Forseti Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 OK so tomorrow I've got a game vs a friend of a friend, I don't know if it was sportsmanship or he just wanted to make me sweat, but he sent me his list and I'm a tad worried..I've never played(or even met) this guy before, so I don't know what sort of tactics he uses but his list looks straight forward and a bit scary. My mate said the guy was a bit jealous of you USA guys having 'ard boyz, so we decided to make it 2500pts. Here's his list; Vulkan He'stan 8 Sternguard- 2 Heavy Flamers, 5 Combi-Flamers, 2 Combi-Meltas Land Raider - Extra Armour, Multimelta 6 Assault Terminators - all with TH+SS Land Raider Redeemer- Extra Armour, Multimelta, Extra Storm Bolter 6 Assault Terminators - All with TH+SS Land Raider Redeemer- Extra Armour, Multimelta 10 Tacticals - Meltagun, Multimelta, Power Fist, Combi-Flamer, Rhino 10 Tacticals - Meltagun, Multimelta, Power Fist, Combi-Flamer, Rhino 10 Tacticals - Meltagun, Multimelta, Power Fist, Combi-Flamer, Rhino Thats a lot of twin-linked stuff -.- Any suggestions on whats good to use vs Salamanders like this? Would be greatly appreciated heh.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJackal Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Well, I have never fought this sort of list as wolves but it is NOT as scary as it looks. First off is Vulkan. Now because of the transport capacity of thee LR and LRR I think Vulkan might be foot-slogging alone. This will 99% most likely not be the case. He is quite dangerous in CC but will fall eventually, on average if you can wound him 3 times with a s8 or higher weapon he will die. Consider Arjac Rockfist and some Power Weapon termi WG for a nice unit. The Terminators are much he same as He'stan in how to deal with them, enough attacks and they will die. The tactical squads are easy enough to defeat if you pop their transports. The LR and LRR are probably the bbiggest problem but the LRR should be dead long before it reaches you if you use long range weapons ccorrectly. As for your list I suggest sevveral things. HQ: Try a Wolf Lord with saga of the bear, keeps those nasty Melta weapons from Instant Deathing you. Keep your weapons high I, frost blades or the like. ELITES: As said before Arjac Rockfist and some WG Terminators should provide some decent bunch, Arjac can also bust up a LR if he is close enough. TROOPS: Grey Hunters are essential and I suggest Plasma Guns because you are fighting Marines. Kills Terminators quickly, strong enough to hurt a rhino and only 10 points, pretty good if you ask me. FAST ATTACK: I have no suggestions here as I do not use FA very much. HEAVY SUPPORT: Normally I am a huge fan of Vindicators, however against a Vulkan list I suggest massed Long Fangs. At least 2 Lascannons to a squad is advised. Remember Razorbacks for the game and that Fire Control is essential, use the rule to maximise damage. Hope I helped, although I fully expect a more expierienced Long Fang to walk in a tell me to shut my Blood Claw mouth and start dolling out better advice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 I think the Termis are going in the redeemers, and Vulkan is going with the sternguard in the LR. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJackal Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hmm, did you forget to put an extra LR in the list you posted because a unit of Termis is footslogging if you did... Ah well things remain the same for the most part except that Vulkan is with a non-combat unit and has a certain redundancy abot him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Oops, yeah, he had 2 redeemers. I think the big reason for taking vulkan is that he's twinlinking/mastercrafting like 2/3 of the weapons in his list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJackal Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Ahh no worries then. Well with 2 redeemers REALLY consider long fangs. But like i said, putting Vulkan in a sternguard list makes about as much sense as leaving Logan Grimnar with some Long fangs for the entire game AND NOT giving them relentless every turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Not even close to being that scary. And yeah, two squads of two landspeeders with multimeltas to swoop in and bust open a raider each. In fact, heres a list: HQ: 270 Njal Stormcaller- TDA- 270pts. Elites: 561 7 Wolf Gaurd- 531pts. TDA+SS+WC *for with the GHs* Arjac- TDA+2xWC+CML *LFs or Arjacs buddy*. 5x Wolf Scouts- Meltagun, 2xPW, Meltabombs- 130pts Troops: 885pts. 10x Grey Hunters- 2x Plasmarifle, Powerweapon- 175pts. 10x Grey Hunters- 2x Plasmarifle, Powerfist- 185pts. 10x Grey Hunters- 2x Meltagun, Powerweapon- 170pts. 10x Grey Hunters- 2x Meltagun, Powerweapon- 170pts. 10x Grey Hunters- 2x Plasmarifle, Powerfist- 185pts. FA: 240pts. 2x Landspeeder- Multimelta- 120pts. 2x Landspeeder- Multimelta- 120pts. Heavy Support: 435pts. 5x Long Fangs- 2x ML+2xLC- 145pts. 5x Long Fangs- 2x ML+2xLC- 145pts. 5x Long Fangs- 4x Plasmacannon- 155pts. 2491pts. Pop his transports early- and by early I mean pop every single rhino first turn. Move your landspeeders behind cover if you cant get a first turn shot on his landraiders *and with those patterns hell deploy agressively or with a rhino shroud*. And make him pay for not having any true long ranged weaponry. Deploy with Long Fangs in cover and looking out from between GH packs. Use your split fire wisely, and feel free to use the WG CML before you go shooting rhinos with them. Fire Plasmacannons last, and if no raiders are cracked just rip apart a tactical squad. In objective games use the Meltahunters as objective takers and cover them with fire from the long fangs and the Plasmahunters. In KP games just deploy so your speeders and LFs are forward a bit, and then bring your hunters up turn 2-3 depending on how quickly you depose of his transports. Use your superior initiative to win combat aginst his TDA, use your better firepower to kill his tacticals, and heck, his TDA if time allows. The plan acheives a crushing victory, real life should see a strong one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJackal Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 See, listen to Grey Mage hes probably a darn site more expierienced than me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 If i was guard, tau, or maybe eldar I would be scared. I've lost entire fire warrior squads to heavy flamers and it's not fun. But since were the Space Wolves you'll teach our brother chapter that if you play with fire you get burned. It looks like his is a slow army with not much long range but good staying power. Lots of fast assualt, long range, and plasma weapons will ruin his army. If you can get rid of Vulkan then all his nice flamers and meltas can't re-roll. I don't think that he's immune to insta-death, going to need to be checked, so throw skyclaws or swiftclaws with a power fist at him and hope you get him. Also armor will not be your friend here unles you can take a monolith, at most a vindicator will be helpfull. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 See, listen to Grey Mage hes probably a darn site more expierienced than me. Dont worry, I spent the whole time you two were talking making that list. You had some solid advice, and youll notice that alot of what you say and what this list does are very similar. Oh, and Dragon- the mastercrafting function doesnt go away when he dies, the army still includes him on the roster... so they still get the benefit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 And remember his re-rolls are NOT granted to the Redeemers tanks. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 !Killing Vulkan removes the rerolls? Edit: lol damn, I thought I had an idea to annihilate his HQ and somewhat cripple his whole army..BTW I don't own the most recent SM codex atm so I'm kindof blind and going off Army Builder atm I'll spend some time reviewing my list and adding some of the things you mentioned Grey Mage, though there are several things I don't want ^^; sorry heh..Always hated land speeders and named characters. I'd forgotten about LF Plasma Cannons *face palm* I think I had a few of them in my bitz box so tonight might call for some amputations and reattachments.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 !Killing Vulkan removes the rerolls? I'll spend some time reviewing my list and adding some of the things you mentioned Grey Mage, though there are several things I don't want ^^; sorry heh..Always hated land speeders and named characters. I'd forgotten about LF Plasma Cannons *face palm* I think I had a few of them in my bitz box so tonight might call for some amputations and reattachments.. *shrugs* No big, its just an idea for the concept... I never assume itll be used as I write it- few people will ever have all the nessecairy models, or have their own tactical quirks. BTW- Killing Vulkan does NOT remove the rerolls in any way shape or form. And whats your idea for killing the raiders, if not with meltaspeeders? Just for my curiosity? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hmmm I have 4 Lascannons, a couple of chainfists, a few meltaguns and a DP WG squad of 5xcombi-meltas. Since I like to go with few to no tanks, the redeemers are my #1 threat I think. If I can pop those fast, I'm not so worried about taking my time with the godhammer. Thought I think I might be able to spare some points, as I don't see the Wolf Lord I used for my 1750 doing a whole lot in this game, and with all those flamers, Fenrisian Wolves would be suicide, that clears up 338pts or so. I do have 2 Land Speeders with MM sitting around somewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Agreed, while a multimelta will obliterate anything it hits... it still has to hit, and it can only kill one thing at a time. If you were a mounted force, or relied heavily on say... dreadnaughts, youd have issues. As it is a GH force can walk up and smack them around, rapid firing as they go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Yeah but not relying on Dreads and Preds means I need to get upclose, letting those Redeemer Flamers come into play :/ I think the main thing I'll try to focus on having the advantage with will be combat..he has all thunderhammers, so I'll go wolfclaws and try and cut em down before he can swing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Bolters. Lots of them. 1s kill terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 well, from one who does have the most recent marine dex, Vulkan allows re-rolls of all heavy flamers and flamers. the flame cannons on the redeemer tank are called flamestorms. no re-rolls. i had a vulkan opponent try to pull that on me once, i am so happy i had the same codex in my hand that he did. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2154279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autarch-Andrew Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 i would ignore everything except the 3 troops focus everything i got on that and ill probably kill it in 1-2 turns then unless you can table me its a tie in ahilate i would do the same thats 6 kp right there then i would zoom around with my grav-tanks bikes,etc making it so you can get KP off of me.a chessy victory at it is but still a win Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2162016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olgerth Istaarn Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 That is a good looking list, similar to what I've attempted with Salamanders a while ago. He needs to be up close to be scary. Needless to say, if the opponent has long range weapons and successfully turtles, things get rough for the Salamanders. This list has no other tactic but to grimly advance in your general direction... I still have nightmares about entrenched Tau. He has no ace up his sleeve at all - at least I had bikes... Get some Long Fangs, mess up the Land Raiders from afar, then switch to Rhinos. Drown the terminators in a bucket of dice, and assault the Sternguard if you can. Good luck, let us know how it goes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2162043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 heh what's this topic doing back up on 1st page? The game was a week ago >.> Didn't do a report as I completely forgot about taking notes til halfway through 3rd turn, then didn't bother. It was kindof one-sided though as he had set up the terrain sparingly, I think he was expecting more of an assault force to go against so his raiders would advance with little threat. Basic rundown off memory.. He won 1st turn and moved everything forward, a little shooting but no major damage, think he popped a rhino. My turn I made him hate me..Brought in my 2 TDA squads, 1 was 5x combi-melta, the other 5x combi-plasma, melta pack dropped to the side of the Sternguard LR, plasma right infront. Popped the Raider with the Meltas, LR explodes killing 3 of the Sternguard, mass plasma fire killed 4 more. Long Fangs popped one of the redeemers and 1 of the Rhinos, and my Plasma/Bolter Long Fangs dropping 4 Termis..I was happy but kindof felt bad dropping around 1k of his army in a single turn of lucky shooting/unlucky saves. Edit: I was originally planning on customizing my list to face him as it seemed more daunting than it was, but he told me he used it for allcomers so I used my allcomers too(though this has changed drastically after a half dozen rewrites over the last week XD too much cool stuff in new codex) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2162070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olgerth Istaarn Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Congratulations on the win. Mind posting the final version of your list? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2162117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGC Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Congratulations on the win. Mind posting the final version of your list? Ditto Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2162872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 Final version as in what I used for the game or what I'll be using next time? I pretty much dropped the TDA Wolf Guard because a friend pointed out a couple of fatal flaws.. 1)if opponent keeps everything in reserves they'll either be at their mercy when they come on their 1st turn, or they'll have to footslog and likely get caught without using their combi weapons to full effect. 2)I was very lucky on shooting and he had bad luck with cover saves, plasma weapons don't seem so great when the enemy get 4+ cover saves, and when they're not marines it feels like a waste. 3)If my Plasma Wolf Guard pod scattered, he could have disembarked out of LoS/Rapid Fire Range, saving the unit. I use excel for my lists and when I'm tweaking I usually forget to Save As, so my old list got overwritten >.> It was something like; Rune Priest-chooser Wolf Lord-Warrior Born,Thunderwolf,Wolf Claw, Storm Shield 4 packs of GH, 3 in rhinos, 1 in drop pod 3 packs of long fangs, 2 with 3x missile,2xlascannon, 1 with 3x heavy bolter,2xplasma 2 packs of 6 WG in TDA, each with 5 with combi weapons, 4xwolf claws,1x chainfist and 2 with cyclones that joined the las/missile long fangs, 2 drop pods. and I think I had 2 packs of Wolves, a 15 and a 10.. Thats a basic rundown of what I used, sorry but I have an appalling memory, if its a little over/under points i'm probably mixing a few of the rewrites up :/ As for what performed well, the Long Fangs as always did great, Lascannons always focusing on the heaviest armour, if there's few tanks left the missiles go for marines. The Wolf Lord only managed to down 1 squad this game, his wolves mowed down easily by bolters, I think he ended the game tied up in combat with one of the Termi units (1 unit had goodluck with his saves in the whole army). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2162882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneSniperSG Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Well, I have never fought this sort of list as wolves but it is NOT as scary as it looks. First off is Vulkan. Now because of the transport capacity of thee LR and LRR I think Vulkan might be foot-slogging alone. This will 99% most likely not be the case. He is quite dangerous in CC but will fall eventually, on average if you can wound him 3 times with a s8 or higher weapon he will die. Consider Arjac Rockfist and some Power Weapon termi WG for a nice unit. The Terminators are much he same as He'stan in how to deal with them, enough attacks and they will die. The tactical squads are easy enough to defeat if you pop their transports. The LR and LRR are probably the bbiggest problem but the LRR should be dead long before it reaches you if you use long range weapons ccorrectly. As for your list I suggest sevveral things. HQ: Try a Wolf Lord with saga of the bear, keeps those nasty Melta weapons from Instant Deathing you. Keep your weapons high I, frost blades or the like. ELITES: As said before Arjac Rockfist and some WG Terminators should provide some decent bunch, Arjac can also bust up a LR if he is close enough. TROOPS: Grey Hunters are essential and I suggest Plasma Guns because you are fighting Marines. Kills Terminators quickly, strong enough to hurt a rhino and only 10 points, pretty good if you ask me. FAST ATTACK: I have no suggestions here as I do not use FA very much. HEAVY SUPPORT: Normally I am a huge fan of Vindicators, however against a Vulkan list I suggest massed Long Fangs. At least 2 Lascannons to a squad is advised. Remember Razorbacks for the game and that Fire Control is essential, use the rule to maximise damage. Hope I helped, although I fully expect a more expierienced Long Fang to walk in a tell me to shut my Blood Claw mouth and start dolling out better advice. AFAIK, Salamanders use the basic tactical squads. Our Greys and BCs rock the Codex tac squads in CC. Pop the rhinos, and if some squads happen to survive, throw some Blood Claws at them. I've enjoyed great success in CC against Codex Marines this way. Being that he is going to field five transports, two of them will all-round AV14, Long fangs will be your best friend here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182007-is-this-as-scary-as-it-looks/#findComment-2163214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.