Nightrunner Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Having been messing with the ideas of a Wolfwing list, I came across the idea of what happens to a WG squad when you lose the other two gents that make the squad a 3-wolf unit. If I take Arjac, and two WG to go in squads of GH's, would he (on his own) then become a scoring unit, giving me a 188pt, 2 wound eternal warrior with 5 S10 attacks on the charge/counter to guard an objective? EDIT: OF COURSE...... I would have to take the Great Wolf as well!!!!! Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Afraid not. Nothing makes him a troop choice unless you take Grimnar. My opinion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2157270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Afraid not. Nothing makes him a troop choice unless you take Grimnar. My opinion Whoops. Edited my original post to include this point, obviously!! Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2157275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Assuming you take Logan Grimnar, yes he would. A waste of a 188 point model though, since Arjac really shines at the forefront smashing skulls and taking names. EDIT: Don't forget too that at the end of the day, he's still only T4 with 2 wounds. Yes, he has a 2+/3+ save, but all it takes is a decent volley of Bolters to take him down (I lost mine to 15 shots) DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2157289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 That changes things completely! hehe Yes that would make him a scoring unit, but all by himself makes him a nice target. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2157291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Assign him out as a squad leader to Blood Claws or a Grey Hunters, and then he'd be a troop too. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2157302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Assign him out as a squad leader to Blood Claws or a Grey Hunters, and then he'd be a troop too. ;) no it doesnt, it makes him a WG leading a unit of BC or GH. he only becomes a troop with logan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Assign him out as a squad leader to Blood Claws or a Grey Hunters, and then he'd be a troop too. ;) no it doesnt, it makes him a WG leading a unit of BC or GH. he only becomes a troop with logan No, as he is Wolf Guard, assigning him as a Pack Leader to Grey Hunters or Blood Claws makes him a part of that unit for the rest of the game. The unit remains a Troop choice and should all but Arjac be wiped out, the unit/Arjac still remains a scoring Troops. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It is true. When a Wolf Guard is assigned to a pack he becomes part of the pack for ALL intents and purposes, including becoming a scoring unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 My thinking behind this was as a counter-assault unit in a Wolfwing list, where scoring units can be pricey enough without paying the massive deposit for Arjac. I would just like to point out that Arjac and his squad of GH/BC's obviously require a delivery method, whereas by assigning the two "buddies" of Arjac to other units, you would generate a scoring unit that can be used as an excellent source of CC and anti-tank counter-attack. Think Lone wolf, but with better abilities? Or would a Wolfwing list be better with two lone wolves? Opinions? NR :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 My thinking behind this was as a counter-assault unit in a Wolfwing list, where scoring units can be pricey enough without paying the massive deposit for Arjac. I would just like to point out that Arjac and his squad of GH/BC's obviously require a delivery method, whereas by assigning the two "buddies" of Arjac to other units, you would generate a scoring unit that can be used as an excellent source of CC and anti-tank counter-attack. Think Lone wolf, but with better abilities? Or would a Wolfwing list be better with two lone wolves? Opinions? NR :( The problem is that while Arjac has high damage output, he does NOT have the Feel No Pain that the Lone Wolves have. Offensively Arjac is superior to one or even two Lone Wolves (for his points, he damn well better be). Defensively, he's poorer. Consider: Lone Wolf, 2 Wounds, T4, with TDA/SS and FNP, has a 2+/3+ save, and a 4+ to ignore the wound. Arjac, 2 wounds, T4, with TDA/SS, has a 2+/3+ save. As a single model, Arjac is just too easy to kill. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Remember though that a Lone Wolf would be subject to the Instant Death rule, so as long as a wound gets through that would cause instant death (or power weapons) would ignore the FNP, whereas Arjac has the ability to survive things that a Lone Wolf would not, even with FNP. It's all a matter of preference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Lone Wolves have Eternal Warrior, too. They are definitely the more survivable unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Lone Wolves have Eternal Warrior, too. They are definitely the more survivable unit. Absolutely. When you want a resilient distraction unit, Lone Wolves are the way to go. Arjac works best when leading a big pack that can absorb hits for him and where he can't be picked out, allowing him to survive much longer than if he were to run out alone. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublindawg Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Aside from the cost of Arjac, would it be worth adding him to a pack of scouts? Their main role would as AT hitting the soft backsides of tanks and then placing a beat down on troops that are now footslogging. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Can't attach a unit with terminator armor to a pack of scouts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublindawg Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Can't attach a unit with terminator armor to a pack of scouts. Well that answers that and takes another idea out of my head. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Remember though that a Lone Wolf would be subject to the Instant Death rule, so as long as a wound gets through that would cause instant death (or power weapons) would ignore the FNP, whereas Arjac has the ability to survive things that a Lone Wolf would not, even with FNP. Pretty sure LW has Eternal Warrior, but I don't have my Codex in front of me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Remember though that a Lone Wolf would be subject to the Instant Death rule, so as long as a wound gets through that would cause instant death (or power weapons) would ignore the FNP, whereas Arjac has the ability to survive things that a Lone Wolf would not, even with FNP. Pretty sure LW has Eternal Warrior, but I don't have my Codex in front of me. He does. Both have Eternal Warrior, but the Lone Wolf has Feel No Pain, where Arjac does not, making the Lone Wolf better defensively (assuming TDA + SS) than Arjac. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Assign him out as a squad leader to Blood Claws or a Grey Hunters, and then he'd be a troop too. :whistling: no it doesnt, it makes him a WG leading a unit of BC or GH. he only becomes a troop with logan No, as he is Wolf Guard, assigning him as a Pack Leader to Grey Hunters or Blood Claws makes him a part of that unit for the rest of the game. The unit remains a Troop choice and should all but Arjac be wiped out, the unit/Arjac still remains a scoring Troops. DV8 arjac becomes scoring dueto benefit of being a pack member, my reference was to Arjac HIMSELF, not with the unit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Does Eternal Warrior save Arjac or Lone Wolves from Force Weapons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I forget LW have Eternal Warrior =P Yes, as Eternal Warrior saves you from anything that would cause Instant Death, that would by-bass the normal process of wound removal unless there is a specific statement otherwise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It is true. When a Wolf Guard is assigned to a pack he becomes part of the pack for ALL intents and purposes, including becoming a scoring unit. Can someone cite a page for this rule, I need it for the FAQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It is true. When a Wolf Guard is assigned to a pack he becomes part of the pack for ALL intents and purposes, including becoming a scoring unit. Can someone cite a page for this rule, I need it for the FAQ. Page 86, emphasis mine: Before the battle, each Wolf Guard has the option of being split off from his pack and assigned to lead a different pack from the following list: ... Only one Wolf Guard may join each pack in this manner. Pretty clear that Wolf Guard assigned as Pack Leaders are removed from their original pack (and thus no longer a part of them), and join another unit listed for the duration of the game, joining them as a member of the pack (and thus a part of said pack for all intents and purposes, including deploying and embarking into (dedicated) transports, and in the case of Troops, being a scoring unit.) DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 But nothing that specifies that he becomes a member of that pack for "ALL intents and purposes" as was said. Its iffy I think. Previous editions, WG in a pack become a troop choice, even if the last man standing. I am content to go with that, but dont mistake whats in print for statements like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182347-the-anvil-as-a-scoring-unit/#findComment-2158585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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