Dammeron Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I've always had a soft spot for the sons of Lorgar. ever since their background was first crystallised in the second ed Chaos Codex, they've held a particular fascination for me, owing to their status as the "purest" Chaos Space Marines in existence (i.e. those who are dedicated body and soul to Chaos, and nothing more). However, I have been routinely disappointed by their portrayal in the 40K fiction. In particular, their manifestation in books such as Dark Apostle and their various occurences in the Horus Heresy books has left me somewhat cold. Principly, I am concerned over their portrayal as moustache-twirling, brutal super villains, which jars quite profoundly with my own personal perception of them. In my mind, the Word Bearers have always been dark evangelists, super-crusaders who believe to the deepest depths of their souls that Chaos is the ultimate truth, and that they are in fact setting humanity and the wider universe free by their actions. In this regard, I've always pictured them as being quite joyous on the battlefield, singing hymns and catechisms to the Dark Gods as they slaughter the enemy, pontificating on the truths they bring even as those they preach to burn and are trampled underfoot. Their Index Astartes article also enhances this overall flavour by emphasising their superstition; of all the Chaos Legions, I imagine they are the most likely to cast themselves on the tides of the Warp and allow the Gods to deliver them where they will. This is yet another element that i find to be currently lacking in the 40K fiction. In point of fact, in all of their occurences thus far, I've seen little more than generic Chaos Space Marines who could potentially derive from a variety of legions were they not specifically classified as Word Bearers. I'm sincerely hoping that, if as and when there is a HH book focussing on the Word Bearers and their "fall" (or enlightenment, depending on how you want to look at it :lol: ), they are treated as beings with their own flaws, foibles and complexities rather than uber-villain stereotypes. I would particularly relish an in depth look at the processes that eventually drove Lorgar to embrace Chaos, as thus far we've only been treated to a somewhat vague and distant summary of events. The trauma of abandoning the faith by which he has defined his entire existence should be suitably sumptuous and detailed, not to mention credible above all else. His awakening to the "truth" of Chaos should be a thing of darkly transcendent joy, a blossoming of consciousness that enfolds and enraptures him, not some petty spoiled brat tantrum or abrupt volte face (a la Horus). These are, of course, entirely subjective opinions base don my own perceptions and preconceptions of the Word Bearers. I'm wondering how my fellow slaves to darkness perceive the legion (not to mention others) and what they would like to see concerning their portrayal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I can see where you're coming from, but I don't believe thats how I would view it. His awakening to the "truth" of Chaos should be a thing of darkly transcendent joy, a blossoming of consciousness that enfolds and enraptures him, not some petty spoiled brat tantrum or abrupt volte face (a la Horus). This might be appropriate for Lorgar, but I think your rank and file Word Bearers would be more subdued and respectful. I see it as them taking on a terrific burden, to overthrow the veil of lies the Emperor had used to hide the truth of Chaos and spread its word. For most, that would be a sombering experience and one that must be approached with utter devotion and humility. As for their depiction in the novels, they seem well presented in the Dark Apostle series, a very professional army bound by absolute obidence to the Dark Apostle and therefore to Chaos itself. The worst (in my opinion) depiction was in Battle for the Abyss, where they were shown as bullet sponge zealots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2151745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I agree. I think such a principle should be applied to all Chaos Space Marines. They shouldn't be evil for the sake of it, they need a cause, no matter how much that cause has been warped- or dare I say Warped- by the passage of time and the onset of madness. Ironically, though the Word Bearers give themselves most fully to the Warp they should probably be amongst those whose purpose remains purest- the enlightenment of Mankind to the salvation of Chaos. The Emperor has failed to protect Humanity against a monstrous galaxy, and so the true Powers that Be must cast down the Corpse and rule the stars. Though I did enjoy the Word Bearers series thus far, I agree with you on the Battle for the Abyss debacle. The only real saving graces of that story were the secondary characters Skraal and Mhotep, and to an extent the Space Wolf, though he was stereotypical in the extreme. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2152292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkapostle222 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I am a great fan of the Dark Apostle series of books. In fact they were the novels that turned me into the Dark Apostle that I am. I think that the books portray the Word Bearers how they are and how you were hoping Dammeron. I just finished reading the books for a 3rd time and it does describe the Word Bearers as holy warriors speaking prayers and sacrificing the Loyalists before going into battle. As for Battle of the Abyss I think it did make the Word Bearers into moustache twirling "MWAHAHAHAH" bad guys. The fact that they didn't really say that they were worshipping Chaos and instead "the Word" just made me very upset. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2152469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 The mustache twirling is just bad writing, I like to think of them like the ultimate religious warriors as well, the truest of the warrior-monk ideal. I think Anthony Reynolds has done some good stuff. I like his portrayal of the Astartes, its about how I see them at their most BA. I just hate them for having modern 40K be their fault... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2152672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
40kChrista Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I have to agree with some of the above posts, Anthony Reynolds has done a terrific job portraying the Word Bearers. Battle for the Abyss was meh to me and no novel failed more than Daemonworld for Word Bearers. To me, and I think this is the key here... interpretation of what you think the Word Bearers are, they have always been more along the lines of Templars from the Crusades. Very proficient at battle and highly religious at the same time, these things are probably what kept the Word bearers together instead of splintering like the other legions. Grim Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2154736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 how did demon world fail to show how how WB think or act? did it failed because WB were the ones that lost? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2155273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 BFtA is horrible indeed. Dark Apostle did a good job, a bit too much animosity for my taste however, in my world Word Bearers would never argue with one another but stick together in their purpose of greatness, no matter what. Haven't had time to get further in the Dark Apostle serie but I'll do when I get the chance. TDA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2155328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I also picture them as 'Templars from the Crusades'. Holy warriors ever bound to spreading the word of chaos and it's glory! Dark Apostles and other key figures shouting chaotic rites and many of the marines having scripture all across their armour and weapons. Every marine tyring to better themselfes as preachers of Their word. Mistakes are maken and punishments are given. Forever teaching and forever learning. Maybe some disagreement and form of power struggle between different marines but overall they work togeather to please the gods and each marine is kept in check. Higher figures making sure that each marine is worshiping Chaos in it's purest and undivided form and not swaying towards any of the Gods in particular. No one take offence to this but I also see them as chaos' version of the Black Templars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2155715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I also picture them as 'Templars from the Crusades'. Holy warriors ever bound to spreading the word of chaos and it's glory! Dark Apostles and other key figures shouting chaotic rites and many of the marines having scripture all across their armour and weapons. Every marine tyring to better themselfes as preachers of Their word. Mistakes are maken and punishments are given. Forever teaching and forever learning. Maybe some disagreement and form of power struggle between different marines but overall they work togeather to please the gods and each marine is kept in check. Higher figures making sure that each marine is worshiping Chaos in it's purest and undivided form and not swaying towards any of the Gods in particular. No one take offence to this but I also see them as chaos' version of the Black Templars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2155717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I also picture them as 'Templars from the Crusades'. Holy warriors ever bound to spreading the word of chaos and it's glory! Dark Apostles and other key figures shouting chaotic rites and many of the marines having scripture all across their armour and weapons. Every marine tyring to better themselfes as preachers of Their word. Mistakes are maken and punishments are given. Forever teaching and forever learning. Maybe some disagreement and form of power struggle between different marines but overall they work togeather to please the gods and each marine is kept in check. Higher figures making sure that each marine is worshiping Chaos in it's purest and undivided form and not swaying towards any of the Gods in particular. No one take offence to this but I also see them as chaos' version of the Black Templars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2155718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 how did demon world fail to show how how WB think or act? did it failed because WB were the ones that lost? Personally I thought the BA books failed Word Bearers more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2155772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Even if DemonWorld was nothing more than a Mary Sue slugging fest, it reinforces the concepts behind the Word Bearers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2156237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Sorry for multiple reply.. Computer lag accident :). I'm guessing there is no way to delete them?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2156964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Irenik Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Why didnt u like BfTA? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2157545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaeron Baoth Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I myself enjoyed Dark Apostle and Dark Disciple. Actually Dark Apostle turned me to Lorgar´s follower. My vision of Word Bearers is more like late Roman religion before Christianity, mixtured with knightly orders like Templars and other religious movements on diffrent ages and cultures. Late Roman paganism was greatly influenced by eastern mystery cults like Mirthanism. Inside Roman legions were many mystery cults and higher your status was inside that cult, more secrets you learned. This kind of system made priests and other religious specialists very important members inside cult, as they basically created their personal religious dogmas. As Word Bearers I see their dark apostles very important figures, they are leaders of their personal cult, which is host they lead. They all base their teachings on words of Lorgar, but I think that each of them has lot of liberties to create their own version of Lorgars teachings insde their host. I think that believes can changea lot from one host to another, because apstle has different opinion. As this my host Chaos Vult is lead by dark apostle Khaeron Baoth. He is man leader of mystery cult and possesseds are acolytes, who know more of their cults´ secrets than regular marines. they use Icons of different gods, but must keep balance, they can´t have more icons of one god than anothers inside their army. Units alo can change their icons, since icons represent prayers and blessings Khaeron Baoth gives to units before battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2159138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomX Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Personally I believe that the best fiction portrayal of the Bearers is from "Tales of the Heresy", their short story in there of their becalming in space after the Emperor rebuked Lorgar, and the subsequent pacification action that they undertake directly after Lorgar falls. That story was fantastic. Well written and dark. And was, personally, exactly how I thought of them. -Eric Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2162351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
40kChrista Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 how did demon world fail to show how how WB think or act? did it failed because WB were the ones that lost? It wasn't a book about the Word Bearers, it was a book about an ancient Champion of chaos and his disillusionment of the 4 powers. It just happened to have the Word Bearers in it and it really could have been any chapter of Marines there. Whether they won or lost is really irrelevant, as far as the portrayal of what the Word bearers are I think that Ben counter missed it here, and I like most of his writing but in this book the Word Bearers seemed like an after thought. Grim Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181770-the-word-bearers/#findComment-2162543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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