Help vs. Tau, Orks, and Necrons

[patchestheclown]

Hey there everybody,

So i have been interested in Warhammer 40k ever since 2000 when i picked up a box of Catachan's the imperial guard codex and a 4th edition codex. I poured over all the pretty pictures and had lots of fun putting together and painting my 20 guys, unfortunatly actually playing 40k escaped me, but the fluff of the universe amazed me. I got sucked into Gaunt's Ghost novel after novel but it was when i first got a hold of Space Wolf that i fell in love with the sons of Russ. Anyway last year i went 50/50 with a friend and bought Assault on Black Reach and made my marines Space Wolves. It was around then that i started looking on the internet for Space Wolf help and i found B&C and lots of talk about a new codex!! (i didnt realize how old the old codex was) So now that the new codex is out i need some help

 

As the topic suggests i need help against Tau, Orks, and Necrons... once some of our friends saw how much fun 40k was they went out and bought armies too! Its always friendly games but we all play to win so the games are always very intense with lots of debate and sometimes yelling. I have had a decent time with all the armies winning more than ive lost (dont think ive ever lost to those Tau hee hee) but the Necron player is starting to scare me...

 

Because the games are friendly we allow proxying of just about anything. So he is telling me he is considering proxying a Night Bringer and possibly 2 additional monoliths to his 1 real one. AHHHhh! I have had the most trouble with the necrons out of all the armies and just imagining possibly 3 monoliths scares the crap out of me. The Night Bringers no armor saves allowed S10 attacks are worrisome but i feel that Logan + some WG TH and Arjac should be able to handle that thing fairly easily. But 3 monoliths!!! My 2 plans that i have come up with are either lots of long fangs with LC's or TWC with TH and get into H2H fast! Any suggestions here would be nice, like do i just ignore the monoliths and force a phase out? Or pound on the monoliths and then turn on the warriors. He tends to bring 2 maxed out squads of warriors and may bring close to 9 wraiths with a lord. (he is a very smart player so... im very nervous)

 

The orks i have been able to handle pretty easily (though after his last loss where my WG termies with 2xWC and WP carved through 2 nob squads without the nobs getting to attack ;) he's getting angry) So i can probably expect some battlewagons/nob bikers pretty soon and maybe some special characters (Ghazkull guy) Any good suggestions with orks? Basically what i do is pound on him with LF missles and CML and then insure that i get the charge. (Not a very smart player so... only a little nervous)

 

The Tau player has 3x maxed out fire warriors pluss some broadsides and a hammer head. I have been able to either tie up or distract his broadsides with wolf scouts so my rhinos can rush his firing line and demolish it the way space wolves do best. Again ive beaten him every time but he may start bringing crisis battle suit teams, any good strategies against them? (a smart player but havent had problems so far so... nervous)

 

thanks in advance guys i have really loved pouring over this forum in the past months, i think i just hit the 200 times visited mark!!! And this is the only forum for 40k i am a part of so i hope that shows just how much i love B&C and my fellow space wolves!!!

[Jonas Stromclaw]

Ok, welcome to the Fang and i'll take your questions in the order I know the most about.

 

Tau: You say you've been doing well so I asume you've figured out tau HATE droppod dreads + OBEL scouts. For the pesky crises suit squads get a nice big bunch of Skyriders and a wolfpriest to keep 'em in line and have happy hunting. The only problem with that would be if he takes farsight who has I 5 so you'd take casualties. If all else fails, LF w/ krak missiles instant death crises suits.

 

Orks: Eh, I'd just add a LS typhoon and/or a WW. Make dead sure that all your basic squads have MoW. Make sure you get the charge agaisnt nobs, dreadnoughts a great 'cause standard ork squads cant hurt them in h2h and you can stick a HF + TLHF on them. 9 dead orks before you charge!

 

Necrons: Hmm, I don't play many necrons. I'd suggest max out on LFs and kill them at range or get in close with GH in rhinos. There is a reason you can have 2 melta guns.

 

All in all, get in close, shoot 'em up, and clean up the rest with your axe!

[stinkenheim]

well in combat against all three you will go first almost all the time as they all have low I (except on some heroes and a couple of necron units- flayed ones)

 

for necrons just kill their troops and force them to phase out. easiest way is power weapons in combat- no WBB roll unless there is a res orb nearby. scarabs are a pain, they won't kill you but are like rippers and will hold up units for ages so shoot them down first. ignore the monolith if your op takes it, it will take too long to kill and you would be better off shooting destroyers if you can.

be carefull about sending your HQ up against pariahs and Lords, warscythes ignore inv saves as well as normal so you need to kill them quick and thats not easy- T5 i think those.

they are suprisingly good against vehicles with thier standard guns, any roll of a 6 to pen armour is auto glance i think so be careful.

Vindis will be very good against all necron units with its high str and high ap.

as i say, force him to phase out by wiping his troops and immortals (don't think any others have WBB). that way even if he doesn't phase out, chances are you will win obj missions by killing his troops off.

 

tau hate anything being close to them. as said drop pods can be handy and OBEL scouts are a must. if he takes an etheral kill it and kill it quick- whirlwind will do that- any units on the board will then have to take a morale check or run. as they tay near the table edge to maximise their shooting they don't have far to go.

rhino rushing is an age old tactic but still works well against tau. take extea armouir on your vehicles to keep them moving and rune priests with stormcaller are a must. pop smoke and use stormmcaller after to keep the cover save. heavy bolter long fangs are a must too, they have the range on fire warriors gunsbut will scythe them down. bikes will be almost impossible for tau to shift when in combat. bloodclaws aren't as effective because they will lose their charge attacks due to defensive grenades. with the whirlwind, use it to target battlesuit units out of sight, they are the main source of pain in a tau army. broadsides will hurt your vehicles, are surprisingly resistant but will only kill a couple of marines a turn so if your vehicles are out of commission, or if you pod leave them and focus on more pressing units.

 

orks are obviously good in combat, but they lack power weapons, part from burna boys. as said if you charge they are only str 3 so will have a hard time hurting yu, plus most units are fearless so if they do lose combat they will be taking even more wounds. use OBEL scouts to take out lootas/big guns as they are the main source of fire power in an ork army. equip as many of your units with flamers to help on the turn they charge. i give all my GH squads flamers and meltaguns because they can deal with anything, instant kill nobs, vehicles and cut through light infantry.

missile launchers on your long fangs are probably the way to go, most prk vehicles are armour 12 or less so they can do them easily, plus you can fire the blast missiles to take out infantry. all ork vehicles are armour 10 at the back so in combat everything can at least glance it.

try and slow down nob units, especially if they have painboys as they are pretty resiliant, although a thunder hammer/power fist armed squad will generally do very well against them. also bloodclaw with a wolf priest will cause a lot of damage to a non meganob unit on thecharge if you use preffered enemy infantry. transpots are less of an issue against orks as you will want to thin them down first. a pred with lascannons would be handy for dealing with mega nob/dreads/kans/battlewagons but i favour (or would if i had one built) a vindicator.

 

dreads are good against all of these armies, and i would stick with the assault cannon against all of them.

terminators are handy against Tau, very good against orks, but less resiliant against some necron units. depends on your loadout but the points could be better invested elsewhere against 'crons.

landraiders are pretty poor against Tau- lots of high strength weapons, but they would be a fire magnet. against crons the are ok, as said they can damage anything at short range. against orks a reddemer will do well,very little shooting will damage it and most ork powerfists will only be str9 so still have a hard time hitting a mobile one.

bloodclaws are pretty ineffective against tau, but usefull, although not essential against the others.

scouts ar superb against tau, handy against orks but just ok against crons.

whirlwinds are almost a must against tau, a certainty against orks but pssibly limited against crons, unless you want to slow a unit down and hope they fail a pinning test.

vindis are awesome aganst crons, pretty good against orks but almost no use against tau.

bikes are pretty good against orks, very handy against tau (if only as a high priority target for them to shoot at) but not essential against crons.

 

think thats about it

[Ikken]

yup can't help you with necrons .

 

How is he running his orks ?

 

if you are chewing through his nobaz that bad , it sounds like he is not running cyber nobz . watch out if he does , I love running them with my orks ,and they are lethal .

has he figured out how to kit them out for wound allocation , or is he running them all with the same gear ?

 

any chance you can give a rough listof what he is playing ?

[patchestheclown]

wow thanks guys this is amazing stuff! Thanks especially for that break down of units, it was priceless

 

Orks he generally runs a mob of 'Ard boys to soak up gunfire (doesnt have any grots) then 2 squads of Nobs with a painboy boss pole and usually gives them all big choppas so they strike at initiative (so no he hasnt figured out wound allocation thing), he sometimes tries out kommandos or just makes more boys, has a killacon/deffdread (whatever he's feeling that game so generally deffdred) sometimes tankbusta's too. The Nobs are where he usually wins games so thats why i built a WG squad to trounce them, he was striking at I3 so i just made sure most my guys had WC and so were striking at I4. The thing that has saved me mostly with his army is that while its usually a horde he only gets 1 unit into combat at a time so i just pick em apart (as i said before not the smartest player but he is learning)

 

im still scared spitless of those monoliths (living armor ahh) but every monolith is 200+ pts not spend on Necron units so his phase out stuff comes even faster!

 

thanks again guys this is all great and hopefully ill be able to post some good wins for the Wolves!!!

[CREATOR_OF_ALL_SINS]

If his necron army is armour and spped heavy, you have to take Devastators(can't remember what they're callde).

Also, the best thing to take out Necrons are Blast weapons especially if he takes them in big blocks.

Also a few drop pods with some dreadnaughts in force him to go for one or the other (dreds or infantry)

[CREATOR_OF_ALL_SINS]

Against Orks:

 

Pretty much all Ork armies have a LOT of infantry.

You don't really have to take things to take away his save but they would be helpful.

 

I reccommend taking Land Raider Crusaders or Vindicators.

These can break his ranks and destroy entire units at once!

[CREATOR_OF_ALL_SINS]

Tau:

 

TAu armies always out range you with 30 ionch range on their guns and only 24 on yours.

Their guns aren't that powerful but make you take a lot of saves.

Mount all your squads in Rhinos or Land raiders and stay in cover from his railguns and powerful weapons.

Drive right up and then unload in your next turn, you are now in rapid fire range!

Obliterate hiM!!! For his battlesuits and stuff, take weapons which take away his saves!!! This is where you use your devastators!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vilhelm]

By odd coincidence, the only 4 armies I have ever owned are Space Wolves, Tau, Orks, and Necrons.

 

Orks are too easy... you are shootier than they are. just stay out of assault range for a couple of turns and double tap those bolters. A whirlwind is a must! Long fangs with heavy bolters, speeders, bikes and attack bikes- these are all a good idea. Your initiative is higher than theirs are, which gives you the edge in h2h, provided you've whittled enough orks down that you don't get bogged. You need to gun down half of them before hand to hand ever happens.

 

Tau are the toughest to develop a strategy against, if they are played skillfully- Drop pods are optimal- rhinos will work, but you'll have to take several to get anything through, as he's got a lot of strength 7 and a little strength 10 firepower. Cheap terminators with storm bolters and power swords may help thin them out as you cross the table. Take down any devilfish transports early, even if it means ignoring that hammerhead for a turn. If he's foot slogging static tau, then just start dropping pie plates and heavy bolter rounds on turn 1. I prefer long fangs to tanks, as they can really take a beating from railguns if you can find some cover. Bikes are solid gold. Scouts are solid platinum. Fenrisian wolves and skyclaws can work, if you can keep them in cover or behind your rhinos for a turn. Bikes help to run down his suits. You'll want lots of guys, and few expensive characters. You don't need to be a kung fu genius to beat tau in hand to hand. A grey hunter can do that job just fine. It's not hard to overwhelm Tau with power suits- as a tau player, one of the things I struggle with is getting enough AP 3 on the table to deal with power armor.

 

Necrons are not that bad... Remember: A Rune priest with the Jaws power is stupid good, because most Necrons' initiative is 2, so they do not like taking initiative tests. Monoliths are points sinks. If he's taking 3, that means their aren't that many shiny metal doods on the table, making it much easier to force a faze out. Necron h2h specialists- wraiths, flayed ones, and pariahs are all middlin' at best. They all have low initiative, Wraiths and Flayed Ones have no power weapons. Pariahs don't help 'crons with phase out, and have few attacks. Wolf Claws are a good option, especially against flayed ones. All necrons should fear you in hand to hand. They also hate vindicators.

 

Ignore the Liths and the Nightbringer for the most part, and focus on faze out. Give them a little lascannon love, and if you take one down, great, but mainly focus on the phase out or on capturing objectives.

 

cheerio

[zaltarech]

yeah drp pod termies with arjac against monolith = one dead monolith lol just get into cc ull bog each other down but ull come out on top with the better cc weapons and more attacks. lf's with plasma canons can sucka out a HUGE chunk of a warrior squad, and wound anything else they got going, charge wraiths u got more attacks and more wounds in just about any unit sw can throw at em. i tend to like plasmaguns better then melta against necron, melta is best killing 1 guy a turn and buddy usual has res orb beside him, plasma can double the amount killed on anything, tho with the nightbringer probably want lascannons for the 3+ to wound, maybe a 3 plasma canon/2 las LF squad, can take out troops and take pot shots at monoliths and the big fella, leaving the rest of ur army to just get up close and personal. the thing i like to remember about necron is hardly any of there fire power is ap2, i mean they have heavy destroyers, at 1 wound and a 3+ save which any of ur heavy weapons can pop and the monoliths big gun, which if its shooting he's not deepstriking through and what not. you tend to get decent saves despite them being a shooty army

[muzzyman1981]

The Nightbringer isn't all that bad, just bring some str5+ weaponry and pour it on him, just the other day I took him out with two wounds going down to Assault Cannon fire....and the last two going down to a Wolf Guard with Frost Axe....Arjac didn't even have to swing.

 

The most annoying part of Necrons are the Monoliths (especially their living metal rule, and the fact the Particle Whip cant be taken out with a weapon destroyed result)...personally I go after the rest of the army to drop him to 25%, which with only a couple squads of warriors and a few other things it shouldn't be that hard. One of the other things about necrons is their Will Be Back rule....power weapons, str 8+ weapons, etc will take them down for good (except if his Lord has a rez orb obviously.

 

I will have to admit though that Necrons are one of the hardest armies I've faced but play smart and to your strengths.

[WolfLordLars]

Having been a Necron player who is currently trying to rebuild his army.. sounds like your friend is making a few common mistakes among new Necron players. He wants all the shiny toys, and forgets about the Necron Achilles heel. Phase Out.

 

Lords, Necron Warriors, Immortals, Flayed Ones, Destroyers, and Heavy Destroyers are the only models that count for this. That means the Monolith, C'Tan, Pariahs, Scarabs, Tomb Spyders, etc.. dont.

 

Common strategy for Necrons is to have a Lord with a Veil of Darkness and Res Orb (allows WBB rolls and the Veil allows Deep Strike Teleporting around the table). They teleport in, shoot the hell out of your unit, you engage on your turn, they Veil out of combat and repeat. If he isnt doing this, your in luck.

 

The best way to run necrons is in layers. You have to have overlapping coverage. Res Orbs have to overlap, Tomb Spyders have to overlap, Monoliths have to overlap, troops have to be in range of each other, etc. If he doesnt have this, when you wipe out a unit and there are no similar units nearby, they dont WBB. So, kill a unit of warriors, and if there are none others nearby (the exact distance I dont recall), they wont get their WBB rolls. Tomb Spyders extend the range of this ability, so check on those and kill them if they are present and you plan to go this route.

 

Destroyers are tough to deal with. Jetbikes (I think) that shoot 3 Str 6 AP4 shots each, usually in units of 4-5. Nasty. Heavy Destroyers are your Terminator/Vehicle killers. Immortals are just an overall pain to deal with, T5 and WBB makes them a tough nut to crack.

 

The key to winning against Necrons is to ignore (more or less) his shiny toys, and focus on the phase out. Take one 'type' of models that are in short supply and visible (lets say he runs two units of 3 destroyers out in front of his army), and focus ALL your firepower into them. If you can wipe out EVERY model of that type from the table, no WBB roll. Yes, it is some wasted firepower.. but denying them their WBB is how you win the game. Go for the smaller units first, then work your way up.

 

Get into close combat. As was said, no save = no WBB without an Orb. Focus on the units that affect phase out, and show him why three monoliths is a horribly silly idea.

 

 

I can say that I can count the number of games I have lost to a necron player on one hand, in spite of having played them dozens of times. When I first got into 40k it was Necrons and Tau that gave me fits, mostly because of the guys that played them, so I learned how to beat them. In time, I also played both armies (Tau and Necrons), which goes a LONG way to finding the ways to deal with them.

 

If you have any Necron specific questions, let me know.

 

 

 

Glad I replied to this, I reminded me I need to decorate up a wolf guard with hunks of destroyed Necron. Copper Necron to be exact. :D