ShinyRhino Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 So, I'm bound and determined to use a full 10-man squad of these guys someday. In a perfect world, I'd find a way to put 3 full 10-man squads of them into a list, lol. The fluff is awesome, and the modelling opportunities are great. But, as we all know, people deride them as an Elites choice because of their points cost. But, I was examining the unit entry for some way to make them viable, and realized that maybe they're a solid TEQ-killer/tarpitter unit. One thing that makes dedicated CC units so powerful in assault is the usage if power attacks. Hammernators, Terminators, Banshees, Meganobz, Genestealers, Fexxen, etc. All of these have the potential to ignore armour saves, which is the Marine army's greatest asset, the 3+ save. Legion have a 3+ save that can't be ignored by anything (except Grey Knights and a few other special weapons/powers). This makes them far more resilient against these CC units. The other thing that makes for a strong CC unit is a solid armor save. Terminators, Nobz, etc all have that great 2+ armor save, making them a tough kill. We all know the best way to bypass that is plasma or melta. If you combine these ideas, it seems somewhat logical that Legion squads are a GREAT way to deliver "surprise plasma" into close proximity with these units. Take a 10-man squad of Legion, and arm them with a plasmagun and a plasma cannon. Deepstrike the Legion close to a unit of Terminators or TEQ unit. Since the Legion are Relentless due to the Slow and Purposeful restriction, they can fire out the plasma cannon and the plasma gun on arrival. You should end up with some nice wounds on the TEQ unit. The Legion cannot be ignored, since they will continue to pepper the TEQs with plasma if moved away from. If the TEQ assault the Legion, you have the benefit of the 3+ invulnerable saves to keep you tarpitting for a while. 2 base attacks can also put out some volume of dice in combat. Yes, it's an exorbitant price to pay for such a unit. Yes, Devestators or Tacticals with plasma weapons can fire 36" across the board from Turn One. but the Legion have the advantage of not being on the table until they arrive from reserve, allowing you to pinpoint your plasma delivery, or even get into your opponent's backfield. I posited the idea over on DakkaDakka, and was run off as a moron. Thoughts here? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 i like them, but havent the money or bravery to try them out. i think 3 squads would be a little excessive but a 10 man squad would be great fun to use! when you get around to trying them keep us updated on how they work out! i think the biggest problem youll face is against hordes or massed fire, 3++ is great against everything except massed attacks/shots Gc08 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-2156916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 They are an interesting kind of shock trooper in your context here, since they pack only reasonable punch (tactical squad level fire) but are extraordinarily durable. A "slow and steady wins the race" style unit. Where as most shock troopers are very hard-hitting (e.g. sternguard drop pod) they're usually expensive and not as plentiful as a tac squad...fewer ablative wounds, expensive models lost faster, etc. I think these guys would either go disregarded as a tac squad (in which case they'd lay down a lot of rapid fire which could cut up melee-based units) or they'll soak a lot of fire as a player tries desperately to kill them. With a 3++, only massed fire will really do the trick...no AP fanciess like plasma cannons or frag missiles will stack kills on them easily as they would a normal squad. Are they worth the points? I'd say go for it. But then again, I do run a foot-slogging vanguard. Between you and me, if I could kit LotD out with power weapons, I would field them in a heartbeat. EDIT: typo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-2156921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I like the idea of them in a list and think they can fit into the right list. I like the idea of 8 of them, with a Plasma gun and Plasma cannon, dropping down and unleashing a world of pain where it is needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-2157026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Why deep strike when you can treat them like Loyalist Thousand Sons and just walk up the board from turn one? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-2157113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 can they fire heavy weapons with slow and purposeful or is that relentless only special rule?? Gc08 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-2157120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougemeister Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 can they fire heavy weapons with slow and purposeful or is that relentless only special rule?? Gc08 Slow and purposeful gives Relentless Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-2157123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Legion of the Damned could be fun, but that's about it. They're so horribly overpriced (check the price of the flamer and the multimelta, lol), while at the same time they're nothing but a bunch of tactical marines with slow and purposeful and an invulnerable save. Just about anything they can do, other units can do better in bigger amounts. They're cool if you wanna fool around, but for a competitive list... Not really. Why deep strike when you can treat them like Loyalist Thousand Sons and just walk up the board from turn one? Their special rules ("Aid Unlooked For") state that they must always start the game in reserve. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-2157132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutteman Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I can see them being fun and useful. Just need to use them right like everything. (Note this is all theory, never run them) You'd need to make sure you take full advantage of their save being invun, as Thade rightly said massed fire will kill them as quick as it would normal tacticals so perhaps giving them the "toughest" job as in taking on power weapons etc? I will watch this thread now, cos I want to convert a sqaud of LotD and I want to be able to use them right, I will discount no unit in the C:SM list. Mainly cos if I can't use it right I'm not trying hard enough...(so most f it's useless to me :lol: ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-2157183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Remiel Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 The "plasma surprise" is a pretty good idea but will only work a couple of times before your opponent(s) get wise and figure out a counter. Yes, they should not be ignored by your opponent but I am sure they will look to making them a costly investment (e.g., destroying them quickly). But Giga is correct that they are rather overpriced for being competitive. Personally, it is not about what they can do but how COOL they are (i.e., fluff, etc) However, their durability does make your idea a very effective (and potentially nasty) use for them. Their colour (i.e., fluff) is their big attraction. This is why I have collected such large numbers of them. And now I am looking forward to the new Legion figures to which GW has given us a sneak peak. If you are really interested in the Legion of the Damned in large formations, you might also look at their Apocalypse Datasheet pdf which allows you not only tactical squads, but dreadnoughts and terminators as well (Woot!!). While you do not get the same benefits as regular 40k legionaires (Terrifying & Strike Force versus Slow and Purposeful & Aid Unlooked For), they are quite similar and allow to scratch that itch to have more than 3 squads (I am working on 2 companies using mostly OOP Legion figures). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-2157264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I do like the apoc LotD, 100 points to give any number of tacs and terms feal no pain, sure I'll take that. Of course coded LotD get invulnerable saves and slow and purposeful. Anyway I will do a littlemathhammer on these guys for you. But on a cursery glance it seams like they would be great vs most CC elites and monsterous creatures. For the price of a 5man terminator squad, you can have a 5 man Lotd with a fist and plasma cannon. Edit Quick calculations vs terminators 5man LotD (with fist), no charges, no shooting (cus the math is fast an easy that way) I would suspect shooting would give advantage to LotD (assuming a plasma canon is involved) vs 5 man Tac Terminators (preserve serg) LotD victory, 3 game turns (6 assault phases), 1.5 LotD remaining, classification: tarpit. vs 5 man Tac Terminators (sacrifice serg) LotD victory, 3 game turns (6 assault phases), 1.1 LotD remaining, classification: tarpit. Vs 5 man LC assault terminators LotD DEFEAT, 2 game turns (3 assult phases), 2.6 terminators left, classification: Bad Idea Vs 5 man Hammer Terms LotD DEFEAT, 3 game turns (6 assult phases), 2.4 terminators left, classification: Road Bump Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-2158185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Quick calculations vs terminators5man LotD (with fist), no charges, no shooting (cus the math is fast an easy that way) I would suspect shooting would give advantage to LotD (assuming a plasma canon is involved) vs 5 man Tac Terminators (preserve serg) LotD victory, 3 game turns (6 assault phases), 1.5 LotD remaining, classification: tarpit. vs 5 man Tac Terminators (sacrifice serg) LotD victory, 3 game turns (6 assault phases), 1.1 LotD remaining, classification: tarpit. Vs 5 man LC assault terminators LotD DEFEAT, 2 game turns (3 assult phases), 2.6 terminators left, classification: Bad Idea Vs 5 man Hammer Terms LotD DEFEAT, 3 game turns (6 assult phases), 2.4 terminators left, classification: Road Bump That's a great assessment. Fromthis, it looks like it boils down to number of attacks versus quality of saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-2158433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 well it ignores shooting and the charge, so its just a "how good of a tarpit is it in melle" kind of thing. You throw out a plasma cannon shot or two or get the charge things change. I may pull up my spread sheet and put in numbers for that, I also want to put it in vs a standard combat fex, and a godfex. I also dellightfully ignored sweeping advances and no retreats, which is irresponsible of me as I normaly do right a line for them in the spreadsheet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182309-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-2159386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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