Blood Claws, neutered.

[ThralKhan]

I keep going over both codexes and trying to find a reason why I should keep my Blood Claws, other than fluff. They've gone from a strong h2h unit to, in my opinion, utterly neutered. We've gone from up to 3 power fist attacks to just one, and with the new 5ed rules, unless you take a second power fist, you don't get bonus attacks. All for a BS3/WS3 model. Now they're only useful "if" they get to charge...if not, well, who knows.

 

Does anyone else feel the same? Does anyone have a good battle plan for the pups?

[Sharpsilver]

x 15 Blood Claws

x 1 Wolf Priest

x 2 Meltaguns

x 1 Powerfist

x 1 Power weapon (Wolf Priest)

 

 

56 Regular attacks, 4 Power Fist attacks, ALL with re-rolls to hit on preferred enemy type. That's insane... Add this with Counter-attack and we're guaranteed to get our berserk charge bonus when were charged for that opening round of Assault.

 

Then add the Wolf Priest's power weapon attacks at WS5 and you've got a relatively cheap force (335pts) capable of tearing pretty much anything that was designated as it's preferred enemy into small little pieces in Assault.

[deedark]

Now they're only useful "if" they get to charge

 

Wasnt that always the point, but I do agree to some extent 2 PW and/or Fists would have been an nice compromise on 15 BCs

 

I always ran BC in Rhinos with WG or IC now I'm not sure - dont own a raider so its 15+WG+HQ running I guess

 

D.

[Race Bannon]

Buried on page 3 and the last post was yesterday.

 

Losing two powerfists just put the unit on par with the rest of the Imperium. That's fair. And the old Space Wolf dex was in use for a full year+ with 5th ed rules. Man that earns a "too bad" in my book.

 

Honestly, if you play in a tournaments, then I understand your voice. But if you play friendly games, then keep using BC for fluffy reasons and learn to use them in their new capacity: a strong assault unit in the Troop slot). At the same time, I get the impression that there are a lot more Grey Hunters in the entire Chapter than Codex Chapters have marines, so don't feel bad to shelve the models. ;)

[muzzyman1981]

Well we did lose the Beserk Charge when you Counter Attack but overall my first (and only) game came out with the Blood Claws over-powering a Tactical SM squad AND a squad of Assault Terminators WITH a Librarian in TDA. I'd have to say that's not a bad tally for a unit that is "neutered".

[clanfield]

my blood claws have slaughterd many many wondours chaos marines scine they were "neutered" there just not the fire and forget option they use to be

id say im useing less packs of them now but there still good

[Baba Lem]

They're not exactly neutered but losing the second and third fist does hurt.

 

- Baba Lem

[clanfield]

i only used them in big games as the points were scarce now i use a wg with a fist and a claw with a power wepon works nice

[Skoll Brandulf]

I personally love my Blood Claws. Ever since they ripped apart a squad of grey knights I have been very pleased. And if you have Ragnar charging with them, that is a potential 12 attacks (or more) from him plus the BC's standard attacks. The get the job done quite well in my experience.

[Ullr Direfang]

i have only really ever run one squad, but now people tend to over look them because they don't have the other fists/PWs so i have actually run another pack and have faired well because "they aren't scary anymore" to quote a player at my #2LGS.

[Redbaron997]

I personally love my Blood Claws. Ever since they ripped apart a squad of grey knights I have been very pleased. And if you have Ragnar charging with them, that is a potential 12 attacks (or more) from him plus the BC's standard attacks. The get the job done quite well in my experience.

 

As fluffy as putting Ragnar wit BCs is I dont think its a good idea. You already get his charge bonus without him with the +2. I think his FC is better used with Wolf Guard or Grey Hunters (Depends if you want more special weapons or the wolf standard)

 

I think they can and do have a place, but its hard to justify them over Grey Hunters because GH are just so amazing now.

[greese_m0nkey]

I was thinking of doing a list with 2 squads of 15 each with two WP to lead them. Kind of the last fase of training before they are given over to a great company.

 

 

 

 

EDIT:typo

[Redbaron997]

I was thinking of doing a list with 2 squads of 15 each with two WP to lead them. Kind of the last fase of training before they are given over to a great company.

 

 

 

 

EDIT:typo

 

Thats just so many points for 2 threats though, you could get 4 Grey Hunter squads in 4 rhinos (giving you 10 more guys) and still have points left over.

[SamaNagol]

14 Blood Claws with 1 PFist

Wolf Guard with P Fist

Wolf Priest

LRC

 

Tell me that's had it's gentials made non-functional when it charges you.

[Aeddon]

I think that the supposed "neutering" of Blood Claws is vastly overrated. Just the other day I used a small 9 man pack (no upgrades) with a Wolf Guard wielding twin wolf claws mounted in a rhino. They preformed admirably in every way, even took down an Ork Warboss and his 5 Nobs. Best thing about them is that they did enough damage on the charge to keep them from mounting an affective response but it did not destroy them so we remained locked in combat preventing his boys from killing them in shooting in his next turn. I can see no reason not to take them but perhaps since I am new to playing Space Wolves I am not limiting myself in the ways I use them.

[the great beaver]

I think that the supposed "neutering" of Blood Claws is vastly overrated. Just the other day I used a small 9 man pack (no upgrades) with a Wolf Guard wielding twin wolf claws mounted in a rhino. They preformed admirably in every way, even took down an Ork Warboss and his 5 Nobs. Best thing about them is that they did enough damage on the charge to keep them from mounting an affective response but it did not destroy them so we remained locked in combat preventing his boys from killing them in shooting in his next turn. I can see no reason not to take them but perhaps since I am new to playing Space Wolves I am not limiting myself in the ways I use them.

 

good on ye mate! that's using your noggin! bloodclaws are great for what they do (charge things and tie up the enemy) and ye'd be a fool to turn them down.

 

I was thinking of doing a list with 2 squads of 15 each with two WP to lead them. Kind of the last fase of training before they are given over to a great company.

 

 

 

 

EDIT:typo

 

Thats just so many points for 2 threats though, you could get 4 Grey Hunter squads in 4 rhinos (giving you 10 more guys) and still have points left over.

 

 

yeah okay but who're you going to have succesfully go and take an objective being held by some tuff nuts like necrons or terminators? those extra attacks stack up, and so does the re-roll...the models you kill on the charge round don't get to keep fighting you in later turns making their low WS less of a burden.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I think BC might be a bit under-rated because GH are so good.

 

I think BC are still good value. With a Priest they are like a Crusader squad. People don't like fighting Crusader squads. B)

 

*If you have 15 BC + Priest and none have died yet:

 

Charging BC; 15 bp shots, 7.5 hit.

60 a, 45 hit.

 

COMBINED s4 hits = 52.5!

 

CHARGED BC; (probable counter attack, Ld 10)

45 a, 33.75 hit

 

CHARGED BC (with Priest) get 3 a. Charging Initiates also get 3 a (but they do get a bp shot, too).

People fear being charged by Crusader squads.

A charged BC squad is actually not far behind....

 

I'm not sure you have to feel a 'need' to have a LRC for BC/Priest combo to get a good return. They'll still do well.

 

The 'weak-link' is the Priest himself, who is not so flimsy anyway. Maybe Runic armour if you are feeling nervous.

 

When you get a boost from a IC, the more minis you can spread it over the better. BC are that candidate IMO.

 

Yes I quoted myself for the second time in two days....

[the great beaver]

you know we've got a new codex when other chapters have to come into our forum and remind us how good our stuff is :)

[SamaNagol]

In such a huge squad it is actually not difficult to protect the Wolf Priest. Make sure he charges the complete opposite end of the unit to where the hidden power fist is and he cannot be targeted.

[JCarter]

I see talk of meltaguns. Does the ability to have two flamers increase the desirability of a BC unit?

[SamaNagol]

Can work against you when your oppnent removing casualties leaves you out of charge range. But not needing to roll to hit is always a bonus.

[Redbaron997]

In such a huge squad it is actually not difficult to protect the Wolf Priest. Make sure he charges the complete opposite end of the unit to where the hidden power fist is and he cannot be targeted.

 

Well the thing is the foe can always remove the models from the front of his squad.

 

So lets say you got a unit of 20 okr boyz and you flamer and shoot pistols at is, you kill 6 and he removes the from the direction your squad is coming from, so now he is more than 6inches from your squad, denying you the charge. This coupled with teh fact that BC put out a crap load of attacks means that they dont need any help vs hordes.

 

People often put meltas cause they are so cheap and "Just in case"

[dragon950]

I agree that if you have the points that a wolf priests would be very effictive with a 15 man bc squad in a crusader. But if you cant do that then have plasma or flamers and wolf guard, use them to guard your back against anything droping in or poping up.

[the great beaver]

I only ever use the flamer if I'm less than 2 inches from my charge target.

[WolfLordLars]

I used to run with two 15-man BC packs, because I had a ton of models. Now, just one.. as I am retiring my older models which are painted and sealed (changing to the 'official' color scheme... also changing to the Great Wolfs company).

 

I would go with a flamer for the first weapon, and the melta as the 'free' weapon. All in all, while I dont like the loss of two power fists... it makes sense. Just throw in a wolf guard and be about your business.