confused_gordy Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It seems to me that almost every post I read has someone suggesting a storm shield and thunder hammer. The storm shield, in most cases is an excellent tool, for damage avoidance. The thing that confuses me, is why everyone seems to love the thunder hammer so much? Looking at it, it is a strength doubling weapon, that stuns vehicles and makes the enemy init 1 in the next round, for 1.5 times the cost of a power fist My question is, why do so many people seem compelled to use thunder hammers? In my opinion they are exceptionally situational, and less effective than an equally costed chain fist. Perhaps it is because people are so used to the combination? I say to all those who wish to break the mould and disillusion themselves of the thunder hammer yoke! Power fists work just as well 95% of the time and will cost much less if you swap all the hammers for power fists, and if you really dont want to save the points, use a chain fist which is much much better some of the time and probably worse about 1% of the time. Just something that worries me when I see all these thunder hammer posts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmwulf Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 While Hammers look a lot cooler then chainfists and powerfists I agree that the fists have more use for their points. I will still be fielding a few TH models just for the BAM. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Howland Greywolf Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 When you start playing armies that contain T5 models then you will see the joy if the thunder hammer. And besides they are cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It seems to me that almost every post I read has someone suggesting a storm shield and thunder hammer. The storm shield, in most cases is an excellent tool, for damage avoidance. The thing that confuses me, is why everyone seems to love the thunder hammer so much? Looking at it, it is a strength doubling weapon, that stuns vehicles and makes the enemy init 1 in the next round, for 1.5 times the cost of a power fist My question is, why do so many people seem compelled to use thunder hammers? In my opinion they are exceptionally situational, and less effective than an equally costed chain fist. Perhaps it is because people are so used to the combination? I say to all those who wish to break the mould and disillusion themselves of the thunder hammer yoke! Power fists work just as well 95% of the time and will cost much less if you swap all the hammers for power fists, and if you really dont want to save the points, use a chain fist which is much much better some of the time and probably worse about 1% of the time. Just something that worries me when I see all these thunder hammer posts. Thunder Hammer Yoke? Thers two spots that have the 50% increase your talkinga bout- lone wolves and wolf gaurd. Lone wolves- its nice to know that since youve survived one round of CC with the giant beasty your gauranteed to get to hit something in round 2 isnt it? Wolf Gaurd- Thunderhammers just look awesome, and for 5pts to add stunned to whatever other damage you do... well if it slows down an ork warboss for ONE turn its made its points back for three games. If it stops a LRR from turning and hitting me with a flamestorm cannon its made its points back for 20 games. Chainfists are better against vehicles about half the time, and better against monstrous creatures and T6 never. Wich makes the Thunderhammer better in about 2/3 of the situations, if not more, that Ill ever use them in. Because frankly my shooting should be killing most of the tanks I run across, if not all but 1% of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosPhoenix Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 We've had the discussion there too http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=181212 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 We've had the discussion there too http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=181212 I thought! this sounded familiar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 In the end its cause they look so awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draketh Firewind Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It is also upon the fact that with the current model molds you can't model a miniture to have a Storm Shield and Fist of anytype due to the Sheilds and the fists being on the same arm. The Thunder hammers are modeled on the storm bolter arm/heavy weapons arm so you could do a Power fist Thunder hammer or a storm shield Assualt cannon but no Storm Shield power fist really.....also in the Wolf termie box you can get a really cool pose with thunder hammer storm shield anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It is also upon the fact that with the current model molds you can't model a miniture to have a Storm Shield and Fist of anytype due to the Sheilds and the fists being on the same arm. The Thunder hammers are modeled on the storm bolter arm/heavy weapons arm so you could do a Power fist Thunder hammer or a storm shield Assualt cannon but no Storm Shield power fist really.....also in the Wolf termie box you can get a really cool pose with thunder hammer storm shield anyway. Oh, I made it work-- A stormshield is just a 25mm Base with the edging removed and a wolf insignia slapped on... glue that to a bolter holding arm from a standard tactical marine... and your set. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgers37 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 yeah it isn't hard to put the SS on the other arm.... use one of the arms that has nothing on the end of it (i think its for a thunder hammer?) and put the SS there, use a bit of green stuff and chopping to make it look like a proper hand, not an upside down one (and there is 1/2 of the SS that look just as good upside down..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draketh Firewind Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Yeah but unlike you two there are quite a few people who are lazy, like me, and well how would you do it on the terminator wolf guard where it would probably put to more use then on a power armoured Wolf guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Yeah but unlike you two there are quite a few people who are lazy, like me, and well how would you do it on the terminator wolf guard where it would probably put to more use then on a power armoured Wolf guard. Lop of the Stormbolter, use some parts of sprue to make "handles" coming up from the arm with a bit of superglue, trim the edges off a 25mm base, afix it to the hand, afix a wolficon to the base... call it a day. Smooth top bases being better than etched bases IMHO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
antique_nova Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 EDIT: i meant storm shields if anyone saw the comment. sorry! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I always thought the Titanhammer datasheet would have been *much* better off using Terminators with Chain Fists instead of Thunderhammers... Plus, you could model your Chain Firs to look like a massive oversized Chainsword, and claim they're Eviscerators, which work exactly the same way. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 thunder hammers are better against tanks, they can stop it in its tracks, so it cant shoot and then you get to shoot it and assault it again. PF good against mass troops TH good against IC also. ill pay more points for something that will do what I need it to when I need it to do it, and less points for things to kill troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 TH are rubbish versus tanks! :D What decent Tank doesn't have Extra Armour these days. Not being able to move just means it can fire all it's weapons at you! ;) (The TH's best use is to hit a MC/Walker with one, so you make them go at I1 in the next CC. Or you've got a DH one, and you 'stunlock' the MC/Walker until it dies...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 TH are rubbish versus tanks! :D What decent Tank doesn't have Extra Armour these days. Not being able to move just means it can fire all it's weapons at you! ;) (The TH's best use is to hit a MC/Walker with one, so you make them go at I1 in the next CC. Or you've got a DH one, and you 'stunlock' the MC/Walker until it dies...) extra armor just allows you to be shaken, so you can move but not shoot. either way the tank isnt shooting at you. and i dont budget in points for extra armor since most of my tanks die after their job is done, which is dropping off dudes at your door step. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Gah! I always get that wrong. To used to PotMS. :D Still you shake them, they move the Tank away, so if it's not fast (or you don't have 12" move) and you catch it, your still rolling 6's to hit. A CF with 2d6 Penetration is much better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 but your saying that EVERY tank has extra armor which is not the case, and even if they move away guess what, its usually AWAY from you. I wouldnt move to where a TH could attack me again, even if they needed 6s to hit (which only happens if they move over 6 inches). and usually im going to assault something that I already put shots into anyway, which means that I have hurt it somehow, and it may not be moving anymore anyway.!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpsilver Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 TH are rubbish versus tanks! ;) What decent Tank doesn't have Extra Armour these days. Not being able to move just means it can fire all it's weapons at you! ;) (The TH's best use is to hit a MC/Walker with one, so you make them go at I1 in the next CC. Or you've got a DH one, and you 'stunlock' the MC/Walker until it dies...) You'll be surprised how many people don't equip their armored vehicles with extra armour. If you had say, 3 Rhinos, and 2 Predators each with Extra armour, that's 75pts. You could buy a Lone Wolf in Terminator armour with a pair of Wolfclaws... Or 2 rhinos... or 2 Razorbacks (nearly) for that much. What a waste. The Thunder Hammer would be best against transports... since most transports don't carry a huge array of devastating weaponry... For example Rhinos... Usually it's just the stormbolter. A turn of non moving equals a turn of the whole squad having to exit the Transport and move, via footslog... which means they don't get the benefit of the Rhino... or it could be that they decide to sit put and wait for the turn after when they can move the rhino towards their objective... either way it's a turn of stopping that transport doing what it does best... transport.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 yeah it isn't hard to put the SS on the other arm.... use one of the arms that has nothing on the end of it (i think its for a thunder hammer?) and put the SS there, use a bit of green stuff and chopping to make it look like a proper hand, not an upside down one (and there is 1/2 of the SS that look just as good upside down..... I used one of the old nilla Thammer arms and placed the SS on it. I'll GS a handle and maybe a "belt" that fastens on the fore arm (sorry don't know technical term) and I'm a terrible GS'er. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It all depends on the vehicle. Most have 10 rear armour so die in CC anyway, no matter which weapon you use. But for those tough hitting ones (like Raiders, with Extra Armour and POTMS), the TH isn't as effective as a Chain Fist. Or a Power Fist, where the penetration doesn't count. And no one really cares about taking a TH to pop a Rhino. ;) THs shine in CC versus Walkers/MCs, but they aren't the best choice (although the game seems to try to make them be...) versus vehicles. A turn of non moving equals a turn of the whole squad having to exit the Transport and move, via footslog... If you're using a Rhino as transport to get a unit into CC you buy it Extra Armour. It's foolish not to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Tanks? But tyranids don't have tanks... Hency why THs are very useful to me since I play bugs and space elves more than anything else. It's a really dumb Eldar player that let's you get within charge range of his tanks, and stunning MCs to I1 is sweet... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2149964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I like to carry both, thats why I am using Mr. Rockfist. Which by the way I took down a greater demon because I threw the hammer caused 1 wound and during the NEXT assault phase he went at INT 1. So I assaulted him and got all my +1 re rolling goodness and it got dead while the rock got 1 wound and lived. Seriously though, I would rather have a CF on a unit that is made to bust tanks/dreads. In a DP I take 5 GH with MG and a WG in TDA with CM/CF. Very effective tank busting unit that is not crazy in cost. another tip for new players is if you do use a TH against a Walker, remember any hit will make the walker loose an attack the following turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2150045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prototype Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Which by the way I took down a greater demon because I threw the hammer caused 1 wound and during the NEXT assault phase he went at INT 1. So I assaulted him and got all my +1 re rolling goodness and it got dead while the rock got 1 wound and lived. I'm surely no expert, but I'm uncertain if the ranged attack from his hammer still causes the Thunder Hammer's stun effect.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181595-the-thunderhammer-myth/#findComment-2150097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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