Bloody newbie needs help with khorne...

[ardent_seeker]

Hey guys, I'm working on my first army and I have a couple of questions. My army ideas seem to evolve minute to minute with each new rule I learn. So I'm trying to pin down a consistent, fun, and competitive army that meets my fluff standards. Right now I'm at the very beginning I Have a chaos lord, three troop squads ( one chaos space marines and two berserkers).

 

I'm painting the CSMs red like the khorne zerkers attempting a cohesive World Eaters thing. My question about that is ( remember I'm a noob... haven't even finished the books yet-kind-a-noob) I'd like to through some squads of Thousand sons and some more CSMs painted as Iron Warriors...Kind of emulating Graham Mcneils "Storm Of Iron" ( It just seems like a good balance of tactics and fluff ). Is this acceptable? Does it matter who my lord is? Does anyone have any Ideas where a new player could go with this idea? Or any new Ideas?

 

Oh yeah, one more thing. I haven't assembled my berserkers. How should I Equip the models in a balanced, multi-use way? And finally being so new I don't know what half these bits are...can I build an aspiring champion or something like that...out of the box? What kind of options do I have?

 

alright thanks ( sorry so many questions in one post...I hope I not posting in the place or some other faux pas...If so sorry... )

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

The berzerkers have 2 ways of being equipped, plasma pistols or not. Don't put on the pistols without clips (plasma pistols) and you'll be fine.

You can't really build a zerk AC out of the box-go to your FLGS and trade for some powerfists. Give the champions powerfists and bolt pistols.

 

You can have Thousand Sons, Berzerkers, and regular CSMs in an army all together. You can choose any of the HQ choices and they can have any mark.

You can post army lists in the Chaos Army List Foum. It's great for learning which units are effective.

Ideas about fluff, etc, can go in this forum.

[minigun762]

I'm painting the CSMs red like the khorne zerkers attempting a cohesive World Eaters thing. My question about that is ( remember I'm a noob... haven't even finished the books yet-kind-a-noob) I'd like to through some squads of Thousand sons and some more CSMs painted as Iron Warriors...Kind of emulating Graham Mcneils "Storm Of Iron" ( It just seems like a good balance of tactics and fluff ). Is this acceptable? Does it matter who my lord is? Does anyone have any Ideas where a new player could go with this idea? Or any new Ideas?

I'll give you some back story to catch you up. In Chaos there are 4 major gods, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Khorne and Tzeentch. They all hate each other but Slaanesh hates Khorne the most and Tzeentch hates Nurgle the most. You can have units that are 100% dedicated to a particular god, we typically call these guys "cult troops". Berserkers for example are dedicated to Khorne.

Then we have Chaos Undivided, which is sees Chaos either as a unified force or a pantheon of gods or just a tool to be used.

There is nothing horribly wrong with Berserkers working alongside Thousand Sons or CSMs from another Legion (Iron Warriors in this case), but you'd have to explain why all these units are working together and not with their own respective armies.

It would typically mean that your Chaos Lord would be in the "Undivided" camp, as he's trying to get different units with different beliefs to work together.

On the battlefield, Berserkers are assault units whereas Thousand Sons are shooting units, so the two can work fairly well in that regard. Basic Chaos Marines can kind of do everything well, so they make good filler.

 

Oh yeah, one more thing. I haven't assembled my berserkers. How should I Equip the models in a balanced, multi-use way? And finally being so new I don't know what half these bits are...can I build an aspiring champion or something like that...out of the box? What kind of options do I have?

The best way to build Berserkers is probably 8-10 Marines with an Aspiring Champion with a Power Fist in a Rhino transport.

The Power Fist is the giant oversized glove and I don't think there is one in the Berserker box (there is one in the Chaos Marine box though).

As for as how your Champion looks, most people typically make them a little more decorated, make a back banner or fancy helmet or trophy racks, that kind of thing. The Power Fist would also make him stand out.

 

Anything else we can help you with?

[ardent_seeker]

Thanks alot guys, for a fast and efficient response. You guys really covered it. I do have a couple more questions regarding paint schemes/legion choice.

 

First, with my regular CSMs..Let's say I have four squads of CSMs... theoretically I could have four or more different legions, granted I was playing undivided and had a good reason why? Is that kind of taboo and maybe come off to other players as kind of annoying and confused? Are there benefits to concentrating my forces in just one direction? In other words why would I want to do it one way or the other? I mean what's to stop someone from painting every squad they own a different legion?

 

I know these questions aren't terribly important nor are they smart...I'm just clarifying. I made the mistake of reading the 3e codex before reading the new 5e...now It all kind of blends.

 

Mostly, when I finally do hit the table top with my first army I don't want some laughable atrocity. I'd like my opponent to take me seriously.

 

Lastly I guess...any advice from experienced Players? What direction would you go if you retained your current knowledge but had to go back a build your first army? Anything I should avoid?

[minigun762]

First, with my regular CSMs..Let's say I have four squads of CSMs... theoretically I could have four or more different legions, granted I was playing undivided and had a good reason why? Is that kind of taboo and maybe come off to other players as kind of annoying and confused? Are there benefits to concentrating my forces in just one direction? In other words why would I want to do it one way or the other? I mean what's to stop someone from painting every squad they own a different legion?

Some people (myself included) think it looks a little messy/disorganized to have 3+ color schemes in the same army. Personally I pick one Legion/Chapter/color scheme and only use that to give it a unified look.

Now Chaos is sometimes just a bunch of random madmen working in the same warband for a temporary goal, so its not inappropriate to do it mixed either.

Having said that, I'd try to steer clear of units that would hate each other (see what I said about the chaos gods and their respective Legions).

 

 

 

 

Lastly I guess...any advice from experienced Players? What direction would you go if you retained your current knowledge but had to go back a build your first army? Anything I should avoid?

 

I don't want to write your army list for you, because part of the fun is learning and creating your own army. But some general guidelines will be helpful.

1) Chaos is a short/medium range army. We don't do sit and shoot armies very well. Thats not to say we can't shoot, but you have to be aggressive and mobile with your army. You're not an Imperial Guard gunline. This means that most of your Troop squads will be mounted in Rhinos, which give you mobility and help protect you.

2) Chaos has some of the best troops in the game. Our Cult units are atleast equal if not better then many armies Elites. This means that most any good Chaos army will have a strong foundation of troops, which is good because only troops are scoring units. I like to have atleast 1 troop squad per 500 points as a good start.

3) Its REALLY easy to get caught up in all the upgrades and fancy stuff with Chaos. Don't do it. Keep it simple, lean and mean.

4) Always remember that this is your army. People will give you advice on how to be the most competitive but its up to you to balance list building with your army's own background and using the models you think look cool.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

Lastly I guess...any advice from experienced Players? What direction would you go if you retained your current knowledge but had to go back a build your first army? Anything I should avoid?

I'd do it right this time :P

 

Seriously, though-no possessed. No Dreadnoughts. No Bikers.

 

And the most important thing for any new player:

 

Get your final army list nailed down before you buy more models. I cannot stress how important this is. It saves so much time and money.

[Possessed Marine]

As for explaining away fluff wise why zerks and thousand sons are working together, I personally drop Abaddon on the table

[ardent_seeker]

Thanks for the advice. I think It's a super-smart plan to create an army list first...although I have completely ignored all reasoning and logic to do so! Why? I just Have to be honest...mostly because I suffer "newbie 40k fever" and I'm to excited not to be a little haphazard in planning and buying. Still, I've been pretty consistent...I don't think I've done to much damage yet! What I have been doing is working with in a rough plan. After getting a few squads of CSMs, Berzerkers, and HQ I started getting models within the force organiztional chart that I feel like I will need. Lastly chances are I will work with a few variant list in the beginning Ironing out the details in first few games. I know this is frivolous but it's fun.

 

I have completely dropped thousand sons and have so far kept my troops to just CSMs and Berserkers...after learning more about the World Eaters. Despite going with a kind of close combat direction...I feel like I need Some more shooty types in the mix. I get cold feet specializing even though I prefer to do so. I guess I can always equip some shooty CSMs. I'm using the chaos terminator lord for my HQ. For his entourage I have a terminator squad tooling In a land raider (lot of points and an obvious target I'm sure...still I loved that artillery and transport balance...in fact, in theory, I love this machine).

 

So now I'm revising and working on a new list to suit. I'd like to get some obliteraters or a defiler in the mix to take the heat of the land raider. So over all I'm leaning in a close combat with heavy support direction. Is this viable?

 

A few more questions. Just in overall theory, before hitting up the armoury,wargear, and completing my list proper, does this approach seem competitive? Or am I just fodder for the blood gods? And speaking of blood god ...how can I make my army more World Eater-ish? Lastly any ideas on fast attack use in my army structure?

 

Again thanks for all the help it...keep it coming!

[minigun762]

So now I'm revising and working on a new list to suit. I'd like to get some obliteraters or a defiler in the mix to take the heat of the land raider. So over all I'm leaning in a close combat with heavy support direction. Is this viable?

 

A few more questions. Just in overall theory, before hitting up the armoury,wargear, and completing my list proper, does this approach seem competitive? Or am I just fodder for the blood gods? And speaking of blood god ...how can I make my army more World Eater-ish? Lastly any ideas on fast attack use in my army structure?

 

I think you're on the right track. A Land Raider full of assault supported by CSMs in Rhinos and some ranged heavy choices will be a solid foundation.

If you want to make it more World Eaterish, you'll probably need to drop the CSMs and only run pure Berserkers, however if you're ok with just making it a Khorne themed army and not pure World Eaters, then the CSMs (marked appropriately of course) could easily stay.

 

Obliterators are useful just because they're so damn flexible but I personally prefer Defilers and they seem more Khorney anyway.

 

For Fast attack, the best options are really limited, either 5 man Raptor squads or 3 man Biker squads with 2 special weapons (usually Flamers for infantry or Melta for tanks). Most people just kinda of forget about the Fast Attack options and use Rhino mounted CSMs for the same job because they're scoring as well.