Counter Assault vs Defensive Grenades

[G.M. Valens]

Greetings everyone.

 

I wanted to share with you a situation that arose in a battle this past weekend. I was playing my beloved Space Puppies verses a friend whom was using Daemons. At one point he assaulted my Blood Claw pack with a group of daemonettes (sp?). I counter assaulted and we got into an argument about whether his “defensive grenades” would prevent me from gaining my +1 bonus for counter attacking.

 

After a heated argument involving several consults (and a 4+ roll) we finally decided that I would gain my +1 bonus.

 

What do you folks think? The wording can almost support either argument. The key being whether the phrase under counter assault (I don’t have my book on me so this is as best as I can remember the quote) “the unit gains +1 attack, just as if it were assaulting”, is “counts as assaulting” of just reference to the +1 bonus for assaulting.

 

Defensive grenades, of course, say that “an assaulting unit does not gain the +1 attacks for charging” (might even negate all charge bonuses but I can’t remember).

 

Thoughts?

[JamesI]

I don't think defensive grenades stop counter attack, but I am not sure on this one.

[hendrik]

defensive grenades are like their name says it, defensive and thus don't work when charging

[Uthred Ragnarson]

well just off top of my head defensive grenades key word defensive, doubt you can use them i.e. get bonuses whilst assaulting

 

*D'oh beaten to the punch

 

:D

[G.M. Valens]

defensive grenades are like their name says it, defensive and thus don't work when charging

 

You are trying to use common sense to explain GW rules. We'll have none of that :D

[DV8]

defensive grenades are like their name says it, defensive and thus don't work when charging

 

You are trying to use common sense to explain GW rules. We'll have none of that :D

 

Well spoke.

 

I think it's been established in other threads that while a Counter-Attack is like an assault, you are not charging. The USR for Counter-Attack simply states you get a +1 Attack Bonus as if you had launched an assault, but not treating it as a charge. If it were to be treated as such, the counter-attacking unit should get all the benefits as if it had launched a normal charge (re: Berserk Charge, in the case of Blood Claws).

 

 

DV8

[dudelord]

The statement that says:

 

... when a unit with this rule is assaulted by the enemy it must take a leadership test. If the test is successful all models in the unit get the +1 assault bonus to their attacks, exactly as if they too had assaulted that turn.

 

So to me this says that they get a +1 bonus to attacking when receiving a charge. The line "exactly as if they too had assaulted that turn" I always though was there to just clarify what was going on to new people who weren't familiar with statline based gameplay (so it's self referencing to try and simplify it... which just ends up complicating it for the more experienced people... go figure)

 

On another note, how can a unit with defensive grenades charge forward, go oh crap, they're charging too, drop their grenades, quickly go and hide somewhere, or shield their eyes, or block their ears (or something), then when the dust settles, re-charge the unit (at which point, the Wolves would just counter-attack again... it's not like blinding us would make us less angry and therefore lose an attack...).

 

Edit - started writing before DV8 posted... so he basically covered all my points *shakes fist