SoB vs. BT in reguards to CC

[Adeptus Templar]

As the title says which would be better at getting up close and personal with the enemy? (ie CC)

I am thinking of starting a small BT army, 1k, but I would like to stay .

If the mods feel that this thread is in the wrong place plz feel free it.

[Hellbreaker]

I'm going to state the obvious.

 

Guardsmen in power armour with boltguns don't stand up to much in CC.

 

Cheers!

[Apogee]

Sisters have one good move in CC, but only reall ywhen in mass numbers. Charge, then use Divine Guidance (after you roll to hit!) and hope for lots of rending attacks. After the charge, you're down to one attack each, so E help you if there is alot of them left.

 

The obvious flipside to this is, why not just SHOOT them? Very few circumstances where this isn't better. Best ideas are when you want to remove your opponents ability to shoot the sisters on his turn, and when you want a nice big fat block of LOS blocking.

 

Also, if the opponent doesn't wont' slaughter you first and has a low armour save (like Orks/guardsmen), go with Hand of the Emperor. +2 STR is generally better than rending for them, and your power armour will help save most sisters. I've slaughtered Orks before in melee with a Sister blob. Good times. Remeber that denying the charge is key for Orks and some other units. Furious charge hurts.

 

Again, really only useful when you've got a good reason to NOT shoot them.

[WarriorFish]

This is a very odd question! Have you checked the stats of Sisters?

[Chengar Qordath]

This is a very odd question! Have you checked the stats of Sisters?

Agreed; Black Templars are very obviously superior in close combat due to higher WS, S, T, and I, as well as actually being equipped for close combat. The sisters are a shooting army with a few decent assault units; Black Templars are one of the scarier assault armies in the game (Assault Terminators with Furious Charge and the ability to re-roll all misses. Need I say more?).

[ArmouredWing]

Sisters have one good move in CC, but only reall ywhen in mass numbers. Charge, then use Divine Guidance (after you roll to hit!) and hope for lots of rending attacks. After the charge, you're down to one attack each, so E help you if there is alot of them left.

 

The obvious flipside to this is, why not just SHOOT them? Very few circumstances where this isn't better. Best ideas are when you want to remove your opponents ability to shoot the sisters on his turn, and when you want a nice big fat block of LOS blocking.

 

Also, if the opponent doesn't wont' slaughter you first and has a low armour save (like Orks/guardsmen), go with Hand of the Emperor. +2 STR is generally better than rending for them, and your power armour will help save most sisters. I've slaughtered Orks before in melee with a Sister blob. Good times. Remeber that denying the charge is key for Orks and some other units. Furious charge hurts.

 

Again, really only useful when you've got a good reason to NOT shoot them.

There's more than 1 good move when it comes to sisters and CC. Needless to say if they're in CC it will generally be the case that they've been charged after standing and rapid firing an enemy unit as it's rarely a good idea to get into CC first with a battle sister squad (WS3, S3, 2A on the charge compared to BS4, S4, 2 shots). You really would have to ask yourself if you'd acheive as much damage through getting up close and personal as apossed to standing off and rapid firing.

 

Sisters are not a CC army although there are CC elements in some of the units, however the thing to remember is that those elements are there to be used alongside shooting (in the case of Seraphim for instance) or there to be used in a defensive capacity to even the odds when attacked.

[Apogee]

Sisters have one good move in CC, but only reall ywhen in mass numbers. Charge, then use Divine Guidance (after you roll to hit!) and hope for lots of rending attacks. After the charge, you're down to one attack each, so E help you if there is alot of them left.

 

The obvious flipside to this is, why not just SHOOT them? Very few circumstances where this isn't better. Best ideas are when you want to remove your opponents ability to shoot the sisters on his turn, and when you want a nice big fat block of LOS blocking.

 

Also, if the opponent doesn't wont' slaughter you first and has a low armour save (like Orks/guardsmen), go with Hand of the Emperor. +2 STR is generally better than rending for them, and your power armour will help save most sisters. I've slaughtered Orks before in melee with a Sister blob. Good times. Remeber that denying the charge is key for Orks and some other units. Furious charge hurts.

 

Again, really only useful when you've got a good reason to NOT shoot them.

There's more than 1 good move when it comes to sisters and CC. Needless to say if they're in CC it will generally be the case that they've been charged after standing and rapid firing an enemy unit as it's rarely a good idea to get into CC first with a battle sister squad (WS3, S3, 2A on the charge compared to BS4, S4, 2 shots). You really would have to ask yourself if you'd acheive as much damage through getting up close and personal as apossed to standing off and rapid firing.

 

Sisters are not a CC army although there are CC elements in some of the units, however the thing to remember is that those elements are there to be used alongside shooting (in the case of Seraphim for instance) or there to be used in a defensive capacity to even the odds when attacked.

 

 

If your Sisters have been charged, odds are it's game over for them anyway, unless it's grots ;). Black Templar will just eat them up - a 3+ invulnerable won't help against a mob of units. And a large Sisters unit can't do tha initiative boost, so you're going last, and it's going to hurt.

 

Do BT always have 'nades? Perhaps sit in cover, then go Str 5?

[ArmouredWing]

If your Sisters have been charged, odds are it's game over for them anyway, unless it's grots :P. Black Templar will just eat them up - a 3+ invulnerable won't help against a mob of units. And a large Sisters unit can't do tha initiative boost, so you're going last, and it's going to hurt.

 

Do BT always have 'nades? Perhaps sit in cover, then go Str 5?

I disagree. If sisters are charged it will usually be by a unit which should have sustained casualties during the shooting phase, with this in mind you should aim to reduce numbers in the potential attacking squad to the point where sisters will at least tarpit for a number of turns with the potential for eliminating the target's ability to move on for a number of turns.

 

The misconception is that sisters get eaten alive in CC but they are a lot more hardy than people give them credit for and a 3+ save, whether it be inv or not, goes a long long way to improve their chances of survival.

 

Ultimately the key is to draw a squad in, rapid fire/template and then mop up when they subsequently get charged. Force your opponents hand and make them dance to your tune.

[number6]

It's not that Sisters are terrible close combatants, but the fact is that BTs rank as one of the better assault armies in the game right now. Not the best, but definitely a very strong one. They have the "Accept Any Challenge" vow which is one of the best force multiplication rules in any codex. Combine with Zeal for footsloggers and easy mechanization for mounted units, and you have a recipe for nasty nasty assaults.

 

Sisters just cannot generate that kind of close combat offense. Generally speaking, you put sisters in close combat to tar-pit a unit -- which is what their close-combat oriented faith powers are really good for -- or to hopefully finish a depleted unit off. Beyond tar-pitting, you shouldn't expect great performance in close combat out of sisters. Units even halfway designed and built for assault will generate more damage than faithful Sisters units.

 

So if you want actual damage output, you want BTs.

 

But if you want a shooty support unit that can almost single-handedly hold up dangerous enemy infantry units, Sisters are a fantastic choice. It's a role they're very good at, AND you can mount them, give them meltas, get some mileage out of Faith, etc. As allied units, however, note that your Faith supply is very very limited, and Faith is generally what makes Sisters capable tar-pitting units. So you'll only get a turn or two of this if you're taking Sisters allies and not an entire Sisters army.

[thade]

Ally in some Grey Knights? They are still Ordos units and excel in CC.