henrythesecond Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hi guys. The other night a curious situation arose during our 1750pt Codex Marine vs Salamanders battle. The scenario was this: ============= AM [ SV VH AM =========== The terrain piece was a ruined building with high walls which we'd considered impassable. The building was not wide enough to place 2 figures side by side, as shown above. The square bracket symbol is an open doorway into the building and the opposite end of the building was open. AM are Assault Marines, SV is a Sternguard Vet and VH is Vulkan Hestan. The Vet and Vulkan consolidated into the building after a CC the turn previous. The Assault Marines then moved to engage in the subsequent turn but could only get into base contact with the Vet. This gave rise to our first issue: Q: Can Vulkan 'Defender React' through impassable terrain or through/past his own Vet? We figured not. Obviously, when the CC was determined, both Assault Marines got to fight, but because Hestan is an IC and was not in base contact, he couldn't contribute his attacks or be attacked. The result of the CC was inconclusive, with no wounds scored on either side. This led to the next issue: Q: As long as the Vet remains alive, is Hestan effectively tied up out of the game? He can't engage and he can't leave the squad he's in because it's in CC. In this battle, Hestan was tied up like this for 4 rounds of CC, unable to move or fight. The situation was only resolved when a squad of Termies entered the building from the 'open' end and engaged Hestan from the rear. This also made the situation seem slightly absurd as the Termies could contribute their attacks from behind each other (I think 3 ended up contributing), yet Hestan had been unable to use his attacks from behind the Vet in the doorway for the previous 4 rounds of CC. We realise this situation was really only brought about by the peculiar features of the terrain piece, but I was wondering if any of you would have played it any differently to us? Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobman Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I say you got it right. No movement through impassale terrain and ICs need base to base. This is where alot of people forget that in 40K postioning can really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I dont see anything wrong with what you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Yup, silly as it may seem, I think you played it right. RoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhx711 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Looks right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Santios Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I was the Salamanders player and I was spitting feathers about this rule ... I still am ! If I had a second Sternguard left then he would of got to strike back for being within 2inches etc ... I beggers belief that I couldnt strike back AND was locked in combat when there was only two models fighting together as a squad. As 'right' as the rule may be it then allowed 3 striking terminaters in file to charge with all the bonuses that entails (thank god He'Stan is hard as nails) and the distance was clearly much further from the rear terminator than the distance from He'Stan to the window and the original RAS that had locked him in combat Rules are Rules I know but the whole situation was clearly one of those times when common sense should over-rule 'rule as written' because of the 'freek' nature of the terrain and situation I dont blame the guy (no real names so dont get upset mate :-) and the storm in the tea cup moment has passed ) Your not getting a christmas card tho mate hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 To be fair common sense actualy suports this, marines are something around 8 ft tall and 6 ft wide. If your stuck in a narrow (at least comparitively) hallway, your not going to be able to help much around the ally infront of you. They made a movie about the princible, it was called 250, or twelve eleven, or maybe it was three hunderd, but that just sounds wrong :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 The only thing I can see wrong is that the assault marines and Vulkan had to consolidate after each round of ineffective close combat. If that building was short enough, the assault marines could move 6" toward that opening (staying in coherency), while vulkan could perhaps move around that opening and back into coherency (if it were short enough) to look like this: ============= AM [ SV -----------> | AM ========== | AM AM VU <-------- v --> AM AM If the building was to long for Vulkan to make that in one move though, then the assault marines can take the time to daisy chain their way in: ============= AM [ SV VU AM AM AM ========== AM AM AM AM AM AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrythesecond Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 I was the Salamanders player and I was spitting feathers about this rule ... I still am ! If I had a second Sternguard left then he would of got to strike back for being within 2inches etc ... I beggers belief that I couldnt strike back AND was locked in combat when there was only two models fighting together as a squad. As 'right' as the rule may be it then allowed 3 striking terminaters in file to charge with all the bonuses that entails (thank god He'Stan is hard as nails) and the distance was clearly much further from the rear terminator than the distance from He'Stan to the window and the original RAS that had locked him in combat Rules are Rules I know but the whole situation was clearly one of those times when common sense should over-rule 'rule as written' because of the 'freek' nature of the terrain and situation I dont blame the guy (no real names so dont get upset mate :-) and the storm in the tea cup moment has passed ) Your not getting a christmas card tho mate hehe Hey, dude! I'm pleased no hard feelings (and your Xmas cards are crap anyway...), but I did have some moments of 'was-I-not-flexible-enough?' afterwards. Seems we did it right by the rules, though. I guess we're just never using that old ruined barn terrain piece again!! Next time: Planetstrike!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrythesecond Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 The only thing I can see wrong is that the assault marines and Vulkan had to consolidate after each round of ineffective close combat. If that building was short enough, the assault marines could move 6" toward that opening (staying in coherency), while vulkan could perhaps move around that opening and back into coherency (if it were short enough)... ...If the building was to long for Vulkan to make that in one move though, then the assault marines can take the time to daisy chain their way in: Yep, I get what you mean Seahawk. The building is approx 10" in length so definitely too far for Hestan to have consolidated around and returned to coherency. And unfortunately, I only had 2 assault marines left (thanks to a heavy flamer, damn it...), so no daisy-chaining for those boys either. That would also raise the question of whether the Assault Marines (if there had been more of them) would've stayed within the rules by consolidating further away from the CC, albeit in order to engage models within the CC. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I was the Salamanders player and I was spitting feathers about this rule ... I still am ! If I had a second Sternguard left then he would of got to strike back for being within 2inches etc ... I beggers belief that I couldnt strike back AND was locked in combat when there was only two models fighting together as a squad. As 'right' as the rule may be it then allowed 3 striking terminaters in file to charge with all the bonuses that entails (thank god He'Stan is hard as nails) and the distance was clearly much further from the rear terminator than the distance from He'Stan to the window and the original RAS that had locked him in combat Rules are Rules I know but the whole situation was clearly one of those times when common sense should over-rule 'rule as written' because of the 'freek' nature of the terrain and situation I dont blame the guy (no real names so dont get upset mate :-) and the storm in the tea cup moment has passed ) Your not getting a christmas card tho mate hehe It sucks, sure, but that's what house rules are for. Write some up that you and your opponents can agree on when/if this happens again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 If it helps, think of it as the lone remaining Sternguard Vet battling his heart out to defend his leader, while the leader grimly looks for an opening that never presents itself. If you had another Sternguard Vet on the other side of Vulkan, he'd be within the 2" of a based model and get to attack. Sounds wacky, but think of it as "Get down, sir! We'll handle this. You're too valuable to the chapter!" Sometimes you just have to fnid ways to rationalize the odd rules in a cinematic way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhx711 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 (and your Xmas cards are crap anyway...), Oh snap. He went there! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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