Bike Tactica General

[Dave the Twisted]

I looked back 4 pages and hadn't seen anything like it, so I'm making this a topic for people to share tips and tricks for using Bike squads. I plan on making bikes into a mainstay of my army, although I'm not going for the Bike Captain/Troops all biker army just yet. To give myself a start with them I'm fighting in a "combat patrol" tournament (500pts, compulsory 1 troop, 1 100ptMax HQ) with two 3-man squads of bikes. I'd like to hear some tips on giving them a bit more punch. (The first tip I've gotten so far is to have a decent measuring eye. I got stuck 1 inch out of assault range of Sternguards, and after that, my bikers resembled sponges...)

 

So, if a more experienced player than myself could start us off, what do you do to make your bikes awesome?

[Audun]

Obivously, mobility is your friend, with bikes you're able to move pretty damn far every turn, meaning you can support various parts of your army. Make a feint flank attack which suddenly becomes part of a frontal assault for example, softening up targets for a spearhead attack. Shove in an attackbike for extra "in your face" anti tank, or hang back and blast away with twinlinked bolters and a heavy bolter.

 

But remember not to get overzealous and send your bikes out without support or have something elsewhere that your opponent percives as a greater threat to shoot at instead - but don't count on that, it's only worked once for me because my opponent was fixated on killing rhinos with a vindicator (silly him, my bikes took away his demolisher cannon next turn and my rhino repaired itself!). If you advance too far you'll just get caught up in a charge and that's not good for your bikes because you probably lose or you won't kill enough of them (Combat Tactics is your friend here) and you'll lose your mobility (unless you manage to get away of course) Getting bogged down is not what you want.

 

Space Wolf players can afford to be a bit more aggresive because our bikes come with a bolt pistol and chainsword and counter attack. You'll might want to make a specific role with your squad setup but I generalise and take a flamer, multimelta attack bike, a powerfist, and a powerfist sarge (Wolf Guard leader) which allows them to take a shot at most unit types.

 

Hope this helps a bit

 

(I have twice your posts, therefore, more experianced ;) )

[ShinyRhino]

Ohhh, where do I begin? I'm a harcore biker fan, and run two full squads of 8 with attached attack bikes in my 1750 lists.

 

The one thing you MUST do when using serious bike lists is take large squads. Max 8 plus attack bike is best. Why? Well, because of morale checks and firepower loss to casualties. Theone big disadvantage bikes have when compared to Tactical Squads is lack of ablative wounds. A three man biker squad is about guaranteed to lose either a sergeant or a special weapon every time they take a casualty. Personally, I wouldn't field anything smaller than a five-man squad, though you said you were doing a Combat Patrol, so you're working under different circumstances.

Morale checks will be your BANE. Sure, we have Ld8/9. But you'll fail those when you REALLY can't afford to. Bikes fall back 3d6 inches. If you take a morale check in the first turn of a game, you might find your bikes running off the board in the first turn! It's happened to me many times.

This leads into deployment discussion. Whenever possible, place your bikers either outside LOS, or in reserve. Bikes can turbo boost ontop the table from reserve. That gives you a 24" threat range for capturing objectives late in the game. Use that to your advantage.

Bikes tend to lack the volume of fire that other units have. If you're not sure you can do solid damage with a squad on a given turn, either move them into a LOS blocking situation, or turbo boost for the 3+ cover save. But remember that a 3+ cover save won't protect you from being assaulted. The turbo boost move is invaluable. You can use it to completely redeploy your forces if you find yourself in a bad spot.

Bikers are not typically good in close combat. Power weapons will wreck your day. A Biker Captain with a Relic Blade is a nice prop for a unit, but he won't single-handedly win a combat. However, Bikers are a GREAT tarpit unit in close combat against shooty squads like Devastators and Tau. Your T5 will keep S3 models from bugging you much. A small bike squad can tie up a unit of Pathfinders for the whole game, keeping them from markerlighting your units.

The big 12" move range of bikers is useful for running broken units off the table. Move just close enough to keep those broekn squads from rallying, and you're golden. 6" movers can fall behind whent he opponent is rolling 2d6 to flee.

Attack bikes are a force multiplier. Mot only are they the only heavy weapons available to the unit, but they're also a floatable wound. Taking a single wound on the attack bike can preserve the firepower of a biker for later.

Remember that your bolters are twin-linked! This actually makes you better at shooting than a tactical squad, without factoring in the special/heavy weapons.

Bikes are sooo much better as Troops than as Fast Attack, so consider the Captain on Bike option.

[Koremu]

They make for a great "draw out" unit. Position them "unsupported", let your opponent develop one of his assets to deal with the Bikers... and then Turbo-Boost to somewhere else, leaving the unit the enemy devoted to dealing with your bikes stranded, while your bikes have an impact elsewhere on the field.

 

Example: Tyranid Player wins roll-off, deploys first, then you deploy, refusing one flank. As the Tyranid Player swarms towards the active flank, you reopen the refused flank with your bikes. In response, the Tyranid player has to split one unit off from his push on your main force, at which point you re-refuse the flank. Result: You've effectively disabled one Tyranid Brood just via mobility.

 

If your opponent chooses to ignore the Bikes in this situation, you can roll around the tail of his push on your main force and take down the straggler units on your own terms.

[Dave the Twisted]

Thanks for the tips. And if I actually use them right, I'm that less likely to die horribly!

 

I was planning on buying bikes in large numbers as well as using the mounted captain. Here's a list I'm trying in proxy form on Vassal. (And it'll be a slow work in progress to put on the table...)

 

HQ

-Captain with Bike, Power Claw and Hellfire Rounds

TROOP

-Bike Squad: 8 Bikers, 1 Plasmagun, Sgt with Power Sword, HB Attack Bike

-Bike Squad: 8 Bikers, 2 Meltaguns, Sgt with Power Sword, Multimelta Attack Bike

-Tactical Squad: 10 Men, Plasmagun, HB, Sgt. with Combi-plasmagun. Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon

FAST

-Scout Bike Squad: 5 Bikers, 3 Grenade launchers, Sgt. with Powerfist (Carrying one of the grenade launchers)

-Attack Bike Squad: 3 Attack Bikes, 3 Multimeltas

-Land Speeder Squadron: 3 Speeders, 3 Multimeltas

TOTAL: 1500

 

This is a list I intend on being very armor-unfriendly. As you said, the bikes shoot better than Tactical squads, so they'll be able to deal with infantry as well as armor. The Captain's claw seemed a decent alternative to the Relic Blade. Tear this apart at you leisure.

[ShinyRhino]

HQ

-Captain with Bike, Power Claw and Hellfire Rounds

 

I think you mean Lightning Claw, yes?

Hellfire rounds are nice, but I find that when I attach him to a squad, he never really gets to fully utilize them (firing at high-toughness units where the 2+ to wound really shines). Worth its points though.

Consider artificer armor. The 2+ save allows you to shift a save onto him with very good chances of making it. He's got plenty of spare wounds, even if you mash a roll.

 

TROOP

-Bike Squad: 8 Bikers, 1 Plasmagun, Sgt with Power Sword, HB Attack Bike

 

Why only one plasmagun? Go for two if you can find the points.

 

-Bike Squad: 8 Bikers, 2 Meltaguns, Sgt with Power Sword, Multimelta Attack Bike

 

Consider a powerfist for the sergeant instead of the sword. Meltabombs if you don't want the fist. This squad will be shooting at tanks a lot, and the followup charge from a Fist or Meltabombs can finish off anything yuou failed to annihilate with the melta.

 

-Tactical Squad: 10 Men, Plasmagun, HB, Sgt. with Combi-plasmagun. Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon

 

The pod really doesn't fit the rest of your army...fast and mobile. I know what You're aiming for with the locator beacon and the speeder squadron, but you'll find the tacticals get nuked since they can't move around reliably. Try a Rhino instead.

 

FAST

-Scout Bike Squad: 5 Bikers, 3 Grenade launchers, Sgt. with Powerfist (Carrying one of the grenade launchers)

 

Consider putting your locator beacon on the scout bikers, instead of a pod. Mobile, and able to Infiltrate and Scout move to the perfect spot. You might also like the Land Mines, as terrain is the bane of bike lists. But the mines are only mildly useful, and are more of a psychological thing.

 

-Attack Bike Squad: 3 Attack Bikes, 3 Multimeltas

 

Bog standard, not much else to say about these guys. Tried and true unit for 5th Edition. Make sure they have cover though, or you'll be losing models to shots of S8+. One IG lascannon heavy weapon team will smoke these guys off the table.

 

-Land Speeder Squadron: 3 Speeders, 3 Multimeltas

 

Cheap and fun, though be prepared to lose speeders. Even massed bolter fire can tear apart a speeder squadron now. :lol:

 

TOTAL: 1500

 

You're going to find that bike squads really start to shine at 1750 points. The extra 250 allows you to really synergize and provide some good upgrades to your squads. You might consider another infantry troop unit. The one thing that can make an objective game unwinnable for you is elevated ruins. If someone puts an objective on the third floor of a ruin, you simply cannot contest it. Bikes can't climb levels in ruins, so you need foot troops to do that for you. You can try contesting with speeders, but when they're not moving, they come apart like a wet cereal box.

 

This is a list I intend on being very armor-unfriendly. As you said, the bikes shoot better than Tactical squads, so they'll be able to deal with infantry as well as armor. The Captain's claw seemed a decent alternative to the Relic Blade. Tear this apart at you leisure.

 

It certainly is very armor unfriendly. But don't overestimate your shooting from the bikers. You still need 4s to wound MEQ and Ork Boyz. You'll find that if you rely solely on bolter shooting against a horde that you'll never do enough damage to a unit to bother it.

[Dave the Twisted]

Ah. I completely forgot to write in the Scouts have a second Locator, giving them potential to bring in the Drop Pod, zip to the other end of the table and bring in the Speeders (Or still having the Pod bring in the Speeders if need be). Which means the list I posted isn't a full 1500 either... I'll have the revised list up in a minute.

 

My intention with the Drop Pod though, was to have it come in and pour bolts and 4 plasma shots into whatever it lands in on the first turn. Which means it'll probably be a sacrificial piece...

 

Bike list 1.1

 

HQ

-Captain with Bike, Lightning Claw and Hellfire Rounds

TROOP

-Bike Squad: 8 Bikers, 2 Plasmaguns, Sgt with Power Sword, HB Attack Bike

-Bike Squad: 8 Bikers, 2 Meltaguns, Sgt with Meltabombs, Multimelta Attack Bike

-Tactical Squad: 10 Men, Plasmagun, HB, Sgt. with Combi-plasmagun. Transport: Rhino

FAST

-Scout Bike Squad: 5 Bikers, 3 Grenade launchers, Sgt. with Powerfist, Locator Beacon and Meltabombs (Carrying one of the grenade launchers)

-Attack Bike Squad: 3 Attack Bikes, 3 Multimeltas

-Land Speeder Squadron: 3 Speeders, 3 Multimeltas

TOTAL: 1500

 

I'll figure out something for a 1750 as well.

[Sanctjud]

Here are some linky's:

 

Way of the Water Warrior:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...p;#entry1165681

 

Reaction, Control and Warfare:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=124179

 

B&C's Older Biker Tactica:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=162219

 

My 1500 and then 1850 discussion:

http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=173134.0

http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=179445.0

 

My Bike Tactica/Overview:

http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=182311.0

 

Hope this helps some.

 

My 7 Cents.

[Resv]

I love bikes as well and I am happy to toss out a thought or two, however I believe that Rhino has hit on everything that I might say. Most importantly, as he stated, is supporting your bikes as much as possible with heavy support. The thing that I have discovered lately is that like it or not your on foot troops will never ever do much outside of camp one objective. I have been steadily withering points away from my Tacticals for extra kick with my other units. I always keep a Plasma Cannon on them though, with the way I play I always like to have that template.

 

One of my FAVORITE compliments to my bike squad is a Thunder Fire Cannon. I know having a unit that never ever moves seems counter intuitive but it can pretty accurately lay down 4 blast templates a turn to put down some hurt on what ever your bikes are going after. Also the utility of it's different shells is nothing to ever scoff at.

 

Bikes have the beauty of doing several things very very well. Anti-Infantry, anti-tank, movement, and also denying enemy movement by making a "wall of models." The volume of fire you can get from a full bike squad is frankly stunning. 7 rapid fire twin linked bolters, 2 special weapons, and one Heavy Weapon can tear a hole into just about any infantry unit in the game. I'm also an odd one on these forums as I believe that assaulting with Bikes is a good idea. With so much fire power and good support Assaulting becomes a snap. it is very true that you should never rely on only your Bikes toughness in assault it really doesn't hurt. I don't recommend this for all opponents but I think you might be surprised at what they can accomplish.

 

Assault plays into my next point which is any movement with bikes is good movement. That extra 6 inches from assaulting a weak squad could turn into 9 if you win combat moving you that much closer to where you need to be.

[FabulousRex]

In general, you've got 2 different usages of Bikes in the loyalist SM army: Full-on Biker list or Hybrid. The specific load-out of your squad can determine their usage on the field. This 'tactical' view of bikes is the most basic, what do they have and how do they use it? Strategic army-wide Biker usage depends alot on the general and the list they build for their style.

 

Load-outs:

You've got options. Not a terribly large amount of options, but some decent choices nonetheless. Your first choice is size, how many dudes? Generally, you usually only see 5man mini-Devs, or full on 8+Attack Bike. Why? Because 5 bikes is needed for Scoring Unit status with a Biker Captain, and some people prefer to spam Special/Heavy Weapons, while others prefer toughness and assault abilities from their squads. Large squads can jump into combat with a FistSgt and HQ choice supporting them and do quite well against low-to-moderate assault units of the enemy. Small squads excel more at terrain-jumping and pumping Special/Heavy weapon shots downfield. Their smaller size footprint lets you dash around easier to get at squishy support elements or support the main force with flank attacks.

 

Your second choice is optional Special, Heavy, and Close Combat weaponry. These are significant choices that will vastly effect the Tactical usage of the squad with only a very few changes. Special weapons are the most important, IMO. You get 2 of them, and should -always- take 2 of them in every squad. They're one of the defining features of a Bike Squad, fast powerful short ranged weaponry, and without them you might as well take TacSqds. Flamers are excellent with Bikers, as the speed and multi-template ability will let you roast far more models than you normally could with a Foot-mounted single Flamer. Meltaguns provide Tank and Monstrous Creature hunting capabilities, greatly expanding upon the Bikers' abilities in that area (especially against MCs). Plasmaguns are alot less common, though still quite powerful. They let you target TEQ-level infantry and MCs far more efficiently than you normally could. They are also on Relentless platforms, allowing the 24" single shot at range and speed, letting you skirt the edges of the battlefield staying safe while still providing meaningful firepower. Attack Bikes add Heavy Weapons to the mix. The Heavy Bolter mostly is for large squads that want the staying power, as the Heavy Bolter won't add much to your squad's TL Bolter barrage. The MultiMelta is a more specialized choice, giving one of the best tank-slaying models in the game to your squad. Generally, both add to the squad's survivability via Wound Allocation. For Close Combat, the Powerfist is pretty much your only choice, as the silly rules don't allow the extra attack from a Power Weapon due to not having a Pistol. So it's a large cost to significantly boost CC power, but needs bodies to survive to swing. Worth it for big squads, probably not for smaller squads. You can instead add a Combi-Weapon to a small squad to up their killing power for one turn. Almost always it should match what the squad is carrying so as to benefit from added specialization.

 

The real question of building any particular Bike Squad is their Tactical small-scale role in the army. This varies, but generally it's things like "Anti-Infantry", "Tank-Busters", etc. Bikes have a versatility inherent to the squad that is relevant to such choices. Bog-standard, they lean towards Anti-Infantry, with TL Bolters to mow them down, and T5 to withstand their counterfire. However, they also can do some TankBusting, with amazing Speed and Krak Grenades as standard kit. So don't forget that -all- of your Bike Squads not only are capable of pulling double-duty, but should probably look towards being able to do so within the Tactical scope. Even a full Flamer squad can drop some Kraks down a tank's throat.

[FabulousRex]

Flamer Squads- These squads are all about getting close to roast some troops. You'll rely on this choice against Horde armies, make no mistake!

 

5-man Squad- A fun and killy choice if the Sgt packs a Combi-flamer himself. Slap some melta bombs on and you've got a nice specialized unit that won't break your army if it dies. Potential for massive killing if you face 'lighter' opponents like Orks, IG, or Tau.

 

5+1 Squad- Adding the Attack bike isn't always good for this squad, as a HB won't do much, and the MM takes the focus away from roasting Infantry. However, a marvelous multi-threat unit with a MM and PF sarge, good for Hybrid lists.

 

8+1 Squad- A Full squad packing Flamers is usually best suited to dedicated Assault. Taking a MM might distract you at a critical moment, so the HB remains the best choice. A PF works great here, and this loadout is one of the cheapest to get a large PF squad on the table.

 

Melta Squads- Add some nasty tank-killing power to the squad, though the choice that's the most dependant on playstyle and armylist as they overlap with MM Attack Bike Squads.

 

5-Man Squad- 'Stealthy' Tank-hunting unit. An odd choice, given that MMABs do the same job for cheaper and vastly better. Maybe a PF if you want something to really chase down an Armored Company.

 

5+1 Squad- The Attack Bike can add either more Melta fun or added anti-infantry ability. If you opt for the HB, slapping a Fist on the Sgt will give you a nice multi-role unit to suit either Full or Hybrid bike forces. Bolters and Fist for Infantry, and Meltas+Fist for Tank-slaying.

 

8+1 Squad- Giving meltas to the large squad lets you target tanks, turning the squad into a good multi-purpose unit ideal for Combat Squading. Best with a MMAB to compound your strengths.

 

Plasma Squads- An uncommon choice, as no one likes having an expensive Biker melt themselves, but still worth it in some playstyles.

 

5-Man Squad- A good 'kiting' squad to circle the edge of the battlefield, able to zoom in and double-tap nasty opponents. Needs good midfield squads to cover for them. Would be a great squad for a Powerweapon Sgt if they got the extra attack...

 

5+1 Squad- An interesting choice here. The HB adds more infantry killing to the mix, though not the best for Plasmagunners. The MM matches the PG range and can really let you kite with nastier weaponry, while adding serious tank-busting to the squad. A little too pricy to add a PF for these squads.

 

8+1 Squad- Full squads with Plasma are an odd horse. On the one hand they can reliably go after most any target in the game with a MMAB, on the other hand they're not -that- good at hunting down heavy infantry. You also slightly waste their Kiting abilities by weighing them down with a large footprint. Overall, not that great a choice, IMO.

 

 

Some of my favorites include:

'Roaster Squad'

5+1 Dual Flamer, Combi-Flamer, MultiMelta- An excellent multi-purpose unit that can threaten anything on the board. Dropping 3 flamers is their primary offensive strength, and the MM lets them chase tanks along with the Krak grenades. If you plan on CC though, you'll need HQ support.

 

'Bleeder Squad'

5+1 Dual Plasma, Meltabombs, MultiMelta- Somewhat pricy, but great at skirting the edges of the battle taking potshots at the enemy. This squad usually captures objectives via staying alive at the end of the game due to staying away from threats. Points denial at it's best!

 

'Hammer Squad'

8+1 Dual Melta, Powerfist, MultiMelta- Every army needs one of these, a squad that can really bring the fight to the opponent. In a Full Bike army, this will be your 'main force', since you have no battleline. Don't be stupid with their use, but don't hold back too long, either.

[ShinyRhino]

That's a pretty good writeup, FabulousRex.

One thing I'd add to the 8+1 setups is the ability to Combat Squad. The 8+1 setup with powerfist, dual meltaguns, and a MM Attack Bike is VERY versatile. Want to be able to hit multiple tanks per turn? Combat squad the fist with one meltagun, and the other meltagun alongside the attack bike. The double-melta in the AB squad is good for redundancy of fire. The fist plus meltagun allows you to get in close, and if you fail the meltagun shot, charge in with the fist and krak grenades.

Is your opponent light on vehicles? Combat squad into all-melta, and all-bolter squads. The all-bolter squad can shoot at infantry, and the all-melta can concentrate on the few vehicles the opponent has, or their heavy infantry.

Facing a Nidzilla list? Split the MM bike out with three bolter bikes, and the sergeant with the dual meltaguns. The MM bike can snipe MCs from range, while the fist+meltaguns can maneuver in close and assault after softening the target with those meltaguns.

 

I'd venture my opinion that Bikers are the unit that benefits most from Combat Tactics, out of all units in the Codex.

[Duce]

Some really good tips and discussions here.

 

I'm newly converted to the biker armies. Currently running:

 

Khan on bike,

Command squad (3 lightning claws, 3 storm shields, apoth, comp champ)

 

3x 8 bikers, MM attack bike, 2 melta guns, and fist on sgt.

 

2x 3 MM attack bikes.

 

 

I am finding Khan's outflank to be both useful and a hindrance. It’s great if you put your entire army in and use it to come out turn two on the flanks hitting your enemy's main units. Although through trial and major error I’ve learned its all or one unit. don't do half and half (I barely squeaked a draw due to so few units on board...)

 

Although for the one unit I’m going to put him and the command squad for a nasty flank charge into the enemy lines.

 

Though he's an only ok combat character, furious charge is great yes, hit and run has its timely uses yes... but kit up a captain to the same points and you're getting a s6 attack from relic blade, better armour saves (arti armour and SS) hellfire rounds... so for Khan's price you really need to decide if you want to outflank that nasty command squad or swap for a captain.

 

The full biker squads are great due to allowing me to combat squad on objective missions and for putting 1sgt, 1 melta gun and 1 melta gun and MM attack bike in combat squads for more tank busting options.

 

(For all the below options I’d also drop power fists.)

 

Although I have been looking at dropping the command squad (comes in like 320 points) for 3 land speeders with twin heavy bolters... 18 S5 long range shots from them would make for awesome support.

 

Another option was taking a librarian and swapping khan for a cheap captain and trimming the command squad. this unit would be lethal in hand to hand with 4 flamers and the lib's smite or avenger followed by a rush in.

 

A third option is drop the command squad and khan for a cheap captain with hellfire and add another full bike squad with attack bike (Same as my current squads) sure you lose FNP and all the cool hand to hand members, but you're gaining bodies and more special heavy weapons.

 

On that note, I’m pondering the use of special weapon command squads. 4 flamers (Esp if combined as said before with the lib avenger) would rock, 4 plasma guns even more so if you like risking your guys, but with FNP you're risk is lessened.

 

I do agree on the lack of bodies, my army comes out to 33 odd models which is tiny for me. but the ability to keep 24 inches from the enemy and firing is a gift.

 

For hand to hand I’m still torn on when to do it. The T5 is nice, but don't rely on it as others have said, each loss hurts more than usual due to low model count.

 

 

For biker lists Khan vs captain is the main pondering point. Personalyl I'm just not finding Khan tha timpressive and feel his 3+/4++ saves not worthwhile in handto hand for the price. His instant death power weapon is far too situational for my liking, and as said outflank really should be taken advantage of for his costs, but i'm leaning away from that as its eggs in baske which could not turn up at the fair on time.

 

Another options i'd considered were 1-3 Rifleman dreadnaughts, these could be providing some good long range firepower and hopefully take some low Ap stuff off the poor bikers. Or a landraider with 5 TH/SS termies outflanking instead of the command squad.

[ShinyRhino]

I'd looked at Khan, as well. I just couldn't justify his cost at the time I put my list together. Also, our local shop is hammering out a composition score setup for our tournaments, and you lose a comp point for using special characters. not a debate for this thread.

 

I run 1750 with a bike captain with arty armor, hellfire, relic blade. Two 8+1 bike squads (one with melta x2, PF, MMAB; one with power weapon, and HBAB. Working on making this a 2x plasma, PF, HBAB unit). Two tacticals in Rhinos. Two venerable Dreads (TLLC/ML and AssCan/DCCW+HF) or three standard (same setup, but add a MM/DCCW+HF setup). One Vindicator.

The Vindicator is just there because I have one. I'll be phasing it out for some landspeeders as soon as I get around to building and painting them.

The Dreads are awesome in this list. I use them as "overwatch" units for my tacticals. They can fire downrange, and deter opponents from charging transports forward onto my objectives. However, they don't have Combat Tactics, so you won't be able to outflank them in a Khan list. Rifleman Dreads are cheaper, and end up being the middle road between the two setups I have. I like the idea of them, and plan to snag some Forgeworld autocannons soon to make up mine.

I maintain tacticals in my force because of the elevated objective conundrum. Players at our shop already know to place their objectives up high when facing me, so I have to have some sort of unit that can reach at least the third level of a ruins, or the roof of a building. You can get away without tacticals if you include some speeders or assault Marines. Speeders have that elevated flight stand, and are vehicles, so you can contest those elevated objectives by measuring from the speeder's hull. They can move flat out in the final turns as well, so they're great for last-turn objective grabs.

[River Black]

I too am a hard core bike fan. I normally run an all bike list with two dakka pred for some light anti infantry. Anyway I set this thread in my favorites a while back and I think it is by far the best Bike Army thread on the Bolter and Chain sword. there is a tremendous amount if discussion and I found it very inspiring to say the least. Well enjoy.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=171107

[FabulousRex]

Thanks for the kind words ya'll! I think I'll move away from the basics of Tactical Composition into Strategic List Building and Deployment.

 

So now I've come to grips with the basics of a Bike Squad. But how does it come together in the context of your army? If you've got Rhino TacSqds in your force, you're Partially mounted. This means your Bikers are Outriders that lead the way for your Rhinos, providing covering fire and support for other elements in your force. I'ld say that going all-Melta for Outrider lists is a good choice for your Bikers, so that they can cover for your TacSqds' weaknesses. Assault Marines would be a good follow-up force in addition to the all-important Attack Bike squads. However, I have little experience with such armies, and can only speculate as to their effectiveness and makeup.

 

I prefer all-Mounted armies. You never lose speed due to losing a transport, and your speed is vastly increased as well, allowing for daring gambits and shuffles on your part. You do, however, suffer from a lack of what I call Cowbell. Biker armies -always- need moar Cowbell! 'Critical Mass' isn't just a turn of phrase for Biker Armies, it's a tactical and strategic reality, often a harsh one.

 

What I mean is this: your squads are expensive and somewhat fragile. If you're going to attack an enemy position, you need to be _certain_ that their counter-attack won't wipe your squad out, because it's often a painfully un-even exchange to do so. A 300+pt Bike Squad is a poor exchange for 1/2 of a TacSqd, which is all too often what happens if you attack the enemy directly without support. It will happen, and it will be a painful learning experience. This is why many don't care for Bikers, as they view them in a vacuum. So how do you compensate for this (perceived) weakness? Speed. You can insure that their will be little to no counter-attack from your foe through positioning and range. Look carefully during your movement phase for enemy squads that are just -slightly- seperated from friendly support. You have the speed and mobile firepower on hand to punish such moves from your opponent, even if they are otherwise tactically sound choices for them to make. You need to be swift and brutal with absolutely no chance of the enemy being able to mount resistance. In doing so, you remove whole chunks of the enemy army with little to no loss on your part in overall combat ability, as you will always take casualties during any game. This is harder than it sounds, as the enemy is looking to wear your small maneuverable force down so that it lacks sufficient Cowbell to bother their force.

 

This is how most games end up being played with a Biker Army. Maneuver and Focus Fire vs Attrition. Next, I'll talk about the different units in the SM Codex, and how they tie into a Biker army, if at all.

[ShinyRhino]

This is how most games end up being played with a Biker Army. Maneuver and Focus Fire vs Attrition. Next, I'll talk about the different units in the SM Codex, and how they tie into a Biker army, if at all.

 

100% correct. This is where the bike lacks when stacked against something like the Eldar Jetbike. If you have a savvy opponent, he castles up and wears you out by attrition, while protecting his valuable stuff by denying you the room to maneuver. Eldar can move OVER the enemy to strike at the fleshy underbelly. Our bikes have to carefully time their moves and attacks to not get penned up.

I'm still juggling the balance between fire and maneuver in my army. It's a tough balance to get right.

[FabulousRex]

HQ-

 

There have been many debates over a Generic Captain vs Khan, and in the end it really falls to personal preference. Cpt is better for more shooty-oriented forces while Khan can go on a rampage with his 'Deathstar' Command Squad with Chaplain attached. I prefer the normal Cpt, so that no one part of my army is absolutely vital to my success. I tried such a list for awhile, but little things like lucky Defiler shots and IG Psyker squads tended to destroy 600+pts at one time with far too much regularity, however, YMMV. No matter what, you must have a mounted Cpt or Khan to even field a Biker army, so it's best to use them to their fullest. Khan is set in his weapon and armor choices, all geared towards offensive charging with a Cowbell unit like the CmndSqd. But what of the regular Cpt? Math has shown elsewhere that the Relic Blade is the best all-around CC weapon to take, and with his stats, CC support is his bread and butter. Other choices aren't that bad, Dual Claws lets you make more attacks for more potential kills, while a PW is cheap for an absolute rock-bottom price (1000pt games for instance). Fists and Hammers are usually poor choices, as striking last is not a good idea when you need to thin enemy numbers to keep your Bikers safe. A Hybrid list could get away with it, but not a Pure one. Defensively, you can up both the Armor and/or Inv. Saves of the Cpt to help with survivability. This is usually a good idea, as you're using the Cpt to soak wounds on your Bike squads, his own abilities being un-affected for toting a few scars around. Saving a Biker is almost always a better bet than keeping your Cpt at peak health. To that end, I prefer ArtyArmor over a Storm Shield, and find taking both upgrades to be wasteful. Why? Because the 2+sv is better for soaking up random shooting wounds that manage to make it through your high T5, and losing a Biker to a Lasgun is quite a bad thing, honestly. With a SS, you have a good 3+Inv, which might tempt you to soak a S8 or higher shot on the Cpt, which I feel is too dangerous to do, a Biker is less painful a loss than your entire HQ model. Other upgrades like Hellfire Rounds, Digitial Weapons, Grenade Launchers, etc, are useful if you have spare points, but never build around taking those upgrades unless you have no choice. Points are at a definate premium, and you can't afford Fat.

 

Other HQs vary in ability and effectiveness, though all can be mounted on Bikes if you prefer. Chaplains work great in boosting a CC CmndSqd, and commonly follow Khan around the battlefield smiting the crap out anything they can reach, the ultimate Cowbell. Without a CmndSqd, he enhances a far less powerful CC squad, wasting his effectiveness. You can have a CmndSqd without Khan, and if you do, you might as well take a Chappy along for the ride, no CmndSqd, no Chappy. Pretty simple, right? :lol: Librarians are an interesting force multiplier that enhance various aspects of your army. Teleporting foot squads sounds like a good idea, but you need absolute control on your movement phase, so I advise against Gating units to 'keep up' with your Bikes. All the other powers are situational and up to personal taste, though I quite like Vortex (remember you're on a Relentless platform!) and Null Zone (weakens tough enemy models). Libbys work best in larger games without a CmndSqd in your force, so you can add Cowbell to one of your squads that's quite effective but compact and fast. Just don't throw them at risky squads toting a mean PF-wielder (unless you can guarantee their destruction, Focus Fire FTW!). Masters of the Forge are an interesting choice, and many like the idea of a mobile Conversion Beamer taking potshots the entire game. Pure Bike armies always let the enemy advance, so you can spread them out and pick them off. The C-Beam usually ends up in far too short a range to be all-powerful, but if you have a Hybrid force that can establish a battle line, the MotF with C-Beam can use their terrain-denial to line up long range shots and stay safe against the enemy. In a Pure list, the MotF works best with a Bike and a PW. Still, Elite Techmarines get most of the same benefits for cheaper, so I advise taking them instead (see below for why), plus, it frees up that HQ slot for a more useful Chappy or Libby.

 

Always look to your HQ slots as 'enhancers' to your Bike squads. Even the Cpt works to up your survivability by soaking wounds! Chappies are highly list-dependant (CmndSqd), but work brilliantly if you build around them. Libbies are what I think of for a 2nd HQ in 2000pt games, as he provides vital PsiProtection and useful Psychic enhancements. The MotF I would leave for Hybrid forces that can deny LoS with Rhinos. Just remember, adding moar Cowbell is every HQ's responsibility!

[FabulousRex]

Elites-

 

My my, what a large section to cover! I don't have much experience with most of the choices from this slot, but I will provide musings on how they interact with your Pure Biker army at large. Generally speaking, most of the choices here work best with a Hybrid force that can provide Armor Saturation, as most of the Elite choices either -are- a Vehicle (Dreads), or work best with a Transport (Sterns and Terms). Not that you can't add them to a Pure Bike army, but you will be using them in different ways than with a normal SM list.

 

Sternguard are a nice 'shiny' unit prone to killing a unit dead, then dying in the return fire. Gating is unreliable, Drop Pods are immoble after landing, and a Transport will be quite lonely on the field with no other Armor to help diffuse the AT of the enemy. You can still use them, however, but you're going for a more Hybrid list in doing so. I feel a Razorback would be the best choice here, as the SG are still effective in small squads and the Razor can add more weaponry to your arsenal, and you can -always- use more Cowbell.

 

Termies are either Assault or Tactical. Assault are quite Shiny with this codex, and devestating in a LR of any variety. Carefully consider adding them to your force, as the nigh-mandatory LR means you're making a 500pt commitment. While they are survivable and powerful, the LR will suffer from being likely the only Vehicle in your army, and AssTerms already have a nasty reputation. They probably work best with Khan leading, either in the squad or elsewhere on the field, but this makes Khan armies even -more- top heavy, with few Scoring units and little support firepower. Regular Cpt armies probably won't be able to support them properly, though I haven't tried it. Tactical Termies, however, don't need a LR to operate well, and can fire on the move with great ability. While they're slow in comparison to Bikes, they have nice mid-range weapons and can negotiate terrain without fear of dying. I like adding a squad with the nicely powered-up Cyclone in games over 1500pts. Let them operate semi-independantly, they work great as bait units because your foe might (rightly) fear the unit. Just remember to use the same Focus Fire and shoot'n'scoot tactics your Bikers use, and don't let them take unnecessary risks!

 

Dreads come in many flavors, and operate kinda like a Vehicle version of Termy squads. I use a White Scars army, and by fluff don't take them. However, they can add many useful dimensions to your army. First off though, Venerable Dreads are too pricy IMO, and Ironclads are largely incompatible with the tactics of a Biker army, because applying pressure to the opponent is the opposite of what a speedy army wants to accomplish. Dropping in, the Ironclad will not be supported by the Bikers due to positioning during the first turn, and walking they're just expensive AT bullet catchers unlikely to do much more than die and cost alot of points that could go into an HQ choice. Hybrid forces that are 1/2 Droppods is probably their best element, using the Bikers as Sweeper teams to shore up and support your ground squads as they come in.

 

Which brings us to normal Dreads. They have amazing versatility, being able to provide heavy weapon support on a mobile-ish platform that doesn't die in terrain, and providing one of the few S10 weapons the Marines can bring to bear. However, fielding just 1 means it suffers from 'Lonely Armor Syndrome', though with careful deployment and smart positioning, they can still survive and provide useful support. Taking 2-3 is probably your better bet, and having a MotF around so that they use your normally untouched Heavy Support slots is awesome for a larger game. This isn't quite 'Hybrid', and can be effective due to redundancy. For Biker armies, I -highly- recommend you take a 48" gun for your Dread, so that he can use Range and Movement to stay safe while still supporting your force. Besides, long-range AT is sorely lacking in a Biker army! I think that the Lascannon is the best choice, due to it being extremely accurate and one of the few cost-effective ways of fielding LCs in the entire Codex. However, 'Rifleman' Dreads are super-awesome looking, and provide quite nifty Transport-popping abilities at the cost of CC. Biker armies can afford to lose that CC ability in exchange for safety and niche-filling. I haven't used any Dreads with Bikers, so I think it's best left to personal preference, as both cost roughly the same.

 

Techmarines are my special sweet spot. They are one of the least-fielded units in the SM army, but they come into their own in a Biker army due to their unique Servoharness. Ya see, their CC support is minimal, because of only 1 attack base, and with only 1 wound and IC status, they are quite vunerable if you stick them into assaults. However, that harness comes with a Flamer and TL-PlasmaPistol, and an often-overlooked ability to fire 2 weapons per phase. Slap a combi-flamer on him, and he's roasting 2 templates when you need it most! Add a Techy to a squad, and they gain a nasty alpha-strike capability that is sorely lacking in Biker armies. I find it best to attach him to a Flamer Bike squad with a combi-flamer Sgt. Hordes are always a trouble, and laying down 5 templates is a recipe for success. Toasty, charred, beautiful success! Leave him with his Servoharness for assaults, 2 PF hits is lovely for downing non-CC squads and enemy vehicles. The MotF can do the same job in the HQ slot, but you would waste his CC potential with a combi-weapon, and if you shell out for a Hammer, he becomes both expensive and easy to insta-gib. Not a good combo. Take the Elite Techy, he's cheap and cheerful, with far better focus.

[Sanctjud]

Just a small note.

 

I think Khan on his bike can be pretty comfortable on a large maxed out squad of Troop bikers as well.

Throw in the same supporting Chappy, and one or two Techmarines on bikes (full harness/power weapon) they can hit hard.

Certainly they don't have as many power weapons and inv. saves, but they somewhat balance it out with maximized usage of hit and run coupled with large footprint, numbers, and scoring status.

 

Sadly I will admit this is so far theoryhammer, but I'm looking forward to finishing up my 1250 list and throwing it into a Doubles Tourney environment to see how it goes.

 

The 1250 primarily consists of:

 

Khan on Bike

Techmarine on biker, full harness, power weapon.

Techmarine on biker, full harness, power weapon.

8 Bikers, Fist, 2 Meltas, Hvy Bolter Attack Bike.

 

I'm hoping to maximise combo-charges and abuse hit and run/snaking into the enemy lines.

The techmarines eat up alot of points though, but bring the kill power of roughly a tactical squad in the small little package.

 

What do you guys think?

 

I am personally fond of a regular Captain in smaller games where there is more room to use combat tactics...larger the games means less room and more 'faster/tricks' the opponent gets to get in that back field.

[Corpse.]

There are a few things not mentioned here yet, so I hope you don't mind I fill in a bit.

 

Before I start off I would like to say that the ThunderFire Cannon is a godsend to bike armies. You use subterranian blast (yes the really weak one) and force units to move as if in difficult terrain. This slows down basic infantry, possibly immobilizing transports you cant otherwise take out with the str6 shots. You force enemy bikes to take a dangerous terrain test. You force jump and jet infantry to take TWO dangerous terrain tests. (Re-read pg52, it says start OR ends their move in difficult terrain) but they can pick to walk instead, as its too dangerous, and still have to count as moving in difficult terrain.

 

That weapon has a very powerful record with bike armies around here. Especially with its range to keep it safe if you can manage two in one game on both sides of the 6' table. Be weary of outflankers/deep strikers though. You could use them as cheap excuses to lure short range units there and ignore them the rest of the game. So you can win for losing something with the 100 pt model, very nice addition IMO. You can just take one TFC in a drop pod and with drop pod assault it must arrive first turn so you can put it where its safe in return of losing just one turn in shooting it. That is if you value it that much.

 

Now I get to put on my dunce cap and grin stupidly as I brag about the bike army I sold off because I didn't like it. (Being sarcastic, it did well, I just don't like loyalist armies for some reason)

 

(Get the ravenwing box set for cheaper models)

Land Speeders offered a way to use the 12" rapid fire, and stay out of melee combat. Line up land speeders right next to the enemy and have your bikes behind them. Movement phase comes before shooting/assault so they're blocked off by a line of speeders with the 1" distance rule. Enjoy your rapid fire with this, and an excuse to use heavy flamers/multi meltas. Since they stand so tall on the speeder bases, they see vehicles very cleanly past other models normally and get no obscurity (sometimes not even cover saves with direct line of sight seeing 100% of the enemy units).

 

 

Scout bikes.

I didn't try this but I know its very possible. Since a ravenwing pal does it all the time. Meltabombs on the sergeant, full bike squad and using(abusing) Sicarus' ability to reroll seize the initiative. Also using his leadership to pass LD tests and keep your combat tactics to choose to flee so you can remain mobile/effective.

 

Get the first turn, seize it with the reroll whatever you do get first turn. Run the scout bikes forward with the meltabomb+krak grenades in the unit and charge all the transports you can. If you can get close enough after turbo boosting with the scout move (It was FAQ'd, you can boost before the game starts). You can try to surround the enemy transports and offer no escape when you charge, killing everyone inside. I have done this without using scouts very many times relying on my combat tactics to let me escape melee.

 

For small units, LD10 using Cato Sicarus is a very powerful thing on top of being able to take first turn with a bike army. Otherwise, I suggest Tigerius with everyone in reserves. Tigerius can use his Infinity Gate power to keep up with your army, since he can only use one shooting power a turn. He can even help your units escape melee with that power if you join him up ready to take a charge. You can also abuse him to make sure scout units in troops or other deep strikers arrive later in the game by rerolls (it says you can reroll all). Not to mention that he can remove a daemon armies Inv saves on top of the other powers usefulness.

 

 

My favorite tactic was surrounding the enemy transports and offering no escape when charging their vehicle. Krak grenades, powerfist, one of them hit and I would try to stun the vehicle by shooting it in the back with the bolters before charging. (Thin chance but it worked sometimes)

 

That lead me to use flamers, multi-melta attack bike and powerfist sergeant. Always had to have a powerfist, and with my melee orientation up there I wanted something that made mass casualties at short range and ignores cover which is a bane to charge into, meanwhile using the rapid fire whenever possible. Stay at 12" away while the enemy is in difficult terrain, odds are they wont get close enough on 2x2D6, needing a 6 both rolls to make it to me. Or just get close for flamer fun if I know I can finish them off or make them unable to survive one round of combat if they charged me.

 

With all that shared you can get a feel that bike armies can really cut off the enemy units. If you even face orks, be sure to charge them to make sure they don't get furious charge (wound you on 6's), and their low initiative you can flee when its convenient using combat tactics. Same with necrons and Tau. Flee during their assault phase and your turn is next. Return to shoot and charge, a poor man's hit&run skill.

 

So with abusing leadership abilities, ATSKNF+Combat Tactics, turbo boosting and all that. Its a well rounded army with speed.

 

Though if you really do get hampered by shooting before you start first turn. Tigerius' rerolls to get you on table on turn 2 easier, or later depending on your plan, or Cato's sieze roll. You can depend on something else, take a few units with rhinos, anything even cheap or even packing some razorbacks for firepower. Sit them sideways and have your bikes set up behind them for full cover. Then you can turbo boost the bikes in front of the transports after the transports move, spinning the bikes sideways to block off enough line of sight from low models like other marines (not tank turrets) to offer your transports obscurity. A synergy if you believe it.

 

 

Remember you can combine Khan with Tigerius for the rerolls (though expensive in points) it can be well worth it.

 

You can go with Vulkan as well, if you want rerolls. Every rerolling melta shot is like having an extra gun entirely. pack 3 land speeders with 6 multimeltas, and you now have '8' multi-meltas = 2 devistator squads worth in 210 points. Very powerful.

 

 

Lots of perks everywhere. I go with flamers for the constant results from them, and relying on melee to bring down most things and then fleeing. Allows me to put 25 bikes on one target, then flee when I'm counter charged. Because if I let one unit stay, the rest can get away because of the nature of sweeping advance. (Cool no?) Combat tactics makes the army IMO. I believe its severely hindered if you do not abuse it, thus why I say I don't prefer khan. My mode of melee versus vehicles is somewhat handled by the multi-melta attack bike, and the idea that I assault the blasting tanks first. Otherwise you may want to go with meltaguns instead.

 

Never plasma. Never. I don't care if you can kill 2x the terminators at short range, its really not worth it.

[FabulousRex]

I've thought about attaching Khan to a normal 8+1 bike squad, but the problem (as you mentioned, Santjud) is the large footprint of that squad that will lead to a giant flashing KILL ME sign being assigned to them from your opponent. Khan+Chap+CmndSqd is the same, of course, but you can pimp that squad to be more survivable to heavy weapons and far more killy at the same time. Still, it deserves a playtest. I'm not sure attaching 3-4 ICs to one squad is a good idea, you better hope that none of your other squads need CC support. Also, it suffers against armies that already have extremely weak CC abilities that are looking to goad you into wiping a small squad then eating an entire army's counter fire. I'll still try it out, though!

 

Anyhow, onto Troops.

 

Tactical Squads are the absolute bedrock of a normal SM list. They hold objectives, weathering the storm while offering support fire, rapid-firing Bolter death, and/or charging into Melee if needed. Many excellent guides and posts exist to discuss the best ways to use TacSqds, and I won't expound upon them here. Rather, I'll discuss how TacSqds blend with 2 or more Bike squads supporting them in a Mounted/Mechanized 'Wedge' army, something most people don't discuss, and it deserves consideration. Basically, you can operate in one of 2 ways: you can have your Bikers perform Outrider duty, or you can have your TacSqds split up with Razorbacks and form a Hybrid mobile/shooty army that's quite similiar to an Earth-based army.

 

Outrider-style armies have the Bikes lead the way for the Rhinos, turbo-boosting in front to gain 3+cover saves and 4+cover for the Rhinos behind. But there's more to it than just that. Your bikers need to disrupt the enemy's tactics and provide a safe zone for your Tacs to deploy on objectives and last the game there. To that end, you need some BIG DISTRACTIONS to make sure the enemy doesn't take you apart in 2 waves. Vindicators are lovely for this role, as are Land Raiders of any variety, as well as Predators to a lesser degree. This is an Armored Wedge. You skirmish with your Bikes, protecting the precious TacSqd cargo, while HS tanks charge up the middle of the board providing a distraction/killing potential. Once you deploy your TacSqds, your tanks continue powering through the middle of the opponent's formation, and you turbo your Bikers out to the flanks, ready to circle back after having performed their intial duty. Similar to most MechSM lists these days, honestly, but with an added element of 1st turn protection and objective grabbing/unit chasing potential. Very Fire based. This is where a TH-Cpt or a C-Beam MotF can be extremely handy.

 

Hybrid Razorback armies operate like an Earth army, bunkering up and waiting for the enemy to get close before counter-attacking. This list might be the only non-CmndSqd list that Khan would be good for, as you can have your TacSqds+Support shooting from the first turn in cover, then hit the flanks with your faster Bike-based elements. Thunderfires, Dreads, and Predators can support your firebase without costing alot. The key is to deploy -very- defensively with your heavy weapons, and let the Khan+his friend provide a nasty backfield distraction to the enemy. I want to try this at some point, as it seems very White Scars-y.

 

Scouts are your other, red-headed-stepchild Troops choice. Though I think they can add alot to a Biker force. Sniper scouts can simply camp objectives and annoy the enemy, acting as a poor-man's TacSqd. 5 Scouts with SRifles, camocloaks, and a ML are a decent addition to secure a distant objective. Melee scouts, however, are probably a better bet to add to your force. They can provide good 1st turn distraction, or more importantly, come in Outflanking to catch turtled opponents off guard. Simply deploy with a refused flank against a static foe, who will either match your deployment or spread out for more firing lanes. Either way, those Scouts packing a fist are a nasty counter to them hiding in a corner turtling up to counter your speed. Tactics are bare-bones simple: wait for the Scouts to arrive, then hit the nastiest thing the opponent has, if possible. Cleanup the rest of his army later. Against mobile armies, Combat Squad the Scouts and have them run interference for you, and try to bail them out if they get in over their heads! :blink:

 

Using Scouts+TacSqds+Bikes is quite unorthodox, and not something I've considered. Too many seperate elements operating with different methods on different sections of the field, unsupported. Not a good start, IMO. Plus, you'll suffer from lack of Cowbell, because spamming Troops just means it'll take longer to kill you, because you'll be unable to take out the enemy's high-threat units quickly.

[Brother Sutek]

+++ Just adding to this with my 2 cents, it's been mentioned everywhere but always needs to be repeated "Never forget victory conditions"! When playing bikes you must remember you're almost always outnumbered and must stay focused on getting the most out of your troops at all times. One other thing to mention is to pick a mission for each unit and stick to it! I've lost more than once because I got greedy and tried to grab more kills when I should have stayed the hell out of range of my opp.

[Sanctjud]

Takes a deep breath for fingers....

 

@Corpse:

 

I like the idea of the TFC and the way you describe it…but I just don’t see it being consistent.

 

You don’t like a loyalist army?

Pfft, you have no imagination. COUNT AS.

My biker army is still WIP so far, but:

It’s a chaos army.

Attack Bikes are CSM with hand held hvy weapons riding Juggernaughts.

Bikers are a mix of Loyalist bikers, Chaos Bikers, and the WFB Chaos Knights.

 

HQ characters will either be riding Juggies or look like the Soulhunters from Privateer Press.

 

I second getting the Ravenwing box: NOTE: there are no special weapons for the bikers.

Your suggestion with using the Speeders as Impassible terrain does not work all the time. I will caution that it’s a gamble: risky but rewarding.

 

Scout Bikes:

Ravenwing is 100% scalpel.

SM Bikers are more like a hammer. Scout bikers are IMO a dulled Scalpel, it’s like a Ravenwing biker, but the dulled part is due to the lower armor.

 

Now, I find that Scout Bikers are a taste unit.

They have much utility, but I feel you need take something to work with it to be worth it.

In addition, I personally HATE tactics/tricks that rely on specific conditions going your way, but obviously that’s just me. While YMMV with the stuff that people use Scout bikers for.

 

You talk as if you can freely Combat Tactics…

Sr 3 Orks, Tau in combat, Necrons….don’t forget you ACTUALLY HAVE TO LOSE COMBAT, which is unlikely at least for Tau in combat.

 

I don’t think it’s worth getting Khan and Tiggy in a serious list.

Vulkan Bikers have been discussed, but they only really work in 2000+ games, as most things that maximize Vulkan’s Chapter tactics are all points intensive.

 

Plasma is a taste issue, it has ups and downs, but it is the gun that compliments bikers in terms of operational ranges.

I don’t like plasma guns as well, but their flexibility is undeniable.

 

@FabulousRex:

 

Well, the large footprint is both a blessing and a curse.

But I have 3 such units, heh, so it’s not the only “kill me” unit.

 

IMO, the command squad and the biker squad have roughly the same survivability if you don’t go crazy with storm shields (2), due to the ‘double wounds’ aspect of the biker squad.

Combat is a different issue though, but that’s why Khan/Chappy/Techmarines are there (but this is just for fun though).

 

See, I was gonna use the large footprint as an advantage and catch as many things to charge in one turn as possible: stubborn/fearless stuff is good. A 14 man unit can cover over 60” across the board…

 

For providing cover for rhinos: that’s just iffy.

Higher elevation, tank with high up turret/gun, Skimmers on flying bases, not exactly 50% concealment…..it’s highly iffy. Remember it’s a 3 dimensional game.

 

I like the idea of ‘paving the way’ and Tacs are decent, but I just don’t like them. At least they don’t mesh with the way I play the biker hvy list.

In addition, I’d only run with 2-3 Rhino-borne squads, but I just don’t have enough points for them when I want other options as well. We get into the 2500 to include them…

 

@Brother Sutek:

 

Yes, the biker hvy army is a late game army. Though tough, they can not take 5+ turns of concentrated fire (army wide).

You need to apply force concentration and minimize casualties due to the most likely lower model count as you have said.

[Deus de Mortalis]

Question about combat tactics, won't you get wiped out a lot when you retreat?