Anti-armor question

[VonMerrick]

As stated, I have not played a large 40k game in a while and have noticed an increase in the use of armor and with the 5th edition increased vehicle survival,

 

I am working on an 1850 army of Harald’s Deathwolf’s company lead by Canis Wolfborn and the amount of anti tank I’ll need in a major question for me as I want this army to be a competitive against all comers but have limited experience with the recent Guard codex and some others.

 

As stated my army is led by Canis with 2 wolves. The second HQ is a wolf Priest with melta bombs leading a pack of 14 foot slogging blood claws with a Power weapon and a Wolf Guard with a Power fist.I have 2 full squads of grey Hunters in rhinos with Pfs and 2 meltaguns each in rhinos. In addition there is a lone wolf with Claws, and 5 scouts. The scouts have a meltagun and 2 plasma pistols.

 

Now I want a Land Raider for my Terminators as two have hammers and shields, 2 have claws, and 1 has a Frost Blade. My heavy support right now is a Long Fangs pack with 5 Missile launchers, and I’m concerned that isn’t enough long range punch. As such my terminators are in the Raider with Las cannons, which free up the long fangs to target lighter transports and dreadnoughts. I was toying with the idea of trying out the Redeemer as the flamestorm cannons are tempting, and the increased capacity offers me versatility in changing up my lists occassionaly but am unsure of this variant.

 

So please advise me if you more experienced players feel I have enough anti armor in my list and if the Phobos or Redeemer would work better in the list.

[Toasterfree]

IMO i try to have at least enough AT weapons to bring at least 3 tanks under fire in one turn, with varying strengths of weapons.

 

i bring enough anti-transport weapons to try and pop two a turn, and enough anti-big tanks to pop 2 a turn.

 

always bring scouts with melta out the butt. both guns and bombs. you never know when you will bust that land raider or leman russ on turn 3

[Kenmichi]

A 10 man GH pack with 2 Melta guns and a Power Fist is going to cost you 180 points. That is cheap considering what that squad is capable of. 27 normal CC attacks on the charge, 2 melta shots before the charge, and 2 power fist attacks. And because of the pack's point cost you can take two or three, maybe load one or two in Rhinos making them cost only 215.

 

Land Speeders are also great, and lest we forget the classic Dread-Pod drop. Swift Claws, though, I think are designed more for close combat unlike in the C:SM where they can be used as both effectively. And like Toaster said Scouts are absolutely fantastic tank hunters. So you have lots of options, and I recommend taking 2 or 3 especially since some units can play a double role.

[SJumppanen]

I was sort of thinking SW army that would have most of it's AT-weaponry in Meltaguns and CC weapons. But now that i think about it, i think i want enough AT-weapons that i can take out Rhinos and alike very fast and despite any cover saves. Also, if i could have something to kill Tau gunships then that would be good.

 

You know, this is bit difficult to me, as i play WH army and i have some of the most awesome AT units in my disposal (Exorchist and Seraphim(with Canoness)).

[Yeti]

The GHs in rhinos are good, but lack range and the longs fangs are quite versative, but missiles lack the punch to deal with AV13+. The scouts are also quite good ... if they don't decide to hang around the campfire until turn 4 (which my seem to enjoy, which is why I mention it. :D )

 

A standard landraider will give you that little bit of extra long range AT that you'll need against tough tanks. Things like predators and leman russ' tend to stay on the back lines, so you need something that can reach them. The landraider will do that, in a tough package that'll deliver your termis to combat.

[Tamwulf]

How much anti-armor do you need?

 

This is a very subjective question with several factors that must be considered. The biggest consideration is what the metagame is like in your area? Do you have a lot of Imperial Guard players in your area? They typically take more armor then anyone else, and so you will need more AT firepower. Are their a lot of bug players in your area?

 

So take a look at your local gaming group and plan accordingly. Toasterfree has a good rule of thumb, though it seems a bit high to me. The trap to be aware of is taking so much AT firepower that you neglect close combat or scoring squads.

 

My philosophy is that every one of my scoring units should have some kind of way of dealing with armor. Be it a ML, Lascannon, Melta, Melta Bombs, a P-fist... I have found this to be a balanced, all around approach. Then again, I like to include a lot of scoring units and stay away from the more specialized units.

[WG Vrox]

When making a list I ask myself the sacred Tri-Fold question. For each question you should have at least 3 solid answers.

 

What do I have that can deal with Fast Mech such as Eldar and Tau.

What do I have that can deal with mass Mech lists such as IP and SM

What do i have that can deal with the heavy stuff such as LR and Monoliths.

 

For an example, I answered the questions per my list in the army section titled 2k Balanced ( building a GT list)

 

What do I have that can deal with Fast Mech such as Eldar and Tau.

2 LC 2 ML from LF, 2 TLLC from LR, Scouts, and Rockfist in a DP with GH squad should get at least 1 of them buggers. Fen Wolves if I am desperate.

 

What do I have that can deal with mass Mech lists such as IP and SM

2 LC 2 ML from LF, 2 TLLC from LR, Scouts, Rockfist in a DP w/ GH, 6 Melta Guns, 2 Multi Melta. 3 PF in squads

 

What do I have that can deal with the heavy stuff.

Scouts with 2MG, 2 MM, WG w/ChainFist, 4 other MG from GH, Arjac Rockfist and GH.

[Marek Grimfang]

The points you save on our GH's with all their kit as stated above, allows you to get Long Fangs, and spend the points on Lascanons and Plasma Canons.

 

This is where LF's come into play.

 

YEs heavy bolters and multi melta are cheap, but you really need to not skimp when it comes to anti-armour for our lists.

 

Five las canons and split fire! Shazam!

[White Hunter]

I've been struggling with this as well. I think that you need to balance your AT fire. With a Land Raider you can hit 2 targets a turn (most likely you will) and anything under AV 14 you have a great chance of penetrating. Unfortunately other than the Lascannon we don't have anything to take out the the really tough stuff, for that you have to close with Melta. So I always try to make sure I have the ability to get a lascannon shots on that heavy armor (usually I try for 3, 1for each heavy support slot) so at least it can't move without impunity. Then make sure you've got some kind of melta in each unit, and a couple multi-meltas for some range. Add in some missile launchers for extra help popping transports and the AT problem is (hopefully) solved.

[Yeti]

One unit that I find is overlooked in the AT deparment is the dreadnought. While many have used the multi-melta dread in a drop pod, I don't see many people using the longer ranged variants, which also tend to less of a "one hit wonder".

 

There are two basic types of "fire support" dreadnoughts. The TL lascannon/missile dread can put a serious dent in even heavy armor and, being a walker, can fire off both weapons even on the move. Another variant that has proved very effective for me is the 2xTL autocannon dreadnought. Dead cheap at 125pts it's the bane of skimmers and transports. You're almost garanteed to hit 3-4 times, giving the possibility of multiple damage results.

 

A significant advantage that both these dreadnoughts have is their range. Everything fires at 48". Stick him on a flank and try to angle for side shots on tougher vehicles.

[Marek Grimfang]

One unit that I find is overlooked in the AT deparment is the dreadnought. While many have used the multi-melta dread in a drop pod, I don't see many people using the longer ranged variants, which also tend to less of a "one hit wonder".

 

There are two basic types of "fire support" dreadnoughts. The TL lascannon/missile dread can put a serious dent in even heavy armor and, being a walker, can fire off both weapons even on the move. Another variant that has proved very effective for me is the 2xTL autocannon dreadnought. Dead cheap at 125pts it's the bane of skimmers and transports. You're almost garanteed to hit 3-4 times, giving the possibility of multiple damage results.

 

A significant advantage that both these dreadnoughts have is their range. Everything fires at 48". Stick him on a flank and try to angle for side shots on tougher vehicles.

 

True words of advice. I see alot of Dreads used in a way that allows them to get into close combat, but heavy weapon platforms that can move don't always make it into lists.

 

You can also go for the AC + 2x LC Predator. Im not a big fan of upgrading the AC that already comes with the cost of the tank, but the upgraded LC sponsons are a must.