minigun762 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 HavocBack = A Chaos Rhino with an attacked Havoc Launcher to be an approximation of the Loyalist TL Heavy Bolter Razorback and a poor man's Whirlwind. I was toying with the idea of these units to ferry my fire support CSMs around. Give the squad inside 2 Plasmaguns and you can fire 2 S7, 1 TL'd S4 shot and 1 TL S5 blast out to 24". And on the move you can still move 6" and fire all 4 weapons, albeit with a reduced range of 12" on the Plasma. Hell you could be crazy and slap a Heavy weapon into the squad. A Heavy Bolter would give you some more cheap anti-infantry firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVIL INC Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I have given those to havoc squads and had them sit with the squad to add extra firepower. Opponants find it to be a pain in the rear. Could also do the same thing with a troops squad with a heavy weapon gaurding an objective in your deployment zone. You would be surprised at how much firepower an opponant will waste trying to take out that measley rhino and not use against the more dangerous units closing on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimz Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Are you able to shoot heavy weapons from inside a stationary rhino? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Are you able to shoot heavy weapons from inside a stationary rhino? As long as it hasn't moved, I believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I converted up one and used it a lot, even in tournies. It is OK. It does draw fire, but lately I've opted for the cheap rhino and in future I'm using a less is more, ie less points on dodads so I can have more rhinos. 4 in 1500 points is my latest proposed list. I agree that if you gave them to squads that were expected to sit most of the time, it might be cool. I don't know if I can find the 30 points. I just think with no havoc missile launcher you gun the engines on the first turn and ultimately that is better in the long term of getting your bolter dudes and special weapon dudes in range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVIL INC Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I see what you mean muskie. I dont have that many rhino models and simply cannot affor to buy enough to go fully mech. If I were to do that, I would go for plain rhinos in order to gain more mobility. Generally, my army is infantry (only 3 rhinos that match my main army colors and one rhino to match my nurgle unit). Of course, I also play a more "shooty" list then an assaulty list too. Playstyle goes a long way in these decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Very worthwhile weapon. Its blast, and str5 with rerollable hit die. Great for pelting a open topped AV10 transport. I think its something like a 70%+ chance to hit a vehicle with a BS4 rerollable blast weapon. (2 results are a hit, 4 results out of 2-12 will still hit vehicles assuming 1" deviation will still have the hole over the vehicle as most are at least 2" wide) Tank shock something, then shoot the weapon. A blast weapon may cover more then a template because the narrow end is close to the vehicle even with a 1" distance between the tank and the enemy. Allowing you to put down a blast weapon with higher effect, though with a higher chance to not hit what they aim at since flame templates auto hit. 50 point model, still carries 10 models, still allows two to fire out the top hatch. Superior to the TLHB Razorback. Even with the lack of AP4, rerollable blast str5 with 48" range is by far better, since you have a chance to hit more then three targets. And abuse lash-blasting with a transport. Tempts me to abuse a twin lash army at times with 5 rhinos, 3 defilers/9 oblits packing havoc launchers everywhere possible. Havoc launcher can still ruin a ork unit and IG unit with ease. Imagine 2 flamers, havoc launcher and lashing something together facing all that without showing their faces out of the deployment hatches. I just get suckered in with the typical combi-melta on my rhinos. Its always on my dakka predator, making our predators superior to the cheaper marine dakka predator. Also adding a blast weapon to a predator is a great kick in the gut when hitting bunches of models, good potential diversity of a predator's firepower. 2 PG and 1 HL sounds like a plague marine min/max potential, being FNP for plasma overheats and squad of 5 marines at T5 in case the vehicle explodes and hurts them with str4 (5's) and FNP+Power armor. Just my opinion though, may be just as fine going with 10 marines and having some actual meat(and more grenades if called for) in a firepower army. Since str8 and AP3 or better is abundant with opposing fire units with the heavy weapon option for the chaos marines to add. I will say though, 50 points for a havoc launcher is a fine addition to any one squad if they are used to just sit and shoot. Like noise marines do, or havoc squads. The added benefit of having a mobile terrain piece that still moves 6" and fires everything is a nice addition to any marine army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepstrike Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I love mine. High str makes even space marines take notice. twin linked shots have great accuracy. rhino or dakka pred are where mine are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 I love mine. High str makes even space marines take notice. twin linked shots have great accuracy. rhino or dakka pred are where mine are. Exactly my thought. Its strong enough to be a real threat to any infantry and with poor guardsmen its wounding on 2's with no army save. The TL nature of the weapon makes it quite accurate and the 48" range means you can hang back outside of the range of things like Heavy Bolters or Multi-Lasers. Great for pelting a open topped AV10 transport Nice thought corpse, I hadn't thought about that aspect of it. I just think with no havoc missile launcher you gun the engines on the first turn and ultimately that is better in the long term of getting your bolter dudes and special weapon dudes in range. I see your point Muskie and I agree that I wouldn't want them on all Rhinos as you're right, you should be zooming forward. Maybe its just the armies I build but I tend to incorporate rifle squads as close range support for my assault oriented squads, usually 1 rifle squad for every 2 assault squads and the extra firepower and range of the Havoc Launcher seems like it would be a perfect fit for those kinds of squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satanaka Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Are you able to shoot heavy weapons from inside a stationary rhino? Yes, you can, but it counts as an open topped vehicle for a turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Are you able to shoot heavy weapons from inside a stationary rhino? Yes, you can, but it counts as an open topped vehicle for a turn. It says nowhere that fire points dictate an open topped vehicle. Otherwise we would be having move+open topped+assaults with closed topped vehicles like the rhino. Thats an old rule from 4th and 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xom Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Are you able to shoot heavy weapons from inside a stationary rhino? Yes, you can, but it counts as an open topped vehicle for a turn. It says nowhere that fire points dictate an open topped vehicle. Otherwise we would be having move+open topped+assaults with closed topped vehicles like the rhino. Thats an old rule from 4th and 3rd. Yeah, there was more too it though. I think in 4th it would count as open topped unless marines were shooting out of it. Idea was their power armor acted like the armor of the rhino, basically plugging up the hatch. At least I think that was from 4th... I've been playing around with the havocback idea a bit. More for fun than anything else. Obviously this is taking the havocback setup to the extreme, and also weapon loadouts for squads could be different. But hey, this codex is so boring why the heck not. HQ: 1 x Chaos Lord Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol 120 pts TROOPS: 10 x Chaos Space Marines Aspiring Champion, Powerfist, 1 x Lascannon , IoCG Rhino Havoc Launcher 270 pts 10 x Chaos Space Marines Aspiring Champion, Powerfist, 1 x Lascannon , IoCG Rhino Havoc Launcher 270 pts 10 x Chaos Space Marines Aspiring Champion, Powerfist, 1 x Lascannon , IoCG Rhino Havoc Launcher 270 pts HEAVY SUPPORT: 9 x Chaos Space Marines Aspiring Champion, Powerfist, 2 x Lascannon , IoCG Rhino Havoc Launcher 305 pts 1 x Predator Autocannon, 2 x Lascannons 130 pts 1 x Predator Twin-Linked Lascannon, 2 x Heavy Bolters 135 pts TOTAL: 1500 pts Lord would join the 9 man havoc squad or just float around... doesn't really matter. Predator setups are just to fill points. I could always move the 5 points from the 2nd pred to the lord somehow. IoCG should keep most of the marines on the board. Assuming any rhinos are left towards the end of the match, run up and contest or capture objectives with a squad inside. Pfists for killy goodness. Just realized how bored I am, sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atheist Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Are you able to shoot heavy weapons from inside a stationary rhino? Yes, you can, but it counts as an open topped vehicle for a turn. It says nowhere that fire points dictate an open topped vehicle. Otherwise we would be having move+open topped+assaults with closed topped vehicles like the rhino. Thats an old rule from 4th and 3rd. Yeah, there was more too it though. I think in 4th it would count as open topped unless marines were shooting out of it. Idea was their power armor acted like the armor of the rhino, basically plugging up the hatch. At least I think that was from 4th... What he said . I've been playing around with the havocback idea a bit. More for fun than anything else. Obviously this is taking the havocback setup to the extreme, and also weapon loadouts for squads could be different. But hey, this codex is so boring why the heck not. HQ: 1 x Chaos Lord Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol 120 pts TROOPS: 10 x Chaos Space Marines Aspiring Champion, Powerfist, 1 x Lascannon , IoCG Rhino Havoc Launcher 270 pts 10 x Chaos Space Marines Aspiring Champion, Powerfist, 1 x Lascannon , IoCG Rhino Havoc Launcher 270 pts 10 x Chaos Space Marines Aspiring Champion, Powerfist, 1 x Lascannon , IoCG Rhino Havoc Launcher 270 pts HEAVY SUPPORT: 9 x Chaos Space Marines Aspiring Champion, Powerfist, 2 x Lascannon , IoCG Rhino Havoc Launcher 305 pts 1 x Predator Autocannon, 2 x Lascannons 130 pts 1 x Predator Twin-Linked Lascannon, 2 x Heavy Bolters 135 pts TOTAL: 1500 pts Lord would join the 9 man havoc squad or just float around... doesn't really matter. Predator setups are just to fill points. I could always move the 5 points from the 2nd pred to the lord somehow. IoCG should keep most of the marines on the board. Assuming any rhinos are left towards the end of the match, run up and contest or capture objectives with a squad inside. Pfists for killy goodness. Just realized how bored I am, sigh... If you'd change a/some heavy weapon(s) in the squads you could include in every troop a ( cheap) flamer , thus making it possible to attack -say- a horde army instead of sitting back and shoot ( if there aren't any targets for your lascannons ) , I 'd prefer a bit of "heavier" heavy support and ML's/AC's on the troops . Cheaper and I like them better . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie's Gun Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I have one on all my rhinos. They make a general nuisance out of themselves most of the time, and give my rhinos something to do once they've offloaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share Posted October 17, 2009 People talk about not wanting to equip them Rhinos with extra weapons to make them more of a target, but would a Havoc Launcher really make them that much more of a target? People are still going to want to kill them because they're transports in turns 1-3 and later on they might try for an easy KP with them, but would you ever go out of your way to shot a Rhino just because of its Havoc Launcher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepstrike Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 People talk about not wanting to equip them Rhinos with extra weapons to make them more of a target, but would a Havoc Launcher really make them that much more of a target? People are still going to want to kill them because they're transports in turns 1-3 and later on they might try for an easy KP with them, but would you ever go out of your way to shot a Rhino just because of its Havoc Launcher? No, just to break them open to get at the juicy bits inside. Same goes for razorbacks or chimera transports they are a big part of the game right now and a major part of alot of peoples plans take them away and they have troubles engaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimerical Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I would only use one for a single small squad camping on an objective in your deployment zone. I've toyed with one for a 5-man Noise Marine squad with blastmaster. It's nice to have, but you can leave it as well since the price is pretty high. Providing you have other rhinos filled with more threatening squads (dual melta, berzerkers, etc.) they will not be first priority targets so you can expect to get a few shots. But now that mech is so much more prevalent than infantry, its meta-game value has been falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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