Olgerth Istaarn Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I'm curious whether anyone had a chance to run a Wolfguard squad with Rockfist in it. He certainly looks awesome on paper (especially the tossable thunderhammer), but for the price of him you could have two TH/SS terminators and still have some points left over... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorn Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 hahaa he's good. in one game agaist eldar, he killed a wraith lord and the avatar!!! bargin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 He is great, who to run him with, how to deploy him and how to play him is the key to his success. So far I have only run him with a 1 DP force, he joined a GH pack of 8 with banner and MG. 1 Game he and his crew dropped in front of 2 LR and destroyed them both and killed the crews inside with the help of 2 packs of Fen Wolves. The other game I dropped in front of 1 full squad of marines and a Iron Clad Dread, He and the MG immobilized and stunned the Dread in return the marines fired 9 bolters for 18 shots and 2 plasma shots. With some awesome rolling I failed 6 out of 8 saves which forced a leadership test, failed that on a roll of 10 ran 12 inches toward my edge. Next turn a Rhino was put within 6" of him and with a roll of 10 he went off the board without being able to do anything else in the game. He did however kill a Greater Demon in a epic battle that lasted through three rounds of CC. Was nice as I threw the TH caused 1 wound which stunned the Greater Demon and assaulted him reducing his initiative to 1 in the assault round. Just pure bad luck on my part in that second game. Vrox. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 He did however kill a Greater Demon in a epic battle that lasted through three rounds of CC. Was nice as I threw the TH caused 1 wound which stunned the Greater Demon and assaulted him reducing his initiative to 1 in the assault round. You can do that? I didn't know the throw counted as an actual Thunderhammer hit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 He did however kill a Greater Demon in a epic battle that lasted through three rounds of CC. Was nice as I threw the TH caused 1 wound which stunned the Greater Demon and assaulted him reducing his initiative to 1 in the assault round. You can do that? I didn't know the throw counted as an actual Thunderhammer hit. It's a grey area. The Foehammer, for all intents and purposes, is a Thunderhammer (with all it's rules and effects), but also has a ranged profile. The way the weapon is worded: The Foehammer is a thunder hammer that can be used as a ranged weapon with the following profile: Range____Strength____AP___Type 6"__________10________1_____ Assault Until GW FAQs it I'd allow it, as you're being hit by a flying Thunder Hammer. Note also that per his "Grimnar's Champion" rule, he would also re-roll the To Hit roll to throw his Foehammer against Independent Characters and Monstrous Creatures. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castlerook Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 So Arjac Rockfist has become the Space Wolf version of Thor (the Marvel Comics version rather then the Norse God version)........ Roll on Morbius the Blood Angel, Captain Macragge and his mighty shie.....wait......Would that make the Hulk a Dark Angel or a Salamander? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 So Arjac Rockfist has become the Space Wolf version of Thor (the Marvel Comics version rather then the Norse God version)........ Roll on Morbius the Blood Angel, Captain Macragge and his mighty shie.....wait......Would that make the Hulk a Dark Angel or a Salamander? Dark Angel. The Hulk only "hulks out" when he's angry, like those emo skirt-wearing fellows in the shado...oh HI Asmodai? Wait where are you taking me?! O_O DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 LOL DONE. Taking him in every game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmwulf Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have a funny idea. Throw the hammer to reduce the ini of whatever and then JotWW it. that would work ruleswise, woudn't it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeddon Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 So Arjac Rockfist has become the Space Wolf version of Thor (the Marvel Comics version rather then the Norse God version)........ Nope! The one I take is the Norse God! :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have a funny idea. Throw the hammer to reduce the ini of whatever and then JotWW it. that would work ruleswise, woudn't it? Reducing the Initiative only applies for combat I would think. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmwulf Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The rulebook says "all models that suffer an unsaved wound from a thunder hammer and are not killed will be knocked reeling, reducing their initiative to a value of 1 until the end of the next players turn" So i would say it does work. Makes sense, a reeling monster can't evade a crack in the ground as easily as one that is not reeling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have a funny idea. Throw the hammer to reduce the ini of whatever and then JotWW it. that would work rules wise, wouldn't it? Very interesting combo my man. And would have to agree it's gray but RAW it does work. Trying to coordinate it and actually pulling it off on the battlefield would be somewhat difficult, but doable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Hunter Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 In my opinion he is worth every point and then some. At 2500 points (what I usually play) I use Arjac, 1x WG TDA TH+SS, 2 WG TDA PF+SB, and a TDA Rune Priest with Beast slayer. Last Game that unit (with support fire from its land raider) killed 3 war walkers, an Avatar, and a Wraithlord. I highly recommend the Arjac rune priest combo as they pwn any daemons, MCs, Walkers, or ICs. Arjac FTW :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have a funny idea. Throw the hammer to reduce the ini of whatever and then JotWW it. that would work ruleswise, woudn't it? Reducing the Initiative only applies for combat I would think. DV8 [drags DV8 back from the clutches of Asmodai] I agree. The hammer has a different profile when it is used as a ranged attack, so therefore the normal profile isn't used. It is a bit of a grey area, but I'm personally not going to use the I reducing effect for ranged attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have a funny idea. Throw the hammer to reduce the ini of whatever and then JotWW it. that would work ruleswise, woudn't it? Reducing the Initiative only applies for combat I would think. DV8 [drags DV8 back from the clutches of Asmodai] I agree. The hammer has a different profile when it is used as a ranged attack, so therefore the normal profile isn't used. It is a bit of a grey area, but I'm personally not going to use the I reducing effect for ranged attacks. No, I would allow the I1 to happen. The USR doesn't specify ranged or melee, simply that if you're hit by a Thunder Hammer and not killed, your Initiative is reduced to 1 until the end of the next player turn. Makes Arjac + JotWW a very interesting combination indeed... OT I must say those Blades of Reason are tickly... DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 i too would use treat the thrown weapon as being 'different' from the thunder hammer and wouldn't use it to reduce he enemis I. if it said it as a special rule in his weapon profile then thats different but i think its very very jammy to use i that way. Im not saying don't and im not meaning to get into a debate, i just won't be doing that. as for his effectiveness, i've not used him but i think in the right situations he could certainly get his points back and then some- nidzilla lists and mech heavy IG forces spring to mind here. i may have to try him out soon.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Yeah, this is one of those things that really need a FAQ. But I'd wager the "stunning" effect would have been included in the alternative profile if it was intented to function that way. Hell, I think it would be awesome if it worked that way, but I don't think that was the intention. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Used him in a squad of 8 wolf guard all with power weapons, and he managed to plow through a demon prince, chaos land raider, squad of nurgle marines, and an obliterator squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 A thunder hammer is a close combat weapon. Arjac's thrown hammer is a ranged weapon, therefore it cannot be a thunder hammer when thrown. It is simply a ranged weapon with a Str of 10. Unless otherwise stated in the rules or a FAQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I posted it for you guys: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225206 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmwulf Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Even if it only works if the TH is used as a close combat weapon, you should still be able to reduce the ini of the model and then jaw it if you aim the power at that "hammered" model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucku Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 A thunder hammer is a close combat weapon. Arjac's thrown hammer is a ranged weapon, therefore it cannot be a thunder hammer when thrown. It is simply a ranged weapon with a Str of 10. Unless otherwise stated in the rules or a FAQ. But it states it's a Thunderhammer that can be thrown. I think you would get all the benefits, including Shaking a Vehicle. For his price I would hope so! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 But it states it's a Thunderhammer that can be thrown. That's fluff. The rules state only that it's 6", S10, AP1, Assault 1. Thunder hammers, by the way, are not AP1, even when wielded in Arjac's capable hands. So we're finding ourselves drifting farther and farther away from the CCW thunder hammer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Agreed. The TH rules are for a Special Close Combat Weapon. The Ranged profile Foehammer uses doesn't have the Special Close Combat Rules of a Thunderhammer. Just as Foehammer loses the +1 to the damage table it has for being AP1 when used in CC. Instead, it stuns like a TH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181642-rockfist/#findComment-2150665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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