Albion de Heaven Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Hi all mates, I was talking with a friend some day ago and we have a doubt about how out TH works probably the rules forum would be a better place for this but usually ppl didn't know our "old" hammers :P Rule: "[...] any model wounded by it (Thunder Hammer) and non killed may not attack again untill Initiative 1 blows are struck in the next Assault phase." Does it meas I can chain stun a monstrous creature preventing it to attack always? Example: Round 1 3 terms charge a carnifex, he attack at initiative 2 and kills 2 termi, the last termi with TH hit and wound the carnifex Round 2 initiative 2: nothing happens (carni is stunned) initiative 1: the termi hit and wound again the carni initiative 0: here is the point, what happens? i would say that the carni ill NOT attack because he has been hit and should not attack again untill inititive 0 in NEXT phase my friend says that in this phase it should attack and again in next round it will attack at initiative 0 How do you use the rule? edited: specified in title that we are talking about DA hammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantomasz Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Hm In my opinion, Carnifex attacks last as his initiative is below 1 but he is not paralyzed/dazed and confuzed. If you attack below 1 initiative carni and dont kill him, he got "below 1" in next turn so again he attacks last. And so on and so forth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedecus Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Carnifex would strike when initiative 1 blows are struck, so he hits with initiative 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 The fex attacks at iniative 1, the same time as the thunder hammer wielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Librarian Hesperos Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Cool thought, but sadly it does not work. Now if only we could attack at initiative 2. Epic win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedecus Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 It is a win when you're up against high initiative enemies. Suddenly their advantage is gone and the Lightning claw support have a better chance of mopping up or at least doing some serious damage.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantomasz Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 The fex attacks at iniative 1, the same time as the thunder hammer wielder. Nope, it is said that victims of TH attacks AFTER initiative 1 attacks are done- see page 52 in Da codex :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
govannon Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Yes, you can keep it stunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkangeldentist Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 The fex attacks at iniative 1, the same time as the thunder hammer wielder. Nope, it is said that victims of TH attacks AFTER initiative 1 attacks are done- see page 52 in Da codex :) It says that models wounded will not attack until initiative 1 blows are struck. I don't see how that translates to striking after initiative 1. My reading of the entry has always led me to believe the victim strikes at the same time as the thunder hammer (and other powerfists) so will get to attack at the same time at the thunder hammer. Depending on survivors this could continue till one or the other finally dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForTheLion Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 its rather simple...a unit wounded by a thunder hammer strikes with initiative 1 next assault phase as it is impossible to have initiative 0 -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 its rather simple...a unit wounded by a thunder hammer strikes with initiative 1 next assault phase as it is impossible to have initiative 0 -.- Actually... its not. While I dont believe theres anything that currently has it, there have been models/units in the past that quite frankly always "strike last". WFB Zombies come to mind as a recent example however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
govannon Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 After rereading it, I have to change my answer. If it is wounded, then the next round it is Initiative 1. It would attack the same time as the TH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Official rules section might provide better insight on this rule, so I'm moving the thread there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 After rereading it, I have to change my answer. If it is wounded, then the next round it is Initiative 1. It would attack the same time as the TH. Agreed, mine doesnt say after, it says "until" so it would be simultaneous... just like anyone elses thunderhammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albion de Heaven Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Thank all for your reply. First of all sorry for english errors or missunderstandings, I'm Italian and my english is far from beeing perfect :P "[...] any model wounded by it (Thinder Hammer) and non killed may not attack again untill Initiative 1 blows are struck in the next Assault phase." Honesty we have never read "until" as "at the same moment" but we always use it as "after" since it says "until" ... "struck" and struck is a verb in past form Why not simply tell "[...] next assault phase it will strike at initiative 1"? I'm start thinking that (unfortunately) dargangelsdentist is right, but please continue posting :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 "Until" means "at the time of" in a basic way, but I can understand missing that subtlety. Hows the italian copy read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Yep, it just means the fex will strike simultaneously with the thammers instead of just in front of them (as he would normally with I2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Yep, it just means the fex will strike simultaneously with the thammers instead of just in front of them (as he would normally with I2) only if the fex has taken the Initive biomorph, which is not actualy that common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I spend the points every single time I run a CC fex, specifically so I can strike before thammers and pfists. I'm not sure what you'd define "common" as but if you play me you'd see it every single time. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I spend the points every single time I run a CC fex, specifically so I can strike before thammers and pfists. I'm not sure what you'd define "common" as but if you play me you'd see it every single time. B) Godfex are the ones that get the I biomorph, your standard ninjafex, dakafex, sniperfex and boomfex run without. I see more of them than I see godfex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 OK rules issue dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Sorry, I didn't know whether to start a new thread or attach it here, since its to do with TH as well, but what about the deamon hunter one?, I had a game yesterday agaisnt one and its worded that the carni (or flyrant in my case) doesnt get to attack until the end of its next assult phase. When i read this I always assumed it meant I1 but my friend was insistant it was no attacks at all. sorry I don't have exact wording as its his dex with the rule in. Cheers Edit: I cant type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albion de Heaven Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 "Until" means "at the time of" in a basic way, but I can understand missing that subtlety. Hows the italian copy read? I'm sorry I have the english codex and so I don't know how is it written in italian :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 "Until" means "at the time of" in a basic way, but I can understand missing that subtlety. Hows the italian copy read? I'm sorry I have the english codex and so I don't know how is it written in italian ;) DH Codex states and I quote: "A thunder hammer counts as a power fist, but any model wounded by it and not killed may not attack untill the end of the next assault phase." Thus it is quite clear that yes you can perform perma-stun on something Hit it once so it strikes at the end of the assault phase (i.e after I1 strikes) and then keep wounding it so it can never strike back (wounded before it strikes means no attacks this turn) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 "Until" means "at the time of" in a basic way, but I can understand missing that subtlety. Hows the italian copy read? I'm sorry I have the english codex and so I don't know how is it written in italian :) DH Codex states and I quote: "A thunder hammer counts as a power fist, but any model wounded by it and not killed may not attack untill the end of the next assault phase." Thus it is quite clear that yes you can perform perma-stun on something Hit it once so it strikes at the end of the assault phase (i.e after I1 strikes) and then keep wounding it so it can never strike back (wounded before it strikes means no attacks this turn) Except all I one strikes happen at the same time- so it swung when your TH did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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