MechSpacewulf Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 OK, My buddy has been thinking way too much about this and asked me to post this question, my answer to him is NO however am I missing something? "On page 95 of the rule book it says "in that turns assault phase ,however units may not launch an assault{even if they have fleet special rule}, unless clearly stated in their special rules". My group says that the blood claws berzek charge says must charge if with in range,means they have to charge. Must means must even when disembarking from a Rhino or Drop Pod." Thoughts, opinions, and statements for my battle brother. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Units can not charge the turn they deep strike without a special rule to override that. Blood Claws don't have a special rule to override the deepstrike restirction. Likewise, they can not charge if they fire a rapid fire weapon, or get out of a rhino/razorback after it moved. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mar Bloodaxe Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 But the rules for drop pods explicitly state that there is no charging after disembarking. Must charge if able to. Disembarking from a drop pod and charging is forbidden. So sorry no charging. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Blood Claws don't have a special rule to override the deepstrike restirction. The question is whether or not Berzerker Charge is such a special rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Blood Claws don't have a special rule to override the deepstrike restirction. The question is whether or not Berzerker Charge is such a special rule. Does it say it overrides the restriction (like Vanguard Veterans do?) No. It doesn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mar Bloodaxe Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Blood Claws don't have a special rule to override the deepstrike restirction. The question is whether or not Berzerker Charge is such a special rule. Does Berserk charge implicitly state that BC can charge after a deepstrike or from exiting a non-open topped vehicle? If it does then charge all you want. If it doesn't then I'd say no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 must charge IF ABLE to. cannot charge out of a moving transport (other then LRs). so no DP/Rhino/Rzbk Bc cannot charge in those cases, and would not be able to shoot either IIRC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Think about it in this logical sequence. Movement Phase The Blood Claws move, either walking, Deep Striking from a Drop Pod, or moving via and disembarking from a Transport. Shooting Phase Before you shoot any weapons or run, look at your Blood Claws unit. Are they within 6" of an enemy unit? (as per the rules, you would be able to measure this before any shooting is declared.) If yes, is there anything that might preclude them from charging (re: disembarking from a moving transport, or entering play via Drop Pod)? Assault Phase If there has been nothing to preclude them from charging (as considered above in the Shooting Phase), the Blood Claws may assault/charge anything in range. The key line is, on page 25, this (emphasis mine): The pack must attempt to launch an assault in the ensuing Assault phase if at all possible... DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Well said DV8. I've played wolf players who want to fire blood claws plasmaguns at a nearby unit that isn't the closest then say they have to charge the closest and charge a new unit, despite the rapid firing restriction and the charge what you shot restriction, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Well said DV8. I've played wolf players who want to fire blood claws plasmaguns at a nearby unit that isn't the closest then say they have to charge the closest and charge a new unit, despite the rapid firing restriction and the charge what you shot restriction, Yea those scrupulous and shifty "Wolf" players have no honor, and aren't real Space Wolves. They should be stripped of title/rank and thrown into the winter-cold of Fenris to face the judgment of the were and the wulfen. :lol: DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the great beaver Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 can't always beats must. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Well said DV8. I've played wolf players who want to fire blood claws plasmaguns at a nearby unit that isn't the closest then say they have to charge the closest and charge a new unit, despite the rapid firing restriction and the charge what you shot restriction, dammit, more reports of those chaos wolves... you know the ones they made up in the last C:CSM to go along with their frankly preposterous idea that 'apparantly' huron blackheart made a whole bunch of wolves repent their oathes... now they are tryng to ruin the good name we have built up of the last decade+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechSpacewulf Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Thanks, Remember that units can move, shoot and assult from a vehicle they have disembarked from that has not moved. Thanks for the input. so disembark 2", move up to 6", shoot assault weapons, charge in and assault up to 6"= 14" potential Think about it in this logical sequence. Movement Phase The Blood Claws move, either walking, Deep Striking from a Drop Pod, or moving via and disembarking from a Transport. Shooting Phase Before you shoot any weapons or run, look at your Blood Claws unit. Are they within 6" of an enemy unit? (as per the rules, you would be able to measure this before any shooting is declared.) If yes, is there anything that might preclude them from charging (re: disembarking from a moving transport, or entering play via Drop Pod)? Assault Phase If there has been nothing to preclude them from charging (as considered above in the Shooting Phase), the Blood Claws may assault/charge anything in range. The key line is, on page 25, this (emphasis mine): The pack must attempt to launch an assault in the ensuing Assault phase if at all possible... DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolflordhicks Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Thanks, Remember that units can move, shoot and assult from a vehicle they have disembarked from that has not moved. Thanks for the input. so disembark 2", move up to 6", shoot assault weapons, charge in and assault up to 6"= 14" potential Think about it in this logical sequence. Movement Phase The Blood Claws move, either walking, Deep Striking from a Drop Pod, or moving via and disembarking from a Transport. Shooting Phase Before you shoot any weapons or run, look at your Blood Claws unit. Are they within 6" of an enemy unit? (as per the rules, you would be able to measure this before any shooting is declared.) If yes, is there anything that might preclude them from charging (re: disembarking from a moving transport, or entering play via Drop Pod)? Assault Phase If there has been nothing to preclude them from charging (as considered above in the Shooting Phase), the Blood Claws may assault/charge anything in range. If in range the blood claws would have to (if they were in a rhino) disembark to charge the closest unit in the assault phase correct? they would not have a choice unless a wolf guard etc is with the unit to override their rule The key line is, on page 25, this (emphasis mine): The pack must attempt to launch an assault in the ensuing Assault phase if at all possible... DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Thanks, Remember that units can move, shoot and assult from a vehicle they have disembarked from that has not moved. Thanks for the input. so disembark 2", move up to 6", shoot assault weapons, charge in and assault up to 6"= 14" potential Think about it in this logical sequence. Movement Phase The Blood Claws move, either walking, Deep Striking from a Drop Pod, or moving via and disembarking from a Transport. Shooting Phase Before you shoot any weapons or run, look at your Blood Claws unit. Are they within 6" of an enemy unit? (as per the rules, you would be able to measure this before any shooting is declared.) If yes, is there anything that might preclude them from charging (re: disembarking from a moving transport, or entering play via Drop Pod)? Assault Phase If there has been nothing to preclude them from charging (as considered above in the Shooting Phase), the Blood Claws may assault/charge anything in range. If in range the blood claws would have to (if they were in a rhino) disembark to charge the closest unit in the assault phase correct? they would not have a choice unless a wolf guard etc is with the unit to override their rule The key line is, on page 25, this (emphasis mine): The pack must attempt to launch an assault in the ensuing Assault phase if at all possible... DV8 Why do people do this? Quote verbatim someone else's post and add nothing to the discussion at hand, if nothing else just to get your post count up. Quality of posts, not quantity, is what counts. If you have nothing to add, don't post at all. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 The pack must attempt to launch an assault in the ensuing Assault phase if at all possible... Just because a unit of Blood Claws is within 6" of an enemy unit does not mean that all the conditions that would allow them to assault have been met. So no assaulting after deep strike or assaulting after disembarkation from a moving vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 K i might of missed something but some one said "shoot assault weapons".... not with the the blood claws, if they are within 6 inches of an enemy they forgo their shooting phase. which raises my question of: if i put my bloodclaws in a drop pod and they end up within 6 inches of an enemy can they still shoot? remember pistols count as assault 1 now.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Well since you can't assault when deploying out of a drop pod you ignore the Headstrong rule (since you can't assault out of a drop pod) and can I think therefore shoot in the shooting phase that the drop pod lands. The main reason is because since a unit can't "prepare for a charge" they can't mount...... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 K i might of missed something but some one said "shoot assault weapons".... not with the the blood claws, if they are within 6 inches of an enemy they forgo their shooting phase. which raises my question of: if i put my bloodclaws in a drop pod and they end up within 6 inches of an enemy can they still shoot? remember pistols count as assault 1 now.... I would say that the Headstrong rule is overwritten by the Deep Strike which would also include overwrite the restriction on not being able to shoot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Well said DV8. I've played wolf players who want to fire blood claws plasmaguns at a nearby unit that isn't the closest then say they have to charge the closest and charge a new unit, despite the rapid firing restriction and the charge what you shot restriction, Yea those scrupulous and shifty "Wolf" players have no honor, and aren't real Space Wolves. They should be stripped of title/rank and thrown into the winter-cold of Fenris to face the judgment of the were and the wulfen. :( DV8 Theyre also not playing by the new BC rules. As it specificly states unless they have a babysitter they CANNOT fire if a unit is within 6", wich happens to be there charge range. Its not, they cant fire if theres a unit within 6" unless that unit is- they just cannot fire. UNLESS They have a character with them- be it an IC or a WG. Then, not only can they shoot at whatever they want, they can also assault or not as they please. Because GW noticed the people who took plasmaguns in their packs for the last decade and used them to avoid making unfavorable charges. Honorless, cheating, and hopefully just mistaken and in need of a good lesson. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181638-must-charge-and-bloodclaws/#findComment-2150898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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