Opinions on Skyclaws and Swiftclaws?

[Prototype]

I don't seem to see anyone talking about these two fast attack choices, which kind of surprises me, given that they seem to fulfil an interesting place in the army list (fast moving power armored units that do not require a vehicle to deliver them), without being as cost prohibitive as the Thunderwolves. What do you guys think of the Skyclaws and Swiftclaws?

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

I use some swift claws to help out my RP, but that is mainly it. They can provide a decent amount of anti-tank power if you are willing to throw melta bombs on them and with a RP in the works they are great at mopping up after the shooting phase. They lack the punch of the Cav, but make up for it with cost and more affective anti-tank use.

 

Don't worry though, I am sure once Lilbitz sees this you will get ALL the info you need on swiftclaws

[JamesI]

For the cost, I think Skyclaws are great. Really nasty unit.

[littlbitz]

Both are quite useful and cost effective.

 

I prefer the Swift Claws over the Sky Claws though, and there are many reasons why.

 

For just seven points you gain the following, a Twin-linked Bolter, a point of Toughness, the ability to get a Heavy weapon (with its own additional advantages), the ability to Turbo-boost for additional speed and that all important cover save, and the ability to take Melta-bombs on the whole pack.

 

Now sure they need a leash like all BloodClaws, but who doesn't love a Wolf Lord on a Bike?

 

Their one down side is numbers, you can of course bulk the pack up but its going to cost you. Personally I enjoy using 2 smaller packs each with an IC for added flexability.

 

I just completed a Battle report from a Tournament I just attended with 3 games, it includes my list, and how I use my Bikes, I'm certainly not saying its the end all, be all, but check it out, it may give you some more ideas.

[Prototype]

Thanks for the replies!

 

littlbitz: Is it worth getting an attack bike, considering the heavy weapon isn't twin linked, and claws only have BS3?

[littlbitz]

Oh yes, everytime!

 

For just 5 points you get a Heavy Bolter an extra wound and an extra attack! Not to mention the different model will help with wound allocation.

 

its actually a bit foolish to not have them in a pack.

[SamaNagol]

They are both fantastic. However they are in an army with the best Troops choices in the game arguably. That means a lot of the points get allocated to other things first.

 

Ahead of JP and Bike Claws I will be spending points on HQs, Wolf Guard and transports first.

[saphius]

Skyclaws are great Point for point except they are no good unless you give them an IC to lead them. - For some reason they can't have a pack leader?

 

Swiftclaws, looking at it just from a gaming perspective, aren't as worth it as Thunderwolf Cav. in my opinion. Compare:

 

1 Tunderwolf: 50Pts, Fast, 2 Wounds, 3+ Save, Rending, Base toughness five, Strength Five, Str 10 Powerfists, WS4, BS4, 6 Attacks on the Charge, 4 otherwise, 1 shot before a charge.

 

2 Swiftclaws: 50Pts, Fast, 2 Wounds, 3+ Save, No Rending, Base toughness four, Strength Four, Str 8 Powerfists, WS3, BS3, 8 Attacks on the charge, 4 otherwise, 4 Shots before a charge.

 

As you can see they are very comparable. The bikes have more shots before a charge, can get a 3+ inv, and more attacks on a charge...

 

The Thunderwolf Cav. Have a higher Str, WS, BS, rending, and most importantly, maintain full effectiveness until two full wounds are done to the model while bikes loose half effectiveness per wound taken. (If you're comparing point for point)

 

Depending on what you want them for the Cav are better in most situations. Though the small to moderate sized Skyclaws I believe are a good way to get some fast moving CC support for Grey Hunters in Rhinos.

 

Point out anything that I missed.

[Prototype]

Does GW plan on releasing Thunderwolves, plastic preferably?

[muzzyman1981]

Skyclaws are our only "deep strike" unit huh? Would be useful in Planetstrike games me thinks

[Grimmwulf]

we also got landspeeders.

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

we also got landspeeders.

 

Well yeah but who is going to use land speeders? I mean honestly, do you know how big a chainsword would have to be for it to be useful with a Land Raider?

[WolfLord Digby]

No wolfguard for skyclaws is no problem...are you people telling me that 'none' of you are even considering a battle leader or wolf priest with a jump pack...

[muzzyman1981]

Wolf Priest leading a bunch of Skyclaws I think is awesome (and fluffy)

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

I have a converted Khârn doing just that job (the axe could do with a bit of a repaint though:

[SamaNagol]

To be honest, my only FA slot usage is Land Speeders.

[rodgers37]

They are both fantastic. However they are in an army with the best Troops choices in the game arguably. That means a lot of the points get allocated to other things first.

 

Ahead of JP and Bike Claws I will be spending points on HQs, Wolf Guard and transports first.

 

Sorry OT, nut i cannot agree with that, ork boyz are easily, for 180pts (i think) you get 29 boyz, and a Nob with a power claw, nothing that costs 180pts can all of that, oh and then wait, there are another 2/3 squads the same in a 1500pt army..... ork boyz are rediclious...

[Vassakov]

I'm sorely tempted to add a big pack of Skyclaws to act as a harassment/response unit. One of the most overlooked issues with Jump Pack Equipped units is the ability to assault over and through terrain features or even other enemy units. They can strike hard and fast at the unprotected flanks, and at just 18pts each are frankly a steal.

[Brother Amarel]

I have tried out 3 units of 5 Skyclaws with just MotW a couple of times now. It was fun, but not particularly effective :D.

 

I think a better use of those points is 1 unit of 7 Skyclaws (MotW and Powersword) and 1 unit of 5 Scouts (Meltagun, MotW, Powersword), but I haven't tried that out yet.

[Levitas]

I'm running full 10 man skyclaw with melta and MoW. Lead by Wolf Lord with Frost blade and warrior born. But with any assault unit they need to close ground quickly and in cover. So I take 5 man swiftclaws with Wolf Guard (thunder hammer & combi melta). The swifts boost then pin units in combat for the skys to hit, its also equipped to open transports fairly effectively.

 

If your taking either then you have to do it properly and make sure they work within the whole setup of the army, large squads. Everything in my list can move 12", but then i'm a speed junkie :P I think both units need ICs or leaders in there (shame skyclaws cant have wolf guard but hay)

 

Fun units, I always max out all my fast attack. Cant wait for plastic thunderwolves!

[eyeslikethunder]

Skyclaws are great Point for point except they are no good unless you give them an IC to lead them. - For some reason they can't have a pack leader?

 

Swiftclaws, looking at it just from a gaming perspective, aren't as worth it as Thunderwolf Cav. in my opinion. Compare:

 

1 Tunderwolf: 50Pts, Fast, 2 Wounds, 3+ Save, Rending, Base toughness five, Strength Five, Str 10 Powerfists, WS4, BS4, 6 Attacks on the Charge, 4 otherwise, 1 shot before a charge.

 

2 Swiftclaws: 50Pts, Fast, 2 Wounds, 3+ Save, No Rending, Base toughness four, Strength Four, Str 8 Powerfists, WS3, BS3, 8 Attacks on the charge, 4 otherwise, 4 Shots before a charge.

 

As you can see they are very comparable. The bikes have more shots before a charge, can get a 3+ inv, and more attacks on a charge...

 

The Thunderwolf Cav. Have a higher Str, WS, BS, rending, and most importantly, maintain full effectiveness until two full wounds are done to the model while bikes loose half effectiveness per wound taken. (If you're comparing point for point)

 

Depending on what you want them for the Cav are better in most situations. Though the small to moderate sized Skyclaws I believe are a good way to get some fast moving CC support for Grey Hunters in Rhinos.

 

Point out anything that I missed.

the bikers get cover save not invulnerable save, their base toughness is not relevent as they only have one wound except for the attack bike.

The bikers have much greater ability to redeploy than thunderwolves due to turbo boost see littlebitz latest Report to see how this useful. While the Twolves have a greater charge distance also maximum number of attacks on the charge is 30 to 45 which is imporatant in deciding if you win combat . but this would balanced out by the Twolves str5 rending

against meq

Twolves

30 attacks 15 hit 10 wound = 4.4 kills

10 SC +AB(this costs 30pts more)

45 attacks 23 hits 11wounds =3.6 kills

 

so as we see the wolves do better but given a leader the bikers could do more shooting damage as they charge making up for it but maybe preventing the charge..

shooting on the charge

5 shots 3.3 hits 1.65 wounds =0.5 kills

20 shots 15 hits 7.5 wounds =2.4 kills with a leader or an attack bike adding to this

 

Skyclaws are my favourite at the moment though as they are cheap and effective but look forward to trying each of these options to its fullest

[Vilhelm]

I'm a huge fan of Skyclaws and Swiftclaws.

 

I never used SW jump packs until this latest codex came out. Now I'm scrambling to get a full 10 assembled and painted. They have already exceeded my expectations in play. I think we are at parity with nilla jumpers- Skyclaws are 2 points cheaper, effectively get an extra power weapon (MoW), and get berserk charge vs they get Leadership 9 Sgt and better BS/WS.

 

Being at parity with nilla jump troops is not a bad thing, as I've always felt they were a good deal. With or without an IC, swiftclaws will pull their weight if you can hug cover for a turn or so and get stuck in with something soft and tender.

 

And, swiftclaws are hands down an awesome deal! 5 points less than marneus calgar pays for bikes? and IIRC, 10 points less than codex attack bikes? Wow. And with Twin Linked Bolters, the difference in BS is not a big deal. (75% hits versus 90%).

 

Headstrong sucks for swiftclaws too, but I plan to use them mainly for close fire support (they still hit 75%!), flanking for occasional anti-tank and perhaps to charge weakened units to challenge objectives.

 

Honestly I could care less that foot slogging blood claws got nerfed, since we now have two new viable options.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I think these are two great options. I still like regular Blood Claws tho.

Here are some reasons to still take Blood Claws over the option of Skyclaws.

1) They can take objectives.

2) Allowed to take more of them:15. (Not that I do this, see next point)

3) For the points difference at taking ten of each, Sky Claws or Blood Claws, you can buy an armored transport for your unit of ten blood claws. (30 point difference, buy the rhino for a few points more)

4) Can take WG pack leader for blood claws.

I didn't compare blood claws to swift claws because they are a totally different unit altogether. All three options are great, but do not write off the regular Blood Claws just because we have these other options.