Using devs tactically?

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Is there any practical use for devs other than sitting in the back gun-lining things? What i mean, is does anybody make their dev squads the full 10 men, give them a fist and rhino, and take them in close? I can see some nasty oppertunities for doing things like combat tacticing out of close combat and then blasting them with 4 plasma cannon shots the next round. Or even less risky things like sticking a quad multi-melta squad in the middle of the board (nobody wants to go near that many multi meltas).

[Commander Sasha]

Never move them, never transport them, always deploy somewhere with a good view, fire heavy weapons all 5/6/7 rounds.

3ML 1LC; the meatshield depends on how many points I have left, usually 3-4, they're just above Dozer Blades at the bottom of the shopping list.

Don't leave home without them, area denial as much as direct tactical value.

 

That's how Love&Rockets get used (Never was keen on Gothic names!)

[minigun762]

Is there any practical use for devs other than sitting in the back gun-lining things? What i mean, is does anybody make their dev squads the full 10 men, give them a fist and rhino, and take them in close? I can see some nasty oppertunities for doing things like combat tacticing out of close combat and then blasting them with 4 plasma cannon shots the next round. Or even less risky things like sticking a quad multi-melta squad in the middle of the board (nobody wants to go near that many multi meltas).

 

For Loyalists, I think the 4 Multi-Melta squad is a viable choice in a rhino or Drop Pod.

You lose 1 turn of shooting hopefully and then you are a threat to pretty much any piece of armor on the table.

Its also a fairly cheap squad, I think its less then 240 points for 8 guys and with your fancy 1st turn drop in, properly supported by Rhino squads or other Drop Pod units and it should be a fairly low priority target compared to other targets.

 

Now whether 4 Multi-Meltas in midfield is extremely useful, I'm not sure but I think it can work, of course you can do the same thing with 2-3 Tactical squads with Plasmaguns and Multi-Meltas and those are scoring.

 

I'll be honest though, I think Plasma Cannon spamming is the best option for Devastators. 3-4 S7 blasts is useful against all infantry and MCs and ain't total crap against light armor either.

[deepstrike]

Never move them, never transport them, always deploy somewhere with a good view, fire heavy weapons all 5/6/7 rounds.

Never say never. :D

 

Full strength devastators and combat squading could work if you have the support you need from tactical squad screens and assault squad counter assault. To use them you have to be alot more coordinated with all your infantry to get the most from them. The fact that they cant score pushes them back to pure support for me. I see the best use of marines is combat squading tacticals heavily, but devs mini-maxed with spammed weapons. Meatshields do nothing but eat shots and 30 to 45 points for extra bodies is alot of extra stuff in a marine force.

 

Also the sergeant has a signum so splitting him from the heavies to combat squad him with a fist is a waste of his capabilities.

 

Same problem I have with trying to use havocs as CSM troop selections are so flexible and scoring that anything else seems like a waste.

[Grey Mage]

Using Long Fangs I find I rarely need to move them, so often they are the static part of my army.

 

Devastators? Well a combi-melta could pop a transport and let a PC squad go at them... but its only 1 shot a game so this tactic cant be used again and again and the PCs can frankly hit your own squad and wipe it out.

 

Frankly, while a mobile or combat squaded devastator unit would be interesting I feel that most of the time youd be better off with a Dev squad and a Tac squad.

[Giga]

Nah, I don't think devastators would really profit from being transported around or being given a powerfist. The drop pod idea isn't so bad, but there's really no incentive to do it since sternguard do that just plain better (and are scoring, if you get Pedro).

 

Chaos Havocs, on the other hand, can take a bunch of meltaguns/plasmaguns/flamers at some pretty reasonable prices. Having a squad of 7-8 of them with those weapons, in a rhino, is a viable option, IMHO.

[Koremu]

One of the problems with Devastators is that they suffer really badly from mission randomisation. Dawn of War denies them the ability to deploy into high ground, and a cunning opponent in Spearhead can deny you good deployment fire lanes.

 

With a Transport, this is slightly, but not entirely, alleviated.

 

But IMO it's still not worth taking Devastator Squads, excet under planetstrike conditions.

[Warprat]

On the surface, a Devestator squad and a Tactical squad look pretty much alike. Both have power armor, bolters, and the sarge can take most of the same upgrades. Of course, the big difference is that Devestators can take multiple heavy weapons and Tactical squads are scoring.

 

Most people just deploy Devestators at the back, in cover, and let them blast away with thier heavies. It is effective, but predictable. All your opponent has to do to counter, is to figure out where to place terrain, choose a good side, and deploy with your Devestators in mind. Then once the game starts, thier fire can be avoided or the squad can be targeted by flankers or deepstrike.

 

Problem is, if you move them around, they can't shoot the heavies. I think the solution is the 1st turn Drop Pod. Yes, you still lose out on heavies the turn of drop, but you potentially gain the bolters, bolt pistols, and sarge special (Combi-flamer anyone?). Team these guys up with an assaulty unit like Storm Scouts or some other unit, and they can soften up the enemy squad while the other squad engages. The next turn, the Devestators open up with the heavies. You lose cover, but gain a better spot to fire, with the added advantage of surprise. This would be great to do on a flank, where the long range of the heavies make up for the lack of movement, and half the enemy is too far away to engage.

 

The dropped Devestators can combat squad. They can divide with heavies in both squads and hit two seperate targets.

If long range return fire is light, the heavies can combat squad together, while the other squad moves to rapid fire range. The bolter squad can still provide cover to the heavy squad, if none is available. Or, the squad can stay full and give up heavy fire from time to time in later turns if manuver is needed to deny an objective, get in cover, rapid fire into a blind spot, or even assault.

 

If nothing else, using this sort of tactic once in a while will help keep your opponents off guard. Your once predictable Devestators are now not so predictable... When you wish to deploy, as usual, in cover at the back. Your Drop Pod just lands empty. If you upgrade the pod with a Deathwind Missile Launcher, you can use it to reinforce your Devestators from attack, or provide support to other units. If you take three pods, you can move the landing order around for even better combos.

 

Why should you use Devestators over Sternguard? Besides the obvious Elite slots used for something else, Devestators can take more heavies for the same amount of points. Heavy weapons can be used against armor at long range, while Sternguard combi weapons are best used at short range. Sternguard can take two heavies, but then the squad must remain still to fire. Which is not optimal for Sternguard, but is for Devestators. If you can combine with another unit to give supporting fire with the Devestators, and that is enough, there is really no need for the Sternguards overwheming combi weapons. But, if you need to obliterate a unit on landing, then go with Sternguard.

 

Or, take a unit of both. With three Drop Pods, both can land on the same flank, and work together to kill a unit on the turn of landing. Then the Sternguard move off, while the Devestators fire at range. The main idea being to use your units in a combined arms fashion to support each other. Perhaps using three Drop Pods, maybe use a Dreadnought, Devestaors and Sternguard, with Tacticals in Rhinos. Then add other supporting elements like attack bikes, speeders... whatever.

 

Warprat ;)

[deepstrike]

The problem with the drop pod idea is that you will have to have something to keep the assaulters off you. You are in a disadvantageous position for the enemy but if he has any assault troops then they will be all over you in a hurry. Your best bet is to take second turn then drop in behind his line and away from your army. If he goes after them then he moves away from your whole army wasting turns chasing after the drop pod of devastators or moves on toward your army leaving the devastators sittin pretty.

[templargdt]

I'd never considered drop podding devastators but I think it's a really good idea. You can put them literally anywhere on the table giving you a much better ability to pick an effective spot for them to operate out of. I'll have to try this out!

[Grey Mage]

The problem with the drop pod idea is that you will have to have something to keep the assaulters off you. You are in a disadvantageous position for the enemy but if he has any assault troops then they will be all over you in a hurry. Your best bet is to take second turn then drop in behind his line and away from your army. If he goes after them then he moves away from your whole army wasting turns chasing after the drop pod of devastators or moves on toward your army leaving the devastators sittin pretty.

Nah, Ive thrown LFs into a DP army now and again.

 

You drop in, not right next to the enemy like an idiot but near cover, and then you run into it. Set up your heavies, and next turn start shooting away from a angle your opponent couldnt have predicted a couple turns ago.

 

If you get a board where this isnt a good idea, ie there is no advanced cover you can instead just deploy them normally in your DZ and then drop their pod in early or late as the mission requires.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Devs are static and predictable but that is okay. I agree with Commander Sasha. Being conservative is not a bad thing. :rolleyes:

 

If your foe sets up to avoid them, who has won that encounter? I think you have.

If you have 10 and combat squad them and your foe still can deploy out of TLOS then perhaps he either has a very compact force or you have a lot of terrain and so seems unavoidable eitherway.

 

A moving Pred is not that effective. A shooty Dread is a safer bet if you want to have mobile Heavy shooting that won't get caught out for mobility.

 

You could always give them a Rhino, just in case of DoW. If that doesn't eventuate you can always use it as a mobile screen for them or someone else and you'd still get your points worth.

 

*Scallywag thought - buy them a drop pod and then deploy it in front of enemy Devs already in cover, so the rest of your army get a cover save from his Devs.... is that right or have I missed something?

[PhilArmstrong]

*Scallywag thought - buy them a drop pod and then deploy it in front of enemy Devs already in cover, so the rest of your army get a cover save from his Devs.... is that right or have I missed something?

 

that could work, would have to be fairly lucky with your scatter though. This could work against most shooty lists, stick it in front of a IG heavy weapons squad with autocannons or HB and unless they get very lucky rolls, that pod is completely in their way, give it the missile launcher and you might even take the squad out!

 

The more i think about devs the more I like the idea of them. Giving them a pod or rhino gives them the advantage in dawn of war and also gives the army a cheap LOS blocker (and alternative transport for tacts if their rhino gets blown up first turn)

 

Also, what do people think is the best way to arm their devs?

 

it's tempting to double up ML/PC or ML/HB but in games where you are not combat squading them, the role of the unit clashes with itself...

[tahrikmili]

4 Missile Launchers, 1 Power Fist, 5 Bolters. Rhino. First turn Turbo Charge to the middle of the board, pop smoke. Second turn disembark and unleash hell, deny the table middle to him while your other troops press forward.

 

If I were a regular Space Marine player I'd do it with 4 Multi-Meltas and a Drop Pod. Unfortunately our Drop Pods are horribly priced.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Second turn disembark and unleash hell, deny the table middle to him while your other troops press forward.

 

If you disembark you count as moving and cannot fire the heavies.

[tahrikmili]

Second turn disembark and unleash hell, deny the table middle to him while your other troops press forward.

 

If you disembark you count as moving and cannot fire the heavies.

 

Well you could disembark and hide behind the Rhino after popping smoke 1st turn or fire from the Rhino.

[glsn]

I'm a fan of either 3ML/1LC or 4 PC. I have caused a lot of hurt with both. Next Time I play, I'm thinking of trying 3PC/1ML.