No powerfists for Grey Hunters?

[Olgerth Istaarn]

I've been noticing that my Tactical Squads (pre-SW) barely ever got into close combat. With the advent of SW, I find myself investing a total of forty points into CC abilities (powerfist and MoTW) - that's more than a Rhino!

 

I was wondering if chucking the powerfist altogether would be a smart thing to do if I also have a MoTW in the squad. If I can't shoot my way out of a problematic situation (a walker or an MC), perhaps the crazy wolf powers would carry the day with rending?

 

What's your experience with this?

[Toasterfree]

Keep the fist. MOTW is unreliable for rending. its only worked for me now twice out of a ton of games, most of them before the codex was officially released.

[Forseti]

Grey Hunters should get into assault a lot more than Tacticals, we have no heavy weapons so no excuse for them sitting back, and if you're within 12" you really have no reason(ok maybe difficult terrain) for not charging. Tacticals charging = 2 attacks, GH charging =shooting+3 attacks so they get twice as many.

 

If you're not using 10man squads for the free special weapon(like if you have ICs in the unit), or if they're footslogging/Redeemer, you might want to consider not using a GH powerfist and adding a WG with PF in there, extra PF attack each round, and is only 3 points more (not to mention +1LD for the pack).

 

Rending can work, but the dice gods are fickle, and when you need it most you'll probably roll 1 for your attacks and get no 6s for wounds.

 

The only real reason I'm planning on using MoTW in all my squads is I can't think of any good upgrades/additions to my 2500 list for 60pts :/

[Hfran Morkai]

I agree, I would rather keep the powerfist, depends on what any attached wolf guard are equipped with, if you don't have any definitely take a powerfist. Ever had dreadnoughts make it into your lines and struggle to get 6s with krak grenades? I have, I once played a 6 dread list and was able to put them down with powerfists in my packs.

[JamesI]

For a Grey Hunter I would prefer a power weapon. Let the attached Wolf Guard carry the fist.

[Godhead]

You know, when you say the dice gods are fickle, I find myself agreeing and then thinking about how fickle those dice gods are if I don't destroy said dread on a counter charge and then have to suffer through crap rolls with a 1 attack powerfist. I don't many games in these days, but one of the things i'm wanting to try is perhaps using a lone wolf as a counter charge unit to back up my GHs.

 

Actually, I'm planning on using a TLLC/ML dread in my list. After posting I think I could drop the ML arm and use it to back up my home front GH's as counter charge and AT dual role model.

[Valerian]

If you're not using 10man squads for the free special weapon(like if you have ICs in the unit), or if they're footslogging/Redeemer, you might want to consider not using a GH powerfist and adding a WG with PF in there, extra PF attack each round, and is only 3 points more (not to mention +1LD for the pack).

 

The WGL with a Power Fist is actually 2 points less, not 3 points more than a Grey Hunter with Power Fist. The only reason not to take it with a WGL is when you want both special weapons, but are trying to fit in a Rhino or Drop Pod.

 

V

[Valerian]

If you're not using 10man squads for the free special weapon(like if you have ICs in the unit), or if they're footslogging/Redeemer, you might want to consider not using a GH powerfist and adding a WG with PF in there, extra PF attack each round, and is only 3 points more (not to mention +1LD for the pack).

 

The WGL with a Power Fist is actually 2 points less, not 3 points more than a Grey Hunter with Power Fist. The only reason not to take it with a WGL is when you want both special weapons, but are trying to fit in a Rhino or Drop Pod.

 

V

[avatar8481]

but are trying to fit in a Rhino or Drop Pod.

 

which you should be trying to do with each troop squad, since otherwise they're just wound counters.

[Forseti]

Oh I know what I did XD Sorry hehe..I always give my PF WGs a combi weapon, so that takes them up to 3 points more. Always nice to have that extra melta or flamer shot when you need it.

[Grey Mage]

If you're not using 10man squads for the free special weapon(like if you have ICs in the unit), or if they're footslogging/Redeemer, you might want to consider not using a GH powerfist and adding a WG with PF in there, extra PF attack each round, and is only 3 points more (not to mention +1LD for the pack).

 

The WGL with a Power Fist is actually 2 points less, not 3 points more than a Grey Hunter with Power Fist. The only reason not to take it with a WGL is when you want both special weapons, but are trying to fit in a Rhino or Drop Pod.

 

V

Agreed... an extra attack, just as much bolter dakka, and leadership 9 and its costs two points LESS?

 

Well thats a no brainer.

[lokeiSHP]

MoW is no replacement for a PF. Rending is unreliable in this case due to the limited number of attacks in comparison to units where all models rend. The real meat of MoW is the high number of attacks that particular GH model can have in close combat. Rending is just the extra special cherry on top.

[Max_Dammit]

Id rather give the GH the fist and the guard meltabombs, its 2 attack from 2 different models, if you lose the guard than your stuck, and as for mark, better that than nothing :rolleyes:

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I take the opposite approach, running clean squads. My GH's only ever have a Plasmagun no other upgrades. I use them to take on objectives and frag enemy grunts.

 

Same with my Blood Claws, i run 9 with no upgrades led by a toole dup WP. I have a 5x Lascannon Long fang pack and 2 Vindicators for anti-tank and anti-tough guy work.

[megamat008]

My favourite combo is MotW and Wolf Banner.

 

When you activate the Banner, the MotW IS reliable, I once killed a Wych Drachite and his retinue this way. :P

 

25 pts for 5 attacks at S10 for a PF on Thunderwolves is the right price, but is a ripoff on GH with at best 2 attacks at S8.

 

GH are meant to take down vehicles or basic troops, a task they accomplish well, but taking on MCs is a job for the Lone Wolves or Thunderwolves.

[Hfran Morkai]

GH are meant to take down vehicles or basic troops, a task they accomplish well, but taking on MCs is a job for the Lone Wolves or Thunderwolves.

 

Indeed but you have to acknowledge that sometimes you don't direct the battle, though if you have a sound sense of tactics monstrous creatures should have been engaged at range or with a unit capable of holding, eg wolf guard.

[megamat008]

GH are meant to take down vehicles or basic troops, a task they accomplish well, but taking on MCs is a job for the Lone Wolves or Thunderwolves.

 

Indeed but you have to acknowledge that sometimes you don't direct the battle, though if you have a sound sense of tactics monstrous creatures should have been engaged at range or with a unit capable of holding, eg wolf guard.

 

Exactly what I meant, that's why I don't leave the Fang without 10 ML armed Long Fangs and at least two Rune Priests with Living Lightning ^_^

[zaltarech]

beware those 2+ save carni's tho they take more specific guns <_<

[Hfran Morkai]

GH are meant to take down vehicles or basic troops, a task they accomplish well, but taking on MCs is a job for the Lone Wolves or Thunderwolves.

 

Indeed but you have to acknowledge that sometimes you don't direct the battle, though if you have a sound sense of tactics monstrous creatures should have been engaged at range or with a unit capable of holding, eg wolf guard.

 

Exactly what I meant, that's why I don't leave the Fang without 10 ML armed Long Fangs and at least two Rune Priests with Living Lightning ;)

 

I understand what you meant but there will be that time when your Long Fangs fail (Pray to Russ it doesn't!0 And then you ave a rampaging carnifex running amok in your squads, sure with 5th ed he can't consolidate into a squad but if he's lucky he won't break the squad in his turn and finish you off in your assault phase, leaving him open to maul another squad. Which is why I run a powerfist and WG with thunder hammer in my "assault based" hunter packs with a powerfist in the support ones.

 

It's a lot of points but there will be a time when strength 8 will be greatly appreciated.

[Wispy]

GH are meant to take down vehicles or basic troops, a task they accomplish well, but taking on MCs is a job for the Lone Wolves or Thunderwolves.

 

Indeed but you have to acknowledge that sometimes you don't direct the battle, though if you have a sound sense of tactics monstrous creatures should have been engaged at range or with a unit capable of holding, eg wolf guard.

Err, with two plasma guns, Grey Hunters ARE the unit to be engaging Monstrous Creatures with at range.

[Hfran Morkai]

GH are meant to take down vehicles or basic troops, a task they accomplish well, but taking on MCs is a job for the Lone Wolves or Thunderwolves.

 

Indeed but you have to acknowledge that sometimes you don't direct the battle, though if you have a sound sense of tactics monstrous creatures should have been engaged at range or with a unit capable of holding, eg wolf guard.

Err, with two plasma guns, Grey Hunters ARE the unit to be engaging Monstrous Creatures with at range.

 

Two shots at 24 inches? Statistically one will hit and then that has to wound, against a Carnifex that's a four needed, sure no save but again a 50/50 chance.

 

That fex gets within 12 inches and you have to kill it. Say two hit (more likely three methinks) then again you have to wound. So one or two wounds, and a still fully functioning carnifex. Obviously bolter CAN down a fex but you have to roll well.

 

Long Range firepower is helpful but nothing substitutes putting something in each pack capable of dealing the pain to something big and nasty.

[megamat008]

Two shots at 24 inches? Statistically one will hit and then that has to wound, against a Carnifex that's a four needed, sure no save but again a 50/50 chance.

 

That fex gets within 12 inches and you have to kill it. Say two hit (more likely three methinks) then again you have to wound. So one or two wounds, and a still fully functioning carnifex. Obviously bolter CAN down a fex but you have to roll well.

 

I was about to reply the same thing :)

 

2 plasma guns are not what I call long range firepower.

 

On the other hand 10 S8 shots at 48" and 3D6 S7 shots with and unlimited range are indeed very long range heavy firepower.

 

 

Long Range firepower is helpful but nothing substitutes putting something in each pack capable of dealing the pain to something big and nasty.

I also get your point but again you should always have Lone Wolves, Thunderwolves or Wolf Guards in close support of your GH squads, even if they pod quite far away from your lines.

 

They deal with theses threats (MCs, Walkers...) much better and often for cheaper than GHs.

[Raulmichile]

In my 3GH squads I usually equip one with PF, meltagun and plasma pistol, backed up with a WGL with PF. This squad is geared to destroy really tough opponents/tanks. The other is equipped with power weapon and 2 plasma guns for some dakka support. The third is armed with power weapon, 2 flamers, MoTW, and standard, occasionally accompained by a WGL with combi and fist/wolf claw to engage hordes.

 

In short, I wouldn't equip every GH pack with fists. Only the one(s) with which you wan't to tie up really tough opponents and only in a support role for a WGL with fist so that you will have a healthy 5 fists attack when charging/countercharging. For the other ones, only power weapons. Power fists are really designed for models with more than one attack in their profile.

 

My two cents.

[Hfran Morkai]

I also get your point but again you should always have Lone Wolves, Thunderwolves or Wolf Guards in close support of your GH squads, even if they pod quite far away from your lines.

 

They deal with theses threats (MCs, Walkers...) much better and often for cheaper than GHs.

 

I can see where you're coming from and I think we just have to agree that we have different ways of dealing with threats. Then again I've hardly played with the new dex but I don't have room at 1500 points for a independent unit of wolf guard and I'm not sure about lone wolves yet.

 

But some interesting ideas I might have to try out with my own lists.

[megamat008]

I can see where you're coming from and I think we just have to agree that we have different ways of dealing with threats. Then again I've hardly played with the new dex but I don't have room at 1500 points for a independent unit of wolf guard and I'm not sure about lone wolves yet.

 

But some interesting ideas I might have to try out with my own lists.

Indeed, the game would be boring if we all had the same lists :)

 

IMHO Lone Wolves are the best speed bump in the game. Run them in front of you Rhinos/Long Fangs/ LRs... and the enemy will be forced to deal with them.

 

If you equip them with TDA and a SS, they'll absorb a ton of firepower, which could have been directed at the aforementioned units.