Gibious Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Ever since the Way of the Water Warrior was born many Deamonhunters accross the globe have been including multiple Godhammers in their lists. But as the article ages and the 5th edition Rules are building up to a mass Armour/Melta future, there has been a change of peoples oppinions wanting to use Crusaders now instead. The TLLC superior range Godhammer or the Huricane Bolters mass firepower Crusader. Whats your oppinion? -Gib- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 It is very situational, the goal is the use which one complements your army the most. I personaly use LRC's. I needed a transport for my termies AND my anti-tank game was VERY weak. Adding LRC's solved BOTH of those problems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2148188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Valius Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I use LRC's for some obvious reasons. Greater anti infantry power, greater transport capacity and a multi melta (very important), as well as the humble frag assault launchers for my termies. The way of the water warrior was designed for VP's not objectives. in silent requim's time you could take a few lascannon shots from range and wait for the enemy so the greater range was needed. In 5th ed you need to go for the home objectives of your opponents and force them off the objectives which will need a crusader. The GHLR's place in 5th ed is for apocalypse or standing at the back of the board on objective where it wastes a lot of its opportunities. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2148272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 The GK LRC is the single best tank in the game, period. It gets a machine spirit AND it can always fire its hurricane bolters. In this context, the weaker assault cannon stats is a mere annoyance, nothing more. 5e is a faster, more mobile game. This suits the GK LRC much better than the GK LR. Besides, if you're paying big points to remove infantry just so you can protect them better with land raiders, you want a tank that can compensate by pouring out even more firepower. The LRC meets those needs. AND it is superior at killing armour -- thanks to its MM turret -- at the ranges in which you want to operate with the vehicle anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2148375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razmus Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 LRC = anti-tank problem solved But then that would be a waste as a transport utility. *man I wish we had attack bikes or drop pod MM Dreads! Alas, I ask for too much Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2148379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
templargdt Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Crusaders all the way. Makes up for lack of anti-armor, keeps Knights safe and gives them frags. Awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2148403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I shall only be using my GK Redeemer. Flamestorm incinerators and psycannons is the only way to burn the sin from the souls of the heretics :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2148505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeddon Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 i'd like to run 1 of each (LR, LRC, LRR) but for now it's just the first two. i find them both to compliment each other quite well! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2148716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Zaku Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Um, magnets are your friend and ally. Hah, but if that's not an option for you, then I'd pick the LRC. With troops becoming the bread and butter of tournament play, it bleeds off into casual games as well. How many of us have suffered under the dread 'melta spam' before? With troops more important, or at least carrying all of the nasty little surprises, I don't go to my FLGS without an LRC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2149046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozybonza Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I use one of each (because they are the models I own) but the LRC always seems to do allot better. Move 12" and fire bolters + assault cannon = WIN. The Multi Melta is also the only real trick we have up our sleeves for popping other Land Raiders, if only the new LRR had that option..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2149069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 LRC for Terminators because you are trading multiple Storm Bolter shots for more Power Weapon hits. And you want to operate within 8 inches. GHLR for PAGK because you want to remain just as effective a threat from up close as from a distance to retain your reactive, rather than proactive status. And when it comes to Anti Armour, you can always open the top hatch on a Rhino and fire out two Meltaguns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2149249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanter Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 And when it comes to Anti Armour, you can always open the top hatch on a Rhino and fire out two Meltaguns. nope, there is just one firepoint. I think you are right. GKLR and PAGK work very well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2149651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteraven17708 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I own 6 LR's, lol, my friends hate my LR gunline in apoc games, i usually have 1 crusader, 1 terminus, and 4 godhammers, but for a 40k game i almost always run 1 crusader and 1 godhammer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2149660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
guillaume Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 With my current 1500 list, I include 1 LRcrusader and 1 godhammer dreadnought. I also have sisters with MM in a rhino. This basically gives me 2 MM shots and 1LC shot...not too bad. At the same time, my termies have gone from wandering around to getting in the truck and slaughtering units. Great fun. I used to play a GH LR and a GH dread, but having tried the crusader, i never went back. It seems to suit the Grey knights very well in 5th where the game feels a little faster. Plus, there is nothing like a crusader going on a rampage. Very 40K, whereas the GH LR is too static and protracted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2149781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon_77 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I run 2 GHLR and 1 LRC, and I think you all may be using your GHLR wrong. In the Way of the Water Warrior, they were static, long range shooty units. In the changes for 5th however, the only change I found I needed to make was to make them more mobile... after all just because a Lascannon has a 48' range does not mean you have to be at max range all the time. Nine times out of ten, the LRC draws SO much fire (because everyone knows just how bad ass it is) that its really the GHLR's that do a lot of the dirty work, I.e. Sneeking around to objectives, being a good troop transport, etc. I do think that the LRC is probably the better unit, but its for that very reason that everyone throws the sink at it, and thus really only lasts 2-3 turns anyway, sometimes less. I'm seriously contemplating just painting a big target on it, because that is exactely what happens to it. I use that reaction by my oppenents to my advantage on the field, and thus though my LRC is the better unit on paper, the units that get the job done is far and away are my GHLR's Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2149942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 And when it comes to Anti Armour, you can always open the top hatch on a Rhino and fire out two Meltaguns. nope, there is just one firepoint. I think you are right. GKLR and PAGK work very well. Please see my post in the Gotcha FAQ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2149954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lungboy Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I'll be playing in a weekend-long scenario soon, and i'm trying to build my list but this very question has cropped up. I need to make 2 lists, 750 and 1250; i'm allowed no Raiders in the 750, and only 1 in the 1250. I'll be facing armies ranging from Daemons to Nurgle CSM to Traitor Guard and Eldar. The list can't be tailored between games. I will probably have 1 or 2 TLLC/ML Dreads too. So, do i take Godhammer, LRC or the rather spiffy GK Redeemer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2150058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 You take the LRC. Always. ;) I can't believe you have comp limits on your army list. ;) That is just stupid for a tournament. So let your dreads supply you with longer range firepower. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2150282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lungboy Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It's not a tournament, it's a story driven campaign amongst a group of mates. Anything deemed even slightly beardy, like a Raider in a 750pt list is a strict no-go. Why would you take the LRC over the Vraks Redeemer? Wouldn't a group of GKT assaulting out of the Redeemer with Psyk-out grenades, being backed up by the Incinerator Flamestorms be a better option? The only thing in my mind stopping it from being a no-brainer is the lack of Multi Melta option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2150294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Matteo Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 i never understood how a LRC is a better anti tank then the regular crusaider. in most of my games i've played the raider usually survives but is either imobilised a couple times or just weapons blown off. since the crusaider only has one anti tank gun its usally the first gun to go. i take 2 regular, and 1 crusaider for most games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2150708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
archonbrujah Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Not currently using raiders in my Daemonhunters, own 1 for Ultras, 1 for Deathwing, and a crusader for my templars. So far I've had the best luck with the bare bones LR with the Deathwing, but part of that is likely the sick amount of fire the list puts out. Crusader rocks, but I don;t really like the idea of using the outdated one in the DH codex, makes my head hust to have different rules for the dame tank...... Luckliy I field the most armor in my little group, so AT is not usually an issue. Archonbrujah Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2150803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marid Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 You take the LRC. Always. :) I can't believe you have comp limits on your army list. :) That is just stupid for a tournament. So let your dreads supply you with longer range firepower. That's especially annoying for a codex with only a few options like ours. :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2151194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 It's not a tournament, it's a story driven campaign amongst a group of mates. Anything deemed even slightly beardy, like a Raider in a 750pt list is a strict no-go. How gimped does your ancient 3rd edition codex have to be to satisfy your mates? Are Space Wolf Rune Priests or Thunderwolf Cavalry/HQs outright banned as well? Eldar Harlequins, perhaps? I understand the sentiment, but it's a very slippery slope to arbitrarily decide what is or isn't "beardy". IMHO, it's best to just "man up" and deal with what people expect to bring. Let the arms race begin! It's not like two land raiders at 750 pts isn't beatable. It's just a very big rock. Sacrifice a couple of melta-toting units to drop them and you -- the double raider guy -- is toast. "Beard" is in the eye of the beholder. ;) Just my personal opinion. Don't read any more into it than that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2151638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asher Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Not much left to say as everyone has made stellar points. I would say that if you are only going to have 1 Land Raider, than make it a Crusader. If you're going to have two, than one of each is a nice set-up. Another point, although Lascannons seem to have fallen as the preferred anti-tank weapon, I like the GH for popping AV10 and AV11 transports and walkers. I save AV13 and AV14 for Melta IST's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2151762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lungboy Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 It's not a tournament, it's a story driven campaign amongst a group of mates. Anything deemed even slightly beardy, like a Raider in a 750pt list is a strict no-go. How gimped does your ancient 3rd edition codex have to be to satisfy your mates? Are Space Wolf Rune Priests or Thunderwolf Cavalry/HQs outright banned as well? Eldar Harlequins, perhaps? I understand the sentiment, but it's a very slippery slope to arbitrarily decide what is or isn't "beardy". IMHO, it's best to just "man up" and deal with what people expect to bring. Let the arms race begin! It's not like two land raiders at 750 pts isn't beatable. It's just a very big rock. Sacrifice a couple of melta-toting units to drop them and you -- the double raider guy -- is toast. "Beard" is in the eye of the beholder. :thanks: Just my personal opinion. Don't read any more into it than that. That's all fair comment, but we tend to label "beardy" as anything that would make your army un-fun to play against. As such, stuff like Nob bikerz with all diff kit for wound allocation shenanigans would probably not be allowed, whilst Harlequins would be fine. I've no idea how daft the SW stuff can be made, so can't comment on that. Fighting 3 min troop units that hide in AV14 would be pretty lame if you're on the other side and haven't built your army to face it. For the same reason (making the game fun) i doubt i'll field a Sanctuary Inquisitor, even though it would totally screw over the opposing Daemon player. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181461-the-great-landraider-debate/#findComment-2151856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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