Laziness was my undoing.

[Commander Sasha]

I just got hideously spanked by mechanised Orks.

I'll be the first to admit I'm inexperienced, but I fear an Ork army has to be very badly put together to NOT have the edge over vanilla marines.

This post is more a caveat (and a straw poll) for others that see a 5 or 6 come up for the deployment, and go "shall we just go for long edges instead?"

 

I did, and as he had first turn, both of his Battle Wagons, and all 3 Trukks were on the table middle line before he'd even shot once.

 

His 3 lone Deffkoptas had scouted to attacking range on my Whirly, Thunderfire and 1 Tac squad, and promptly WeapDest the WW, destroyed the Thunderfire, and engaged the Tacs, preventing them from firing.

His Lootas did what Lootas always do: shoot far too effectively for greenskins!

 

My reserves failed to appear in round 2, and I threw in the towel before my third turn.

 

He was a nice guy, and I suspect a much better player than me, and I enjoyed the game, but OUCH!

 

The moral of this story is: Dawn of War would have kept all his vehicles further away for at least one good round of shooting, instead the Killhammer gap was irretrievably widened before I'd finished my first pint!

 

None of this will be news to you seasoned veterans, I'm sure, but I wish I'd read this post before I played yesterday's game!

[Brother Santios]

Unlucky with that - I HATE Dawn of War deployments - it kept 2 landraiders of of the fight for me once until turn 4 and by then Orky goodness had chewed me a new one ....

 

Those Deffkoptas are nasty too - an extremely potent force that I once ignored to my peril ... never ever again hehe

[Koremu]

I love Dawn of War. I slap a Rhino full of Tactical Marines midfield, barrel toward the enemy at full pelt and illuminate a unit on turn one. Then the rest of the army opens up while remaining hidden itself. I usually lose the Rhino, but it's worth it for getting that crucial initial edge.

[chapter master 454]

trust me, DoW deploymeny favours the assault armies because it cuts out nearly an entire turn of wading up field. just take your medicine and learn as they say. however, never ignore deff koptas an if anything if their transports do even one movement then that's normally more than what the ork player hopes for. In future basicly Dow will kill you if facing orks and even then if they get first turn that will seal your fate unless your army is a bolter blitz barrage of blasting. Lesson: ork mech lists can have a charge range of up to 20" charge, and if he ain't charged on turn one then turn two will more likely be it. Just grit your teeth and hope for better next time, some deployment styles favour other armies more than others.

[Commander Sasha]

What has been said makes sense, but is the opposite of what I thought!?

Surely DoW means that a lot of his army would have taken longer to reach me?

His Lootas couldn't have fired in round 1, and as he actually deployed them up a 6" ruin, he wouldn't have fired in round 2 if he wanted to get that high.

I guess 2 of his Trukks would have set up just his side of the midline, but the other trukk and both the Battlewagon would have been starting from the backline, wouldn't they?

1 of the Battlewagons had his Forcefield Mek; that couldn't have started on the board unless his Mek changed ride or hoofed it?

 

Thanks for the replies and advice :D

[deepstrike]

reserve everything could help

[Commander Sasha]

reserve everything could help

Ooh, I like that!

I've been experimenting with running Bike captain Sasha as Khan (renamed Jemima!)

A whole flanking army would be a messy battle, confounding his plans.

I think I'm ready for my re-match!

[Grey Mage]

reserve everything could help

Ooh, I like that!

I've been experimenting with running Bike captain Sasha as Khan (renamed Jemima!)

A whole flanking army would be a messy battle, confounding his plans.

I think I'm ready for my re-match!

Howd he get all of that out on the table turn 1?

[adam_dup]

In dawn of war deployments all of your units arrive on turn1, UNLESS you elect to keep them as reserves. When it says arrive as reserves it only means off the edge of the table. So you both deploy your 0-1 HQ and 0-2 troops and then whomever has turn 1 bring all his other units on from his table edge and then the other does the same once its his turn. So you should NEVER be waiting for a land raider until turn 4

[ShinyRhino]

Dawn of War is hell against every opponent. It's the most idiotic deployment method they couldpossibly have thought up. It heavily favors whoever gets to go first, allowing that person to eliminate half of the board for their opponent bu deploying right on the centerline. The person going second therefore has a whopping 6" of available deployment area. Huzzah!

(can you tell I hate DoW setup?)

 

Any Ork player is going to hug that centerline, and cut down your area of deployment to that 6" strip at the back of the board. Then they'll be going first, and getting off a first-turn charge via their Trukk. Hurrah.

 

The only way to combat this is to either deploy NOTHING at the start, and have your entire army roll on from the board edge during your first Movement phase. Declare your reserves as normal.

Outflanking units are great in Dawn of War, however. If your opponent decides to hug that centerline, your outflanking reserves have a huge safe area to arrive in. Close you your edge, or close to the opponent's.

 

Never say "let's just deploy from board edges" when you're playing a DoW game. You're essentially extending the game by a fullt urn if you do that. Fast Attack and mobile armies actually benefit from the reduced firing and deployment of a DoW setup. Fewer rounds of shooting at you means more surviving troops, though that works both ways.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

How big is the table you are playing on?

What points were you playing?

What did you field and what did he field?

What did you deploy (1 HQ and 2 TROOPS) what did he deploy?

 

What adam_dup said is true.

 

Quoting ShinyRhino

Any Ork player is going to hug that centerline, and cut down your area of deployment to that 6" strip at the back of the board. Then they'll be going first, and getting off a first-turn charge via their Trukk. Hurrah.

 

The Orks will move 12" deploy 2" and assault 6". Make sure You are > 20" from the centreline. That give you one Turn (better than nothing) to pop his Trukks and/or mow down da Boyz.

 

It seems our peers generally think DoW definitely favours assault armies :) . I am not so sure. :jaw:

 

How about this:

TURN 1. He hoons 'A' forwards, but fails to assault because you are close to the edge. 'B' arrives from his table edge. '1' blazes at 'A'. '2' arrives from your edge and they manage to destroy the piecemeal 'A'. It is your whole army v 1 HQ and 2 TROOPS!

TURN 2. I don't need to go on as he is in far worse a position than he was at the start of the game.

 

How about that scenario?

 

We need the details and then we can theorise a plan for you. :yes:

[Ming]

DOW against Orks? A problem? ....hmmmm....fighting a good orc player in any scenario is a problem.

 

My thoughts (when I remember them) for DOW -

 

1. He who sets up first controls the deployment of the other. Shiny is right - a good ork player will force you back to within 6 inches of your table edge. This can impact your ability to deploy in good terrain and maintain a fall back distance you can recover from.

 

2. DOW calls for 1 HG and 2 troops. Other discussions at B&C remind us the rules exclude dedicated transports from this deployment. That means for a marine player maybe 2 10-marine squads start on the board with one IC. If you do not have terrain to hide behind or in, best to deploy nothing. Everything rolls in on your turn, but counts as moving. The fact that dedicated transports are not deployed can hurt any strategy involving search lights.

 

3. Never reserve or combat anything when fighting a horde army. You absolutely need every gun firing on turn 1. You don't want small, easily wiped out units. You need every man at his gun.

 

4. Regarding the above, you need to carefully weigh deploying first against orks. When in doubt but you have the chance, deploy first. Right across the center forward edge of battle. Use the cheapest speed bump you have. Might even break rule #3 above and use one tac squad, split in two, as far forward as allowed. This means if the orks can assault those guys on their turn, you still have space to react with using the remainder of your army on turn 2 (when the sun comes up). It also forces the horde to bunch up, good fun for ordnance barrages.

 

5. Some enemy units can have a 20-inch assault range or so, gotta watch that or expect it to happen in DOW. On the other hand, that means the assaulters are out in your kill zone, ready to be shot up or countercharged, and you need to do it.

 

6. Against hordes, it is not usually "kill them all" but "get more kill points than them". 2 things help here - (1) If he trukks forward, trukks are easy kill points, and much easier to gain than killing mobz. (2) Stay castled right or left, do not spread out unless that is your tactical plan (done delberately). Against most hordes, is best for you to stay concentrated and supporting, than spread and dead. Sometimes, however, a tactical genious uses a unit to "spread the defense" (NFL football term) and cause confusion in the ranks of the horde. An example of this would be to zoom in landspeeder to the far left after the rest of your army castles far right. Another example is podding in your sternguard to the right far horde rear, while you stay castled far left. The benefit of a small front is that the horde often gets choked into small areas in front of you, making it harder for follow on-units of the horde to get into the action.

 

7. If you are reading this you are likely an I4 army in HTH. Use force multipliers to get the best benefit from that.

[ShinyRhino]

2. DOW calls for 1 HG and 2 troops. Other discussions at B&C remind us the rules exclude dedicated transports from this deployment. That means for a marine player maybe 2 10-marine squads start on the board with one IC. If you do not have terrain to hide behind or in, best to deploy nothing. Everything rolls in on your turn, but counts as moving. The fact that dedicated transports are not deployed can hurt any strategy involving search lights.

 

You can deploy a Dedicated Transport for a Troops unit, but it'll count as one of your Troops units.