Ragnar and Bloodclaws

[Valerian]

I think we've gotten to the point where this discussion is now on a loop of repeating: "exactly as if the unit had attacked" and "the unit gets +1 attack". Reminds me of the old Miller Lite commercial..."tastes great!"..."less filling!"..."tastes great!"..."less filling!"

 

V

[rahl02]

yes it does:

...-he and any unit he joins gains +d3 bonus attacks when they launch an assault instead of the usual +1

Countercharge:

 

To represent this, when a unit with this rule is assaulted by the enemy it must pass a leadership test. If the test is successful all moedls in the unit get the +1 assault bonus to their attacks, exactly as if they too had assaulted that turn.

 

Emphasis mine of course. Thats the part of Counterattack that allowed our BCs to previously get +2 on a successful LD test, and it worked on Ragnar before aswell. Since BCs mentioned an exemption from this, but his does not I can only assume that nothing has changed here and Ragnar will get his d3 on the counterattack "exactly as if he too had assaulted".

 

Actually it was the rule for Beserk Charge for our 3rd ED codex that stated that instead of the +1 attack bonus we received a +2 attack bonus.

 

BUT Ragnar's Insane Bravado charge bonus DOES NOT work on the counter-attack, only when he LAUNCHES an assault.

 

The 3rd ed rules for Beserk charge was overpowered making Claws and Ragnar hands down obvious choices. That had to be changed. Heaven forbid GW makes us make tough choices for HQ's and other units. Get with the times and stop trying to reword the rules, when something is as clear as LAUNCHES that means when they assault not counter-attack.

 

 

Sorry if that last sentence sounded harsh but it's irratating when people try to bend obvious rules like that.

Im not rewording rules. It says its "exactly as if they too had assaulted that turn"

 

On the turn he counterattacks Ragnar gets +1d3, because thats EXACTLY how he would have done it if he too had assaulted that turn. Wich is how the rule is written.

 

 

Please tell me the page in Codex:SW where it states that when Ragnar gets +d3 attacks when counter attacking. Because on page 55 the rule states as such:

 

Insane Bravado: Ragnar is as glory-hungry as the most ferocious Blood Claw and is famous for his acts of insane heroism against the odds. He and any squad he joins must launch an assault if it is possible to do so. However, Ragnars's reckless assaults are stuff of legend - he and any unit he joins gain +D3 bonus attacks when they launch an assault instead of the usual +1.

 

Now if your going to say it's on the same page as that I'd like to know where it's at. No where in his rule does it state that it works for counter-attack. If anyone tries to say it's because of his Incredible Reflexes well that won't fly either because that's how he gets his 4++ save. So that's not going to work. Neither is War Howl because again that's a completely differant rule as well.

 

So no Ragnar's ability doesn't work on counter-attack.

 

If you try and state that they "counts as" charging then I'll have to throw this at you. Defensive Granades... why would I say that. Well if your counting as charging then defensive grenades remove the charge bonus to units charging., and since you "counts as" charging then I'd have to say that your charge bonus no longer applies.

 

SO pick your battle carefully.

[Wispy]

This will always go in a circle, because someone will say "No, it's only when he launches an assault!" and someone else will point to the counter-attack rule and say "it says here that counter attack is EXACTLY as if he's assaulting, and if it's exactly as if he too is assaulting, he gets insane bravado."

 

There's another thread to this effect in Warseer regarding blight grenades and counter attack, and insane bravado is brought up too. It's kind of amusing, because it goes around and around in the same kind of circles as well.

 

Counter Attack is a terribly written rule, and unfortunately - or fortunately, depending on your perspective (I don't think I could turn down an insane bravado counter attack if I had the opportunity came, even with Defensive Grenades because Furious Charge is still awesome), I think Grey Mage is right because of it.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

the key word is LAUNCH. did they launch the assualt? NO! so how can he benefit from something that he didnt do. does he count as charging to get the +1? YES. just like BCs only get +1 when they CA. if the BC+ Ragnar (which is a waste) were to LAUNCH the assault then yes they get the d3

 

It is the key word and you may wish to check out what it means as a counter attack is also launched

 

So the answer is YES and that throws your whole argument :D