultimate anti-horde and naturally anti-anything. thanks antique_nova Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 - Bs & ws 3 which makes no difference since your gonna be charging more than shooting, and since the most common WS is 4 even with WS3 your still hitting the same as if you were WS4 - No bolters again does that matter for a squad thats charging and moving every turn, otherwise assault squads get a minus for having no bolters - No standards not really such a huge minus, and a blood claw with a banner would get more raised eyebrows than a blood claw without - No MOTW overrated ability - If within 6" of an enemy squad, cannot shoot, and must assault. add a wolf guard then, you will anyway, its stupid not to - Require 15-man sized squad for additional free special weapon, as opposed to 10. so?, then either buy 15, or have only 1 special weapon - Landraider Crusader only option for transports of 15-man sized squads. then make them 10 men in a rhino, or walk+run Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yea, when you could take 3 power fists.. that was a bit overpowered. It was nice being able to charge anything and know that you'll win though. I'll still use them occassionally, but grey hunters are where it's at! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucku Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I've been playing with a smaller build centered around Lukas the Trickster, 5 BCs and a Razorback. The goal here is to go character-hunting and provide Lukas some meatshields to get the job done. Otherwise I'll take Grey Hunters or Skyclaws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChapniK Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I have been thinking of using a full 16 (15 bc+wg) man pack and buying them a rhino for them to run behind. has anyone tried this Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 I remember the days of running them in rhinos, you get out and hide behind the rhino for a turn. And I was comparing with nilla scouts, that makes them so much more tasty for those two points. Obviously a Grey Hunter is preferable in a lot of circumstances and you don't get infiltrate/outflank but you have a unit throwing out four attacks each on the turn they charge (and often when getting charged) that will smack a SM captain or even our own Wolf Lords on a 4+. Sure they'll be hit on threes but that is an insane amount of attacks. Also with regards to sky claws, yes they are better and good value but they cannot hold an objective, at least Blood Claws can if you really need to, you shouldn't in my opinion because you should be running one BC pack to at least one GH pack. Also if the WS really upsets you, Wolf Priest, gets round headstrong, is a cheap HQ unit, makes the unit fearless and gets you re-rolls against a unit type. I'm not saying I'm going to be using them that much, just that the game isn't about throwing down as many powerfists as possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Pfft. 15 pack + WGBL w/ SoHunter. Outflank. Charge. Win. People who don't take BC are missing the point ... unless they are tournament hounds (GET IT?!), then there is some slack. :ermm: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I think that you're correct in saying that they're not overcosted, but there are two big things working against them. 1. GHs are way better at the same cost and have better options. Ditto for skyclaws. 2. They got a big hit with the nerf stick, so a lot of veteran players feel a big let down. @King Tiger: While some of the points you make are good, the negatives mentioned are still quite important. - WS3: Getting hit back on 3's by those WS4 units that will hit at the same initiative really hurts. Also, there are quite a few other WS3 units out there and GHs hit as much with their 30 attacks as BCs will with 40. - No bolters: The advantage of bolters isn't just the shooting, GHs don't loose a CC attack when they get a special because they keep the BP/CCW combo. - Another disadvantage is that if you want to keep some kind of control for them, you have to spend points on an extra for the squad. An extra 30-40 pts for a wolf guard ('cause you're going to buy a special CCW for him) to stop them running of an objective on turn 6 of the ability to shoot when in charge range is a significant investment. They do have their place though. Agaist mediovre CC armies (IG, Tau, Necron, Sisters) they can be great shock troops. A decent size squad led by a Wolf Priest will hit hard. Load them up in a rhino or a crusader to get them to the front rapidly and distract the enemy with other GH squads so that they can make it to the lines intact. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I have been thinking of using a full 16 (15 bc+wg) man pack and buying them a rhino for them to run behind. has anyone tried this you cant buy then a vehcile that they wont fit into Pfft. 15 pack + WGBL w/ SoHunter. Outflank. Charge. Win. People who don't take BC are missing the point ... unless they are tournament hounds (GET IT?!), then there is some slack. :) wouldnt the WGBL lose hunter when he jons the claws Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeddon Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 wouldnt the WGBL lose hunter when he jons the claws yup Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 Nothing stopping you buying a vehicle they can't fit in, like a tac squad and razorback combat squadding, it's taken at ten men. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 then the best way i see to run a 15 man pack is like i did back in 3e, foor slog with a master of runes, which he uses lighting on the enemy and then storm calls so that you have a cover save. or you take hurricane for the offensive/defensive ability of it to be a nasty cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 People who don't take BC are missing the point ... unless they are tournament hounds (GET IT?!), then there is some slack. :) I think its more todays generation of wolf players are not just missing the point about BC, but about space wolves, even the older veterans are starting to miss the point entirely, there all too interested in whats effective and whats going to win them the next battle in 1 turn, instead of what is wolfy and wanting a big hard won victory worthy of actually telling about for years, back in the day space wolf players were space wolf players, not anymore, now old and new wolf players have degenerated into Ultramarine players in grey armour, wanting a quick victory and an army full of uber units. its a sad dark time for the space wolves, a very dark time indeed :) . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 i have two units of BC that i can merge into one 15 man if i wanted two, or keep them in two units. i may take them from time to time, but with GH being the same points, GH are a better choice, its not what is the uber unit, its quality versus points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 i run a unit of 9 no upgrades and a wg with a power sword in a rhino and i love em i take them every game and they make a mess of most things blood claws rock and they do what it says on the tin grey hunters are for there own uses dont get me wrong but blood claws are for fun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Scotcho Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 2 units of 15 with flamers and meltas, plasma pistols, and powerfists, led by 2 different Wolf Priests. They're going to hide behind a pair of Razorbacks, and then slingshot (to borrow a NASCAR term) around for the ridiculous assault. In Apocalypse, their will be even more Blood Claws, I'm thinking 6 packs, all tooled for CQB, and prolly all led by Wolf Priests. I like the Wolf Guard a little too much hanging out with my WGBL or Lord to make them babysit. Of course in Apocalypse, they'll be riding Thunderwolves, so it won't matter anyhow..... My plans are to do combo charges and wave attacks, meaning either 2 units will be charging 1, or the Blood Claws will go in first, followed a turn later by Grey Hunters. 114 attacks in one turn from the combined charges of 2 full Blood Claw packs (not including Wolf Priests) should annihilate just about anything, no matter how badly you roll. Thats assuming they're at full strength, obviously, which when I load mine up in LRC's they hopefully will be. The point of all of this random rambling on is that they can still be rather ridiculous, even without powerfist spam or MotW. (note: my math for the attacks is prolly bad, but I'm really too tired to care much) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 i run a unit of 9 no upgrades and a wg with a power sword in a rhino and i love em i take them every game and they make a mess of most things blood claws rock and they do what it says on the tin grey hunters are for there own uses dont get me wrong but blood claws are for fun This point is missed by many. My Blood Claw pack with WGPL is out there to sow confusion and havoc. People are going to be freaked out by a cheap and crazy squad running amok with 40+ attacks on the charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 so what do you reckon?power sword or fist for my BC? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181453-blood-claws-underated/#findComment-2148596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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