SW Drop Pods

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Internal Guidance says you can't scatter onto Impassable Terrain (and therefore roll on the chart) and same goes for enemy models...it doesn't keep you from dropping onto difficult terrain, which we all know is dangerous for deep striking units as the Drop Pod is considered to be when dropping.

 

You are talking yourselves into holes that do not exist - crack on rolling but you're causing yourselves unnecessary problems :angry:

[Gentlemanloser]

??

 

Seriosuly, Internal Guidance Systems only reduces scatter into impassible terrain or other units.

 

You can still go off board with it (and suffer a perils test on your DP and Unit), or land in difficult terrain. As the vehicle is DSing, it treats the dificult terrain as dangerous. So has to take a Dangerous Terrain test.

 

It is also imoblie the moment it lands (and is open topped at deployment), so another imobile result would force the DP to lose it's one weapon. Leaving it weaponless and immoblie (And the next damaging hit would destory it)

 

Plus, as open topped, it would get a +1 to the damage roll.

 

At least the Dangerous Terrain test can only inflict 'Immobilised', and can't destroy the DP.

 

But it's interesting to note the Difficult/Dangerous Terrain rules state that the Drop Pod would have to stop *outside* of the Difficult Terrain, if it rolls a 1 and immobilises itself. ;)

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Agreed on scattering off table.

 

However, a dangerous terrain test takes place as a DSing unit enters the difficult terrain, which is as it lands (or even before if the terrain is tall) but not after.

 

So it enters the terrain, you can roll if you want. If you do and it's a one then it is immobilised - if you roll two - six then its immobilised anyway on landing.

 

Guys, stand back and think about this one - there is no argument for it being destroyed or losing a weapon unless someone shoots at it!

 

It lands and is immobilised as it has no means of propulsion and not because of the effects of enemy fire, terrain etc.

[JamesI]

Guys, stand back and think about this one - there is no argument for it being destroyed or losing a weapon unless someone shoots at it!

 

It lands and is immobilised as it has no means of propulsion and not because of the effects of enemy fire, terrain etc.

Correct. The only way a drop pod can be destroyed on the drop (other than going off the table) is if the opponent has mystics.

[muzzyman1981]

It acts the same way as Deep Striking units....cause otherwise you are telling me that Deep Striking units (i.e. Terminator squads) don't get the Difficult/Dangerous Terrain test. If it lands in Difficult Terrain, it counts as Dangerous...unless you can point out exceptions in the rulebook or codex(es) then I'm afraid that by not taking the test (which is only a 1 in 6 chance you land bad anyways) you are cheating.

 

Nowhere in the rulebook does it state that Drop Pods or vehicles coming in by Deep Strike are immune to it.

[JamesI]

Unless I'm mistaken, all dangerous terrain does to a vehicle is immobilize it, which will happen to the pod the moment it lands anyway.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Unless I'm mistaken, all dangerous terrain does to a vehicle is immobilize it, which will happen to the pod the moment it lands anyway.

 

I agree but there seems to be the belief in some quarters that, if immobilised by rolling a one on the dangerous terrain test, then the auto self-immobilisation must be upgraded to weapon destroyed.

 

Seems like a rabbit hole to me...

[muzzyman1981]

Yes, I'm afraid so....unless anyone can find an except for a Deep Striking Drop Pod to not take the Dangerous Terrain test when Deep Striking into Difficult terrain in the rulebook or Space Wolf Codex....

 

I know it sucks but as honorable Wolves we all are will should abide by the rules.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Guys, stand back and think about this one - there is no argument for it being destroyed or losing a weapon unless someone shoots at it!

 

It lands and is immobilised as it has no means of propulsion and not because of the effects of enemy fire, terrain etc.

Correct. The only way a drop pod can be destroyed on the drop (other than going off the table) is if the opponent has mystics.

That's how I've always played it...

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Yes, I'm afraid so....unless anyone can find an except for a Deep Striking Drop Pod to not take the Dangerous Terrain test when Deep Striking into Difficult terrain in the rulebook or Space Wolf Codex....

 

I know it sucks but as honorable Wolves we all are will should abide by the rules.

 

Agreed that we should abide by the rules, I just don't agree with your interpretation as even if they take the test it makes no difference to the price of fish. The self-immobilisation is not caused by terrain or enemy action so would not become weapon destroyed and I'm at a loss to see where in the rules it says that it should.

[Frosty the Pyro]

The rule for dangerous terain on vehicles says on a 1 you imidiatly suffer an imobilised damage result. emphasis mine. they are not simply immobilised, they suffer the damage result. Sense the drop pod has landed it is already imobilised, then it suffers the damage result. It is already imobilised so the damage result upgraded to weapon destroyed. This is not arguable.

 

The only thing you might be able to argue is that you havnt finished landing when you take the dangerous terrain test. But that is thin to the point of ludicrous (as you have to have landed to be in the terain, and you have to be in the terain before you can roll for being in it)

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Exactly, as has been mentioned earlier, the DP has not self-immobilised until it has landed. The dangerous terrain test would be conducted on entering the terrain - just like any other vehicle - and this would be momentarily prior to landing or at best simultaneous to it.

 

So when the immobilised damage result is inflicted the vehicle is not yet immobilised.

 

This follows the logical sequence of the action - it isn't ludicrous just because it doesn't help your point of view.

 

Is there anything else to add or have we reached the point where we have to agree to disagree?

 

edited to clarify:

 

To help understand the sequence better: the dangerous terrain test is taken on entering the terrain and the auto-immobilisation takes place at the end of the DPs movement phase. So the DP cannot have auto-immobilised prior to taking the test.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Its on the board, its landed. that happens first.

 

But yeah we can agree to disagree.

[Grey Mage]

If it blows up, wouldn't you have to take a pinning test for the passengers, as it's moved at/faster than cruising speed?

 

I'm actually liking Drop Pods less and less. :D

No ones in it... so how could they be affected?

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Its on the board, its landed. that happens first.

 

But yeah we can agree to disagree.

 

Terrain tests are taken as soon as the unit touches the terrain but if has already landed then it has already entered the terrain and the time for the test has past - you can't have it both ways ;)

[Frosty the Pyro]

before it lands its not touching anything, because its deapstriking. As soon as its touched the board, it has landed. The most you could argue with that is a simultanious order

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Not quite - I suggest that it hasn't landed until it is resting on the board but it would be liable for a test as soon as it touches part of terrain requiring such a test.

 

Imagine you are on a plane - it has not completed landing until all parts of its undercarriage are firmly touching the runway and it has reduced its forward motion to a modest level suitable for taxing but it makes contact with the runway as soon as one part of the undercarriage touches down - that is to say before it has completed landing.

 

Now think of a DP hitting difficult terrain - perhaps a wood - first it will hit the tree tops then it will smash through the branches before finally coming to rest on the ground - at which point it has landed but it entered the wood as soon as the bottom of the DP moved through the upper most leaves.

 

A similar process could be argued for a ruined building; as it crashes through the broken floors and structure to come to a firm rest and to said to have landed.

 

In both examples it will enter the difficult terrain before it has completed landing and be able to be described as landed.

 

If you wish to argue that it has already landed at the start of the movement phase then you have gone beyond the time for terrain test because they must take place as soon as a unit touches the terrain, which cannot be after it has landed - isn't logic a real pain sometimes...

 

You need to to able to disprove that logical process to argue otherwise as the rules are very clear on when you test for terrain, ie that something has landed as soon as any part of the model touches any part of the board and not when it rests unaided on the table.

 

Whilst Cambridge rule on grammar, Oxford retain primacy on word definitions and their compact dictionary gives us:

 

To Land • verb 1 put or go ashore. 2 come or bring down to the ground. 3 bring (a fish) to land with a net or rod. 4 informal succeed in obtaining or achieving (something desirable). 5 (land up) reach a place or destination. 6 (land up with) end up with (an unwelcome situation). 7 (land in) informal put in (a difficult situation). 8 (land with) inflict (something unwelcome) on. 9 informal inflict (a blow) on someone.

 

I can't see much help for you there - perhaps if you can find anything in the full version it may be of help...

[Gentlemanloser]

So if all attacks are simultanious (At a specific I value), and a vehicles suffers 4 Imobilised results, it only takes one right?

 

As it's not immobilised at the time the other three hit....

 

 

The act of landing Immobilises the DP, and causes a Dangerous Terrain Test. That test can cuase an immobilised result, which stacks with the self immobilise (imagine the DP hits itself with a 4 on the damage table...), to upgrade it to weapon off.

 

Not quite - I suggest that it hasn't landed until it is resting on the board but it would be liable for a test as soon as it touches part of terrain requiring such a test.

 

Like landing in a crater? Which is Difficult Terrain, upgraded to Dangerous due to DS. The only time you 'touch' the terrain is when you land resting unaided.

[SeattleDV8]

I don't believe the timing matters at all.

SM:codex pg 69 "..... counts in all repects as a vehicle that has suffered an immoblised damage result....."

Notice the phase ' in all repects' , we treat the landings self-immoblised result the same as an enemies attack or a dangerous terrain test.

When it happens doesn't matter at all, first, second or the same time.

A drop pod failing a dangerous terrain test is immoblised and loses a weapon.

[nighthawks]

agreed with the immobilized x2 = immobilized and weapon destroyed. it's pretty cut and dry, no matter what sequence you prefer to imagine the immobilization results occuring.