Really expensive boss on big wolf, running with small wolves

[Token]

Iv put together a list that is led by a really really big boss at ~280p, with that big wolf +1t, etc, upgrade, storm shield and runic armor. Would he have less chanse of making it into close combat (running), if he is leading a pack of wolves? im not 100% on how the rules for mixed armor and mixed t work.. As it is now i have given him two wolf companions. Could those just as well be the cheaper wolves from a wolf pack?

So, running alone, or running with wolves? Which is better?

[dudelord]

Theres no mixed armour anymore (cause wounds get allocated directly) but there is majority toughness. By having 2 wolves with him, it means he'll take wounds at toughness 4... which wastes his T5. If you can stick him with 1 TWC and 2 wolves, toughness will be even (which means the higher toughness is used) and you can allocate wounds onto the Wolves despite them taking wounds at T5. At least I think thats how this works.

[Token]

hm, i read the rules for allocating rules, looks kinda complicated, atleast for space wolves where you have diffirent units all around, with wulfen, shooting weapons, cc weapons.. And the elite wolf guards, where every modell can be diffirent..

[rodgers37]

I was looking at doing a Thunderwolf Lord with Saga of the Hunter, so he could outflank :)

(i don't think this, but with saga of hunter, would his unit get outflank? or would he have to be solo, i didn't see anything saying the unit got it, so i guess not, but it would be cool, a unit of Thunderwolves outflanking :P (which i think they should have for a 50pt model...)

[dublindawg]

I was looking at doing a Thunderwolf Lord with Saga of the Hunter, so he could outflank :D

(i don't think this, but with saga of hunter, would his unit get outflank? or would he have to be solo, i didn't see anything saying the unit got it, so i guess not, but it would be cool, a unit of Thunderwolves outflanking :D (which i think they should have for a 50pt model...)

 

I thought of this as well, but the Saga of the Hunter can be taken by "infantry" units only. Once you give a WL a TWM they become cavalry and cannot take that Saga. :(

[rodgers37]

I was looking at doing a Thunderwolf Lord with Saga of the Hunter, so he could outflank :D

(i don't think this, but with saga of hunter, would his unit get outflank? or would he have to be solo, i didn't see anything saying the unit got it, so i guess not, but it would be cool, a unit of Thunderwolves outflanking :D (which i think they should have for a 50pt model...)

 

I thought of this as well, but the Saga of the Hunter can be taken by "infantry" units only. Once you give a WL a TWM they become cavalry and cannot take that Saga. :(

#you can, its says only in power armour and not with bike or jet back, nothing about TW mount.... i was on about the unit getting it....

[Token]

What do you think if the thunderwolves being given storm hammer and storm shield? Its alot of points, but should draw alot of fire.

[dublindawg]

I was looking at doing a Thunderwolf Lord with Saga of the Hunter, so he could outflank :D

(i don't think this, but with saga of hunter, would his unit get outflank? or would he have to be solo, i didn't see anything saying the unit got it, so i guess not, but it would be cool, a unit of Thunderwolves outflanking :D (which i think they should have for a 50pt model...)

 

I thought of this as well, but the Saga of the Hunter can be taken by "infantry" units only. Once you give a WL a TWM they become cavalry and cannot take that Saga. :(

#you can, its says only in power armour and not with bike or jet back, nothing about TW mount.... i was on about the unit getting it....

 

Don't have the dex with me, but look at the entry for TWM, it says that models given a TWM become Cavalry for all intents and purposes. Therefore the WL as an IC would become a "Cavalry" unit and then not eligible for SotH as the Saga states it can only be taken by models classified as "Infantry" units.

[Lokkan Of The Long Hall]

I was looking at doing a Thunderwolf Lord with Saga of the Hunter, so he could outflank :D

(i don't think this, but with saga of hunter, would his unit get outflank? or would he have to be solo, i didn't see anything saying the unit got it, so i guess not, but it would be cool, a unit of Thunderwolves outflanking :D (which i think they should have for a 50pt model...)

 

I thought of this as well, but the Saga of the Hunter can be taken by "infantry" units only. Once you give a WL a TWM they become cavalry and cannot take that Saga. :(

#you can, its says only in power armour and not with bike or jet back, nothing about TW mount.... i was on about the unit getting it....

 

Don't have the dex with me, but look at the entry for TWM, it says that models given a TWM become Cavalry for all intents and purposes. Therefore the WL as an IC would become a "Cavalry" unit and then not eligible for SotH as the Saga states it can only be taken by models classified as "Infantry" units.

 

Second that, it says specifically that the character takes the unit type of cavalry.

[Redbaron997]

What about a Big Thunderwolf Character with Thunderhammer and Saga of Wolking with a Full unit of Wolves (15)

 

That would be a bunch of I5 attacks and the Character with the Thunderhammer for big things. He has 15 t4 wounds to get through before you can get him with shooting.

 

Would that work well?

[dudelord]

That would be fearsome in close combat, but the problem is, I don't think it'd see combat too often. While 15 t4 models to shoot through isn't too bad, they only have a 6+ save so a couple rounds of normal shooting will eat through them in a hurry.

Running another 10 man squad infront of them to give em a 4+ meat shield could help in that regard, but flanking units, ordanance and templates in general will still cause some pain.

 

That being said, if you've got enough to distract him (drop pods, scouts, rhino/LR borne crazies), then he won't have time to devout enough firepower to decimate the unit in front and then your Lord, but then your using 200 pts worth of wolves to deliver him to combat, so i'd probably take a weapon to maintain Initiative in case the wolves all die, so your lord isn't by himself launching attacks last.

[merlonc]

I am looking at a big wolf lord joined to an Iron priest on thunderwolf with 4 cyberwolves as a unit. Pricey but hits really hard. I will give the lord a frost blade as the iron priest has thunder hammer and powerfist attacks already. For more numbers give the lord two normal wolves of his own. With Wolfkin that potentially 22 st 4 I5 attacks, 7 st 6 I5 attacks, 4 st 10, 1 st 8 I1 attacks on the charge. Drop a full pod or run a couple full rhino's of BC or GH down to give the opponent something to worry about close to home and you should get there fairly well.

 

It works out to 405 points

[Morticon]

That would be fearsome in close combat, but the problem is, I don't think it'd see combat too often. While 15 t4 models to shoot through isn't too bad, they only have a 6+ save so a couple rounds of normal shooting will eat through them in a hurry.

Running another 10 man squad infront of them to give em a 4+ meat shield could help in that regard, but flanking units, ordanance and templates in general will still cause some pain.

 

That being said, if you've got enough to distract him (drop pods, scouts, rhino/LR borne crazies), then he won't have time to devout enough firepower to decimate the unit in front and then your Lord, but then your using 200 pts worth of wolves to deliver him to combat, so i'd probably take a weapon to maintain Initiative in case the wolves all die, so your lord isn't by himself launching attacks last.

 

With an 18-24" charge zone - you only need to weather one round of shooting before youre in combat. 4+ cover should be easy enough to get.

 

Additionally, flanking units will only come on in the 2nd turn and you can account for that. Also, if youre going first, then by 2nd turn you can be in combat already. Ordnance and templates dont ignore cover (unless its barrage) so youre still safe there. 15 wolves is only 120 points - so i reckon youd be seeing combat a lot more often than one would initially think.

 

The 280 point big boy however is quite an investment.

[Silvtalon]

I was looking at doing a Thunderwolf Lord with Saga of the Hunter, so he could outflank :)

(i don't think this, but with saga of hunter, would his unit get outflank? or would he have to be solo, i didn't see anything saying the unit got it, so i guess not, but it would be cool, a unit of Thunderwolves outflanking :) (which i think they should have for a 50pt model...)

 

I thought of this as well, but the Saga of the Hunter can be taken by "infantry" units only. Once you give a WL a TWM they become cavalry and cannot take that Saga. :(

#you can, its says only in power armour and not with bike or jet back, nothing about TW mount.... i was on about the unit getting it....

 

 

Sorry but the thunderwolf mount changes unit type to cavalry so you can not take that saga.. Cavalry is not infantry

[dudelord]

That would be fearsome in close combat, but the problem is, I don't think it'd see combat too often. While 15 t4 models to shoot through isn't too bad, they only have a 6+ save so a couple rounds of normal shooting will eat through them in a hurry.

Running another 10 man squad infront of them to give em a 4+ meat shield could help in that regard, but flanking units, ordanance and templates in general will still cause some pain.

 

That being said, if you've got enough to distract him (drop pods, scouts, rhino/LR borne crazies), then he won't have time to devout enough firepower to decimate the unit in front and then your Lord, but then your using 200 pts worth of wolves to deliver him to combat, so i'd probably take a weapon to maintain Initiative in case the wolves all die, so your lord isn't by himself launching attacks last.

 

With an 18-24" charge zone - you only need to weather one round of shooting before youre in combat. 4+ cover should be easy enough to get.

 

Additionally, flanking units will only come on in the 2nd turn and you can account for that. Also, if youre going first, then by 2nd turn you can be in combat already. Ordnance and templates dont ignore cover (unless its barrage) so youre still safe there. 15 wolves is only 120 points - so i reckon youd be seeing combat a lot more often than one would initially think.

 

The 280 point big boy however is quite an investment.

 

Yeah my bad, I was thinking of a few small differences, and it turned out to be a very incorrect post lol.

 

My adding up for the wolves also included a 10 man unit to hide behind btw, and I completely forgot the 19-24" charge zone. With the comments about flankers and templates, I was more saying that you'd have to be careful in your use of the unit, rather than saying they cancelled out the unit completely, sorry if I didn't explain that properly.

I also tried fielding a similar unit to this (cheaper WGBL, and only 12 wolves), and my opponent dropped an Assualt cannon heavy flamer dread right next to me... roasted and gunned a good number of the wolves, and then my Str6 WGBL had a hard time doing anything to his Dread. So I was probably more commenting from a bad experience than anything else.

 

Edit - In hindsight it really wasn't a good idea to charge the dreadnought... The rest of the battle went okay-ish (1-1-contested draw), and I suppose denying him the use of the Dread to drop near another objective was good, and preventing it from attack my other units, but the points difference was a bit much

[rodgers37]

I was looking at doing a Thunderwolf Lord with Saga of the Hunter, so he could outflank :lol:

(i don't think this, but with saga of hunter, would his unit get outflank? or would he have to be solo, i didn't see anything saying the unit got it, so i guess not, but it would be cool, a unit of Thunderwolves outflanking :lol: (which i think they should have for a 50pt model...)

 

I thought of this as well, but the Saga of the Hunter can be taken by "infantry" units only. Once you give a WL a TWM they become cavalry and cannot take that Saga. ;)

#you can, its says only in power armour and not with bike or jet back, nothing about TW mount.... i was on about the unit getting it....

 

 

Sorry but the thunderwolf mount changes unit type to cavalry so you can not take that saga.. Cavalry is not infantry

 

I was reading the bit under the battle ground leader one, and it says can't be taken when not in power armour or on a bike or jetpack, nothign about the thunderwolf.....so why does the doex have to be so crap to contradict its self everywhere? why are GW so crap, they don't deserve there stuff to be bought....

[Grey Mage]

I was looking at doing a Thunderwolf Lord with Saga of the Hunter, so he could outflank :D

(i don't think this, but with saga of hunter, would his unit get outflank? or would he have to be solo, i didn't see anything saying the unit got it, so i guess not, but it would be cool, a unit of Thunderwolves outflanking :D (which i think they should have for a 50pt model...)

 

I thought of this as well, but the Saga of the Hunter can be taken by "infantry" units only. Once you give a WL a TWM they become cavalry and cannot take that Saga. :(

#you can, its says only in power armour and not with bike or jet back, nothing about TW mount.... i was on about the unit getting it....

 

 

Sorry but the thunderwolf mount changes unit type to cavalry so you can not take that saga.. Cavalry is not infantry

 

I was reading the bit under the battle ground leader one, and it says can't be taken when not in power armour or on a bike or jetpack, nothign about the thunderwolf.....so why does the doex have to be so crap to contradict its self everywhere? why are GW so crap, they don't deserve there stuff to be bought....

Yeah... because no other company has ever forgotten to relist every restriction and core rule every time.

 

It was a good idea, it might get FAQd back into existance... but cool your jets ok?

[Lokkan Of The Long Hall]

It's because a Thunderwold gives you Cavlary, but a Bike or Jetpack stays as Infantry, which the Hunter can only be taken by. Cruel, I was really excited about outflanking 4 thunderwolves before I worked it out.

[rodgers37]

I was looking at doing a Thunderwolf Lord with Saga of the Hunter, so he could outflank :D

(i don't think this, but with saga of hunter, would his unit get outflank? or would he have to be solo, i didn't see anything saying the unit got it, so i guess not, but it would be cool, a unit of Thunderwolves outflanking :D (which i think they should have for a 50pt model...)

 

I thought of this as well, but the Saga of the Hunter can be taken by "infantry" units only. Once you give a WL a TWM they become cavalry and cannot take that Saga. :(

#you can, its says only in power armour and not with bike or jet back, nothing about TW mount.... i was on about the unit getting it....

 

 

Sorry but the thunderwolf mount changes unit type to cavalry so you can not take that saga.. Cavalry is not infantry

 

I was reading the bit under the battle ground leader one, and it says can't be taken when not in power armour or on a bike or jetpack, nothign about the thunderwolf.....so why does the doex have to be so crap to contradict its self everywhere? why are GW so crap, they don't deserve there stuff to be bought....

Yeah... because no other company has ever forgotten to relist every restriction and core rule every time.

 

It was a good idea, it might get FAQd back into existance... but cool your jets ok?

 

Yeah i just codex contradictions, and rule contradictions,even when they do my way (such as killing the Keeper with 4 wounds, with JOTWW, when Daemons are imune to instant death....oh but its not instant death, its removed from play... i could just not use it, but i wanted to see wha Njal was like.....)

And there all quite simple (there is another mistake in the codex, with wargear, for i think its a rune priest piece of wargear, and it says go to Wolf lord or priest page....)

[Morticon]

Not to sound too condescending, but these are not contradictions or rules loopholes (those also exist- for sure. But this isnt one of em).

 

Its a very plain rule mechanic. People all too often make decisions and conclusions based on facts that are not complete.

 

 

And as for instant death, that really does appear to be the whole point. No dex has used "killed outright" or "removed from play" for a good few years now.

Additionally,

the nid dex is already done.

Which means that they must have play tested this against the new nids. If synapse stays the same (dont see why not) then this power and a few other wolfy abilities have obviously been written in to be able to withstand that nastiness.

[Gentlemanloser]

For the points of a WL/WGBL on a TWM, you might just as well buy some TWC instead.

 

More Attacks, More Wounds, and true S/T5 with Rending special Weapons.

 

Fenrisian Wolves are utterly /meh. Too low a Leadership and a 6+ save means looking at them harshly removes them from play. Without the Saga of the Wolfkin somewhere, you really need to attach an IC to a squad, to stop them running off the board at the first sight of damage, but for 40 points minimum for a Squad, and a minimum of 120 points for a bare WGBL on a TWM, you can have 3 TWC. A far more durable unit.

 

(Edit: Especially considering you're wasting the WL/WGBL's T5, as the majority T4 of the Wolves would be used versus shooting. If you really want an IC/Wolve mixed unit, take an IP with 4 Cyberwolves.)

[Token]

Perhaps the cavalry option with thunder hammer and storm shield can be really dangerous too.. And that is alot of less points. But i like the boss version too.