Rules on Saga of the Warrior born lol

[whitewolfmxc]

Ok , im a bit confused with the wording of the saga of the warrior born , it says : "the character gets a bonus to his attacks equal to the number of models he killed during the previous Assault phase"

 

so is it :

 

A) He adds up all the models his killed through out the game and add them all up ? for say he killed 2 model at turn 1 , 3 models at turn 2 , at turn 3 he would get an extra 2+3 = 5 attacks ? (not likely as it isnt worded "previous Assault phases")

 

B ) He only adds up all the model he killed in the last Assault phase ? but then what if he didnt kill anything in last turns assault phase ? do they add 0 or do they add the last time they killed something ?

 

or am i just thinking too much ? XD im confused because "previous" could mean last turn or last time you did something in that rule phrase lol

[jester262]

Only the models you killed in the previous assault phase

[Brother Grius]

Assault phases happen on each player's turn, so it affects the assault phase of the opposite player's turn in which the kills were earned.

 

Example: I assault my opponent and kill 6 models with Ragnar. During my opponent's turn Ragnar gains 6 extra attacks, and kills 4 models. His squad is dead, and I consolidate. During my turn Ragnar charges a new squad and gets 4 bonus attacks. Ragnar kills 6 more models. The squad fails their morale and flees. During my opponent's turn, he might not want to charge Ragnar, because he would be getting another 6 bonus attacks that turn.

 

Hope this helps.

[40k Junkie]

Assault phases happen on each player's turn, so it affects the assault phase of the opposite player's turn in which the kills were earned.

 

Example: I assault my opponent and kill 6 models with Ragnar. During my opponent's turn Ragnar gains 6 extra attacks, and kills 4 models. His squad is dead, and I consolidate. During my turn Ragnar charges a new squad and gets 4 bonus attacks. Ragnar kills 6 more models. The squad fails their morale and flees. During my opponent's turn, he might not want to charge Ragnar, because he would be getting another 6 bonus attacks that turn.

 

Hope this helps.

 

A perfect clarification. Good job.

[whitewolfmxc]

Thanks guys , one more question regarding

 

so my turn ragnar killed 4 models and wiped out the whole squad and consolidated , the my enemies turn he didnt charge him , so its my turn again so do ragnar still get 4 extra attacks ?

[Forseti]

No, if he wasn't in combat the previous assault phase, then his attacks reset, as he scored 0 kills that phase. Warrior Born is much more effective vs assault armies as they're more likely to keep him in combat.

[whitewolfmxc]

ok thanks

[Gabriel1303]

The cumulative effect of this is still lovely though.

 

For example in turn 1 ragnar assaults and kills 4 models from his standard attacks + charging.

 

In my opponents turn ragnar is still in combat and gets his standard attacks +4 extra for those he killed in the previous assault.

 

For simplicities sake suppose in this combat he kills another 4 from this standard attacks and 2 from the additional 4 attacks he got from previous round - that makes 6 dead so +6 attacks for the following round.

 

In the next assault phase he gets his basic attacks plus 4 from the last round and 2 from the round before that. Even though those extra 2 kills were not in the last assault phase they were carried through via the cumulative side effect that occurs

 

Carry this logic on and if ragnar stays in combat for each assault (unlikely i know but still possible with huge mobs of orks) then his total number of attacks will cumulatively increase and he becomes lethal.

 

My one issue is with Ragnar i assume you have to resolve casualties directly after his attack to identify how many kills he made.

 

For example here is one scenario that would occur given the way i currently play with my friends.

 

Ragnar and his squad charge a mob - suppose my initiative for ragnar and his squad is higher therefore i roll all attacks together - suppose ragnar inflicts 2 wounds and his squad another 6 on a squad of 5 orks. Now in resolving casualties my opponent could allocate wounds from ragnar as follows:

 

Ork 1 Ragnar 1 ragnar 2

Ork 2 squad 1 squad 5

Ork 3 squad 2 squad 6

Ork 4 squad 3

Ork 5 squad 4

 

Here both of the wounds from ragnar are allocated to the same model so he only gets one kill from 2 wounds - therefore he would only get 1 extra attack in the following turn.

 

However if we resolve combat after each initiative level (which i think makes sense as we would do this if the enemy squad has an initiative level between ragnar and his squad - then ragnar would stacking wounds is not possible and ragnar kills 2 orks.

 

I have most probably gone way overboard with this but i hope you get the point - you can use ragnar to increase cumulative attacks and avoid stacking of excessive wounds. Hes great - i love him

[whitewolfmxc]

well for me i always resolve attacks with special character or HQ separately according to I , is that the right way to do it even all my squads go at the same time as that model ?

[DV8]

The cumulative effect of this is still lovely though.

 

For example in turn 1 ragnar assaults and kills 4 models from his standard attacks + charging.

 

In my opponents turn ragnar is still in combat and gets his standard attacks +4 extra for those he killed in the previous assault.

 

For simplicities sake suppose in this combat he kills another 4 from this standard attacks and 2 from the additional 4 attacks he got from previous round - that makes 6 dead so +6 attacks for the following round.

 

In the next assault phase he gets his basic attacks plus 4 from the last round and 2 from the round before that. Even though those extra 2 kills were not in the last assault phase they were carried through via the cumulative side effect that occurs

 

Carry this logic on and if ragnar stays in combat for each assault (unlikely i know but still possible with huge mobs of orks) then his total number of attacks will cumulatively increase and he becomes lethal.

 

My one issue is with Ragnar i assume you have to resolve casualties directly after his attack to identify how many kills he made.

 

For example here is one scenario that would occur given the way i currently play with my friends.

 

Ragnar and his squad charge a mob - suppose my initiative for ragnar and his squad is higher therefore i roll all attacks together - suppose ragnar inflicts 2 wounds and his squad another 6 on a squad of 5 orks. Now in resolving casualties my opponent could allocate wounds from ragnar as follows:

 

Ork 1 Ragnar 1 ragnar 2

Ork 2 squad 1 squad 5

Ork 3 squad 2 squad 6

Ork 4 squad 3

Ork 5 squad 4

 

Here both of the wounds from ragnar are allocated to the same model so he only gets one kill from 2 wounds - therefore he would only get 1 extra attack in the following turn.

 

However if we resolve combat after each initiative level (which i think makes sense as we would do this if the enemy squad has an initiative level between ragnar and his squad - then ragnar would stacking wounds is not possible and ragnar kills 2 orks.

 

I have most probably gone way overboard with this but i hope you get the point - you can use ragnar to increase cumulative attacks and avoid stacking of excessive wounds. Hes great - i love him

 

Impossible because even IF all your models strike before the Orks, Ragnar strikes before your marines (I6 to their I5, counting Furious Charge, or I5 to I4 without it). Ragnar would strike before your marines, inflict the wounds (which your opponent must allocate, taking off whole models when possible), and then your marines would attack. Remember in combat Independent Characters of all sorts are treated as separate units, so the whole "all wounds are inflicted at the same time" doesn't count. And there's very very few units I know of that have mixed Initiative (Grots + Slavers is the only one that comes to mind).

 

 

DV8

[Frosty the Pyro]

well for me i always resolve attacks with special character or HQ separately according to I , is that the right way to do it even all my squads go at the same time as that model ?

 

No, during combat indepndent characters are not part of a nit untill the resolve combat step. For declaring attacks, revieving wounds, and taking saves they are completely solo. Thats why enemies can specificly target IC in CC.

 

 

HOWEVER all attacks at the same Initive step happens at the same time, so wounds from both an IC and any other freindly attacks at the same initive would go to the same "wound pool" for allocation if they are against the same unit. If ragnar has a unit it with them and they all atack some boys, the enemy could stack ragnar wounds on one model (with seperate wargear of course) assuming enouph total wounds are delt. (If your are confused read through the wound alocation section in the BrB, its in the shooting phase chapter).

 

 

So lets say Character X (with warior born) and 20 other wolves decide to gangbang some 10 fire wariors who are in the wrong place, at the wrong time. All wolves, including character X hit on initive 4. X, being the badass pup that he is swings out 4 wounds, what a guy. The 20 other wolves manage a colective 30. The fire wariors. One of the firewariors has a pulse carbine instead of a pulse rifle. So the dirty xeno tau player alocates a X wound to the carbine, and then 9 puppy wounds to the rifles, (3x, 21 puppy remaining), then another x to the carbine, and nine puppies to the rifles (2 x and 12 puppie remaing). By the end all 4 X wounds are one the carbine, and all 30 puppies are beatin up on the rifles. Saves are made, and the carbine dies right off (X has a frost ax, cus he a swell guy), but wounds dont go from equipment group to equipment group so thats it, and well 9 guys colectively fail enouph of the 30 armor saves to all die (as wounds are shared colectively for models with the same gear). X, dispite being hard core, only gets one kill. The unit is still crushed, and tau are unlikely to charge on their turn (so maybe orks would have been a better example, but its more fun to beat down on blueberries).

[Toasterfree]

well for me i always resolve attacks with special character or HQ separately according to I , is that the right way to do it even all my squads go at the same time as that model ?

 

No, during combat indepndent characters are not part of a nit untill the resolve combat step. For declaring attacks, revieving wounds, and taking saves they are completely solo. Thats why enemies can specificly target IC in CC.

 

 

HOWEVER each Initive step happens at the same time, so wounds from both an IC and any other freindly attacks at the same initive would go to the same "wound pool" for allocation if they are against the same unit. If ragnar has a unit it with them and they all atack some boys, the enemy could stack ragnar wounds on one model (with seperate wargear of course) assuming enouph total wounds are delt. (If your are confused read through the wound alocation section in the BrB, its in the shooting phase chapter).

 

 

So lets say Character X (with warior born) and 20 other wolves decide to gangbang some 10 fire wariors who are in the wrong place, at the wrong time. All wolves, including character X hit on initive 4. X, being the badass pup that he is swings out 4 wounds, what a guy. The 20 other wolves manage a colective 30. The fire wariors. One of the firewariors has a pulse carbine instead of a pulse rifle. So the dirty xeno tau player alocates a X wound to the carbine, and then 9 puppy wounds to the rifles, (3x, 21 puppy remaining), then another x to the carbine, and nine puppies to the rifles (2 x and 12 puppie remaing). By the end all 4 X wounds are one the carbine, and all 30 puppies are beatin up on the rifles. Saves are made, and the carbine dies right off (X has a frost ax, cus he a swell guy), but wounds dont go from equipment group to equipment group so thats it, and well 9 guys colectively fail enouph of the 30 armor saves to all die (as wounds are shared colectively for models with the same gear). X, dispite being hard core, only gets one kill. The unit is still crushed, and tau are unlikely to charge on their turn (so maybe orks would have been a better example, but its more fun to beat down on blueberries).

 

i think you example is flawed. lets use your fire warriors (10) and ragnar (1) with grey hunters (5).

 

Ragnar and company attack. Rags goes first. he gets 6 to keep math simple, and deals 3 wounds. You now have a wound pool that you have to allocate to 6 people, because the carbine guy has just one wound, and there are enough models that everyone could take a wound. Since rags has a frost weapon those three guys die, were down to 7 fire warriors.

 

Grey Hunters attack. they get 15 attacks. lets say that all 15 attacks hit, and 10 of them wound. so now you have 7 guys that have to take wounds, leaving three unallocated wounds. you have to stack those wounds evenly among the unit, you can make the carbine guy take two saves, and two random guys take one more each. and lets say just for arguing sake that 3 of those wounds are power weapons. they still have to be allocated to guys, and then allocate wounds that allow saves to then, leaving wasted saves if you had an excess of them, in this case you might not. but you cannot stack 4 wounds on one dude unless he is the last one left.

[Frosty the Pyro]

well yes at different initives. Each initive step is resolved independantly. Character X however struck at the same time as the random puppies (I said I4, but it would be more likely I1 due to charging into cover and forgeting your frags, seriosly, terminators have horid memeory).

 

I do think I need to reword "each initive step happens at the same time, as I ment it as all attacks at the same initive step happens at the same time, and simply worded it horrable. I'll edit it for clearity (I blame having just woke up)

 

 

edit

 

 

Order of operations goes as follows.

1. Recieve wounds.

2. Alocate one wound to each model, once each model has one you may alocate a second, and so on (this is the part he quoted)

3. once all wounds are allocated divide the models into groups identical models (same waregear/profile/special rules).

4. Once seperated roll saves for each group

5. Remove as many models as posible with the unsaved wounds (this includes asighneing instant death wounds to unwouned models). Wounds do not tranfer from one group to another, excess wounds are lost.

6. If in assult reduce initive by 1 and repeate.