Plasma!

[Ravenfeld]

I am making an Iron hands army and I feel that Plasma weapons are one of the many ways that I can make my IH's feel closer to the technologically advanced AM and I was hoping to use many of them in my force. Naturally, however, I realize the Gets Hot rule is a risky one when dealing with large numbers of troops, so I was just wondering how every feels about Plasma and how often their Gets Hot rule has turned a win into a loss in a battle!

[Frosty the Pyro]

I like plasma personaly, and realy its a 1/18 chance per shot for regulare marines, 1/36 chance for comand squad or artifacer armor units (1/72 for a guy with a 2+ save and FnP). And for guys with twinlinked weapons its a 1/108, unless they also have a 2+ save, when its a 1/216 (techmarines pistol).

 

When it comes down to the numbers gets hot will ocasionaly cost you a model or two, but it will almost always have cost them.

 

 

Thats how I see it anyway.

[minigun762]

I am making an Iron hands army and I feel that Plasma weapons are one of the many ways that I can make my IH's feel closer to the technologically advanced AM and I was hoping to use many of them in my force. Naturally, however, I realize the Gets Hot rule is a risky one when dealing with large numbers of troops, so I was just wondering how every feels about Plasma and how often their Gets Hot rule has turned a win into a loss in a battle!

 

I think its a very good idea, Plasma is rare in the Imperium, so having access to alot of it does seem fairly special.

 

Its not that dangerous, especially if you're just single tapping it. With 1 shot, a Marine has a 6% chance roughly to die, thats hardly worth mentioning to be honest.

 

Frosty has the right idea, its almost always more dangerous to be on the receiving end of Plasma. :devil:

[Ravenfeld]

Awesome, well that puts my mind at ease because as I said I really like the idea of having an army that is Plasma Heavy, I mean Plasma can threaten most vehicles and devastate all infantry, it seems like a worthwhile investment with such low odds of losing troops to over heating. That and Lascannons or Meltas should be able to topple anything too heavy for the plasma.

 

Thanks guys!

 

-- Putrius

[minigun762]

Lascannons or Meltas should be able to topple anything too heavy for the plasma.

 

Typically Melta is the better choice, especially Melta on fast moving platforms.

 

I think its totally appropriate to take Melta weapons on platforms that don't allow Plasma, so there is no problem with choice.

 

Land Speeders seem high tech (they are anti-gravs) and good units to put Multi-Meltas on.

Vindicators are also a decent choice for anti-tank with S10 ordnance.

[Giga]

My command squad has 3 plasmaguns, and one of my tactical squads has a plasma cannon.

 

Gotha say they've all been pretty useful. ;)

[Ravenfeld]

Alright, well I have a few questions in regards to dreadnoughts, I'm thinking I might use a Plasma Cannon in place of an Assault Cannon, just means I'll be more likely to pierce lighter vehicles without the random off chance of piercing heavy vehicles. Fits with the theme and I love how they look.

 

Additionally what is the best way to use Plasma units, since they can't assault and shoot in the same turn? I mean ideally I would like to give my tacticals all plasma, but will I be severely shafting myself in regards to versatility?

[JTibbetts]

A plasma gun is no less versatile than a bolter as far as charging goes. If you're going to assault, most of your marines will be firing a bolt pistol before the charge instead of their main gun, and the plasma gun trooper is no different. With an assault weapon, like a melta or flamer, you can still shoot your "special" gun and then charge, but that's only a big difference on one turn out of the game, generally. Against hoards and whatnot, that flamer would be nice, and of course against vehicles that melta can make a big impact... but the plasma is likely to be useful for more of the game, by the numbers.

[Ravenfeld]

How about in regards to the Plasma Cannon vs. the Assault Cannon?

[waaanial00]

Alright, well I have a few questions in regards to dreadnoughts, I'm thinking I might use a Plasma Cannon in place of an Assault Cannon, just means I'll be more likely to pierce lighter vehicles without the random off chance of piercing heavy vehicles. Fits with the theme and I love how they look.

 

As you specifically asked.

 

Plasma Cannons VS armour really means a hit just over 1/3 of the time (rolling a hit and chances of rulling 4 or less). I havent figured out exactly what the maths of it is because its a little too much investment for this time of the morning (its 08:02 here). Most other times, depending on where it scatters and how big the vehicle is, you are going to be S4 or missing.

 

Plus you are only really talking about S6 Vs S7 and this is only really a big thing against light armour, even then it isnt that massive. Talking about 1/3 to glance AV11 vs 1/2 to glance AV11, against AV12+ its not possible for the assault cannon to glance (as it rends on a 6 and therefore will pen) so its arguably better.

 

However with the assault cannon you have 4 attempts over the one attempt for the Plasma cannon.

 

What you should really be thinking about is your anti infantry capabilities. The plasma cannon is arguably better here because it can still "miss" and impact a squad and you only have to "hit" once in order to affect multiple targets. Wounding T5 is easier and the AP2 is great for knocking out FNP. The range difference is also helpful, a Plasma Cannon is much more likely to be in effect turn 1 whereas the Assault Cannon is definitely Turn 2+ (unless drop podded and then it has survival issues).

 

In summary I would say if you are looking for anti tank, I wouldnt go for Plasma Cannon because I dont see blast weapons as reliable enough to take down tanks (dont get me wrong I have done so, killing a Vindicator with a side shot form a Sternguard Plasma cannon has tought me the versitility of the weapon). However if you want an all round great weapon which will be flexible enough to cover a lot of the bases then slap one on it. The forgeworld arm is really nice to behold so I would get it just for this factor (only thing stopping me is that I have never magnetised anything yet so am waiting before I hack my dreads up)

 

 

Wan

[Audun]

I think the usual theme for plasma tactical squads is to make a gunline, but you could throw them in a rhino and attempt to hunt monstrous creatures or elite troops - make a driveby and shoot out the top hatch or jump out and rapidfire. Just don't expect that squad to live too long unless youve already weakened the MC. It's even better if you put Plasmas on a bike command squad because they can still assault afer shooting (Relentless?).

 

If you were going after vehicals I would still choose the assault cannon, but many of my opponants use at least AV 12, so the plasma cannon would need a 5+. I have seen assault cannons rend reliably every turn, but it's all down to luck. The assault cannon has 4x as many shots too, so there's more margin for error. shot per shot, the plasma might be better on AV 10, 11, but you should really be shooting the cannon at the killy units in the opponants army if you can, like terminators (even better if they just deepstriked) monstrous creatures or wraithguard.

[Koremu]

Plasma Weapons are awesome. I've had Tactical Squads suddenly lay 4 wounds into a 'fex thanks to Plasma technology.

 

Sure, occasionally it explodes and blows your face off. More often it kills the enemy.

 

One thing I would note for you is that by the fluff, the Iron Hands use Terminator Armour for their Sergeants. While you can't do this is C:SM, you can do it by using Codex:Space Wolves - which has the additional benefits that you can equip Grey Hunter squads with 2 Plasma Guns per squad, and you can take the Sagas as "counts-as" representations of the IH determination to overcome all weakness.

 

You can also get lots of Land Raiders using this method.

 

I further second the suggestion from upthread that Land Speeders would be a good addition to enhance the high-tech feel of the IH.

[Kronk]

I've had good and bad days with my plasma.

 

I had one game where the plasma cannon got hot 3 of the 5 times I shot it, and scattered onto nothing the other 2 times. He failed the gets hot check on turn 5 and died. Stewie the Texas A&M plasma cannoneer will not be missed.

 

I've also put wounds on wraithlords and killed walkers with my plasma cannons and guns.

 

They are definitely worth the points. I find that sitting that squad on an objective and raining down plasma fire is an excellent use for them.

[chapter master 454]

I love plasma that much I went to imperial guard with a good portion of my heart set on that executioner! (5 plasma blast templates free of gets hot, oh yes!) anyway plasma is quite a powerful force, it can level terminators in a single blast and concentrated fire from plasma cannons can just kneecap, if not destroy, any unit not inside AV13 or greater. I personally would field pure plasma squads if I could, plasma guns, plasma pistols and plasma cannons are the most devastating weapons squads can get. If you need a recommendation then I give you full hearted one, powerful and for the iron hands or embrace tech it would feel natural after all they would believe that with correct blessings the machine spirits would never harm the user!

[Ravenfeld]

I am definatly liking the support for the idea so far. Ok then if I were to go all plasma in all my units would you suggest I replace my Missile Launchers and Flamers and just go ALL out literally. Throw plasma pistols on assault squads, etc etc? Would it still be a competitive force on the field? I would also like to know how effective a gunline really is?

 

On the topic of Space Wolves I actually have one list based on the space wolves lists and it is actually one of my favorites, the only problem I have with it is the lack of the Master of the Forge and the awesome librarian powers, because lets be frank the Iron Hands arent using storm magic right? So I will probably rotate between the lists depending on mood!

 

Thanks again for the info, keep it coming!

 

-- Putrius

[Frosty the Pyro]

Plasma is great for poping light vehicles (read transports) but your going to have dificulty going against a vehicle haeavy list and you wont even glance a landraider. Nids will hate you though.

 

If you want to go all out on plasma you will need something to handle av 13 and 14. Your non shooty options are pretty much ironclads and chainfists. come to think of it a squad of chainfist packing terminators sounds fun. Just call them Team Vehicle Hate.

[Koremu]

Vehicles generally, even many AV13 and 14 ones, don't need Chainfists. 10 Krak Grenades will do the job vs. AV10 rear.

 

Chainfists, like Melta Bombs, are only worth their points against a very specific set of targets - Land Raiders and Bastions for the most part.

[Ravenfeld]

Well I was thinking I could add either scout squads on LSS's with meltabombs or Assault Squads with Meltabombs to be my designated tank hunters. I also think packing some lascannons in a Dev Squad or with Landraiders might add some anti-vehicle punch to the mix. Most of my lists (with exception to my SW one) have an ironclad in it who's express purpose is to be podded and to demolish enemy heavy armor. Any more suggestions?

[Kronk]

As an update, I had my best plasma shooting last night. 3 squads, each wtih a plasma gun and plasma cannon.

 

Zero gets hot rolls. Sure, my cannon shots scattered into nothing a few times, but that's better than a wad of plasma in the eye.

 

I am definatly liking the support for the idea so far. Ok then if I were to go all plasma in all my units would you suggest I replace my Missile Launchers and Flamers and just go ALL out literally. Throw plasma pistols on assault squads, etc etc?

 

Variety is the spice of life. It also covers your ass. The game I did last night where I brought 3 plasma cannons and guns isn't likely to be a common army list for me. However, seeing how well they chew up chaos marines, I can guarantee you that my anti-chaos lists will not commonly be without one unit as described.

 

As others have already said, cover your bases. Plasma aren't effective against AV 13 (needs a 6) and AV14 is immune. You'll want a lascannon(s) from something (a dreadnought, predator, land raider, or a different troop squad) or a multimelta(s) from something (dread, land raider crusader, bike, speeder, or troop squad).

 

Obviously, not knowing your standard army list and the point total your group typically plays, I can't say "You must run 2 tactical squads each with a plasma cannon." That would be silly. However, not much says "Come get some" more than a tactical squad with a plasma cannon and plasma gun sitting on an objective in cover.

 

So, I'd say that one sitting on an objective and another one rolling out with a rhino or drop pod on turn 1 to another strategic spot and raining plasma the rest of the game wouldn't be a horrible idea. That still leaves plenty of points for a 1500 point game. And if you find that one is enough, replace one with a multimelta or missile launcher.

[Bartali]

.....Plasma Cannons VS armour really means a hit just over 1/3 of the time (rolling a hit and chances of rulling 4 or less). I havent figured out exactly what the maths of it is because its a little too much investment for this time of the morning (its 08:02 here). Most other times, depending on where it scatters and how big the vehicle is, you are going to be S4 or missing.

 

Spot the bored person. With BS4, it's a 44% of hitting (33% of scoring a hit + 11% of scattering 4 or less inches if a miss).

 

I like AP2 blasts, my Fire Prism S9 AP2 blast worked well last night against Space Wolves, and I'm looking forward to trying a Plasma Cannon on a Deathwing Dread.

[Bay]

I use a mix of plasma and melta weapons, I personally like plasma b/c of the range, also it adds that extra risk factor with 'It gets hot", I think it gives more edge to the game knowing that the model might kill significantly or be killed. Overall, I always field at least one PC (small template rocks) and a plasma gun In a tac. squad.

[Frosty the Pyro]

.....Plasma Cannons VS armour really means a hit just over 1/3 of the time (rolling a hit and chances of rulling 4 or less). I havent figured out exactly what the maths of it is because its a little too much investment for this time of the morning (its 08:02 here). Most other times, depending on where it scatters and how big the vehicle is, you are going to be S4 or missing.

 

Spot the bored person. With BS4, it's a 44% of hitting (33% of scoring a hit + 11% of scattering 4 or less inches if a miss).

 

I like AP2 blasts, my Fire Prism S9 AP2 blast worked well last night against Space Wolves, and I'm looking forward to trying a Plasma Cannon on a Deathwing Dread.

close you still have to consider the chance of it scatter into the transport. If yo give the the dimisions of some vehicles I can calculate the chances for those.

[Ravenfeld]

Alright, well just for the record I play 1850 games at my local store and there is a decent amount of Eldar / Tau / and Chaos abound with a sprinkling of Orks. Really I want my cake and to eat it too, I want a competitive list that can stick to my Iron Hands - Plasma oriented theme. Because of this I am going to try and rustle up some lists for you guys and see what you think.

 

Yes I will be using some Lascannons or Meltas for anti-tank.. naturally I can't have a plasma exclusive army and have it remain competitive. But hell I think giant LAZOR BEAMZ is pretty high tech don't you? It's because of this that I think I will be using Lascannons as my primary anti-tank weapon. This means that I either need to spruce up my TLAC Dread to have a Lascannon instead, add a Predator to my mix, or use Godhammer LR's to move my termies around. I know that I want at the very least one Razorback which I will probably use a Las/TLPlasma because it fits!

 

Anyway, lists to come!

 

Thanks again for the advice and help!

 

-- Putrius

[Captain Malachi]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but there were a lot of posts and I'm lazy.

 

Something I use is a captain + command squad, each veteran gets a plasmagun and the captain gets a bolter with hellfire rounds (personal taste, truth be told a combi-plasma would likely be better). They move up to the enemy in their razorback, hop out and plasma the nearest squad. Thanks to the apothecary I almost never lose a wound to overheating.

[Paulochromis]

can't help but notice how often people are looking at the cost of the model at risk from the Gets Hot! rule and using that to make their decision, rather than looking at the actually probability. By all means, multiply the two together, but make sure you look at the actual likelihood of suffering a wound.

Especially for multi-wound chars or units with apothecaries and/or FNP.

 

Cheers, Paul.