At a loss with the Horus Heresy Series.

[ThralKhan]

I know how you feel, but the way I look at it, is there are so many things happening during this period, that it wouldn't do the story justice if they wrote a cut and dry story about Horus going back and killing the Emperor. When the series first came out, it was runored that there was only going to be 9 books. I'm glad they've gone past that. Don't forget Tales from the Heresy. There are some good short stories in there.

 

I liked Fulgrim, stick with it...I think you'd be missing out if you didn't read it til the end. Mechanicum was also good. It gave some excellent insight on the Emperor.

 

The two Dark Angels books were good and built up the history. I know the Space Wolves/1k Sons books will be good as well.

 

Just keep in mind that each book won't follow a specific time line. Each one has a story to tell.

 

I'm just hoping they tell the story about Lorgar and the Word Bearers and how they became chaos' whispering voice to Horus.

[ArcticFox]

I'm about 2/3 of the way through Mechanicum now (Having read them all in order so far).

 

The first 3 are a complete trilogy, all about the same in quality, in my mind. I think that's probably the best example of the authors' collaborating. FoE and Fulgrim are sort of like side stories about the trilogy, interacting with it and filling in gaps and details. I liked that about them. I like Captain Tarvitz a lot and was glad to see how his story was resolved, and his story was woven with Garro's which made me like FoE. (I especially liked the ending of FoE as a Black Templars player. I got all excited when I realized who had boarded Einstein. ;))

 

Descent was hard to get into, mainly because it was a massive culture and pace change from what had gone before. It was like suddenly switching to a completely different series. I'm not sure I understand why they decided to do it that way. The book itself was okay, I regard it as a necessary read to help appreciate the really good ones. :woot:

 

Legion was also fairly weak for me. It was like "aliens aliens aliens aliens oh, and by the way, Chaos! Sort of... but not really..." The Alpha Legion intrigued me, and did leave me wanting to know more of their story, so in that sense the book was a success.

 

Abyss... Good. Nice adventure story. Can't really say much more about it. It was fun to read but wasn't very deep.

 

Mechanicum... better than I anticipated so far. I like the different perspectives from other parts of Imperial society.

[Phoenix Knight]

I gave up reading the horus heresy books at the travesty that is Fulgrim. Ferrus Manus was written not as befits a Primarch. I would be pretty pissed if i was a iron hands player. The dropsite setup was reasonably faithful to the older fluff, but all the extra detail added nothing for me. Where is the tragedy? The moral dilemnas and insidious nature of Chaos pushing men to the edge and then over it? The authors for the BL just dont have the depth and skill to do this justice.

 

The whole series hangs on a convincing and thought provoking fall of Horus and the other Primarchs to Chaos. None of that aspect in any of the books was well written. Horus' fall in particular as the pivotal moment was very poor in my opinion.

 

The only story i really liked was Garro's. Good ending.

 

They should not write the final battle as they will never do it justice.

 

I await Blood Pact as my next BL fix worth waiting for.

[Pacific81]

Sorry Phoenix Night but you just made me chuckle, thinking about the outrage when the Collected Visions books were first released.

 

"Fulgrim dropped Ferrus Mannus's head infront of Horus?!?!111?!!?one!?!! WHHAAATTT?!"

 

You would never have known there were so many Iron Hands players - the wall of noise that hit some of the forums from disgruntled players was quite remarkable.

 

I agree though that the fall of Horus has not really been handled very well, and considering this is the linchpin on which the entire fate of the Imperium (and humanity?) rests this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

 

Read the beginning of Collected Visions II - There is a quite stirring speach by Horus which I think makes more of a case for his betrayal than the whole of False Gods combined, in that it sits firmly away from 'A wizard did it'.

[Phoenix Knight]

Sorry Phoenix Night but you just made me chuckle, thinking about the outrage when the Collected Visions books were first released.

 

"Fulgrim dropped Ferrus Mannus's head infront of Horus?!?!111?!!?one!?!! WHHAAATTT?!"

 

You would never have known there were so many Iron Hands players - the wall of noise that hit some of the forums from disgruntled players was quite remarkable.

 

I agree though that the fall of Horus has not really been handled very well, and considering this is the linchpin on which the entire fate of the Imperium (and humanity?) rests this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

 

Read the beginning of Collected Visions II - There is a quite stirring speach by Horus which I think makes more of a case for his betrayal than the whole of False Gods combined, in that it sits firmly away from 'A wizard did it'.

I have to admit that its hard to take it too seriously when the guy is called Ferrus Manus. Considering all the Primarchs were probably thought up in 5 minutes each as a bit of a laugh by the original Rogue Trader team GW are going a bit far to try and go all 'literary heavyweight'.

[Yogi]

I have Mechanicum.. The only time I was able to read it was when I was on shift babysitting contractors all night. Even then, it was boring. Mechanicum is the worst HH book and I still haven't finished it.

 

It could be me, but..

 

I really think they need to whip these HH writers more. They basically write whatever they feel I think. I think they need to write more about what people want to read. Legion vs Legion. Rivalry between primarchs. The sagas of these great legions. The banter between the Primarchs. Terrible enemies, great battles, tough choices and the fall into madness of all the chaos worshippers. All of that and less remeberancers getting murdered.. I dont care about remeberancers and they're plight. I read 40k for war.

 

Like Fulgrim the book which would of been better IMO if it had been just about primarch himself from his point of view. His selfishness, his injured ego, his quest for perfection, and then the horror of witnessing the demon taking over him, as his soul/personality writhes in eternal torment at being tricked with the daemon's constant laughter as he twists fulgrims legion into what pleases him.

 

That would be a book 40k fans would want to read.. has that ever been done before? Not to my knowledge. Would you want to read that?

 

You may say, oh what if they stuff up this new fulgrim book? Id say havent they already done that? Isnt Fulgrim potrayed as a vain whiny punk? That was my perception from the the HH book. You cant fail when you already have. Do it Black library produce book we want to read, whip those writers into writing something worth reading. If these books were stand alone (not connected to 40k) NOBODY would read them.

 

Thats what I think.

[Pacific81]

At least you got 'IMO' in there Yogi....

 

That post is quite possibly the exact opposite of what I think on the issue ;)

[Yogi]

@ Pacific: So you are telling me the exact opposite is what appeals to you? Seeing things from remebramancers eyes only. Hardly encountering the primarch at all in the book. The story full of conversation and argument but little battles? Surely not?

 

Or are you just saying you prefer it the way it is. (Which I still wouldn't understand) Or again are just talking about mechanicum being good?

 

Are you happy with the current subject matter and topics the HH books have covered. Really? Completely happy?

 

Do tell.

[Lord_Caerolion]

No, I don't want to force the writers to write about specific things, because if they don't want to write about it yet, then they won't put all their effort into it.

Plus, I like that they're expanding on the Heresy. The books would have been boring if they were simply "book one: Horus goes rogue. Book two: Horus attacks earth. Book three: Horus is killed."

 

Plus, there seems to be a conflict in what you're asking for. On one hand, you don't want the books to be "full of conversation and argument but little battles", but you also want them to explore complex moral themes like the corruption of Fulgrim. You can't fully demonstrate a moral decline by just having battles: "Battle one: Fulgrim is normal. Battle two, Fulgrim gets sword, becomes slightly naughty. Battle three: Fulgrim is evil."

[Pacific81]

Yogi, sorry mate that was written after a bit of a tipple and only 3 hours sleep, I will try and be more specific! :D

 

I heard a quote from Mr. Abnett where he was saying that the Heresy is about more than just marines fighitng each other, and I'm glad that this is the direction they have decided to take. This is the time in history that defines the 41st millenium, where mankind was on the cusp of dominion of the galaxy but had it torn away at the last second as a result of its own failings. Sure, the buck stopped with Horus (although you could make argument that another Primach might have acted in the same way eventually), but there are a whole plethora of characters and other actors surrounding both sides who have interesting tales to tell.

 

The rembrancers are an important part of this, and are essentially a tool used by the authors to define the turn of events - I don't think its possible to really relate to events as told by a genetically modified, two centuries old warrior god, and the essentially human perspective from the rembrancers gives us a much needed constant to base our observations upon. The strained relationship between astartes and human in the various books serves as a gauge to the transitions which some of the legions take - in the case of Fulgrim, for example, not only do we see the fall of the legion, but we understand that fall in the way in which it turns previously, normal human beings into a sickening development of their former selves. James Swallow uses a similar method when describing the relationship with the lgions 'serfs' in Flight of the Eisenstein. Its no coincidence that those astartes who dislike them most end up falling furthest from their humanity, and ultimately on the side of Horus.

 

So, although the actions and stories are nowhere near as exciting as those of the astartes, I think their presence in the novel is vital for what is ultimately a drama of human emotion. After all, the Horus Heresy is such a drama - it is about the loyalty of son to father and of brothers, about betrayal, about the nature of freedom and servitude - about any number of human relationships really! I'm not sure how more details written from the perspective of a Primarch would work - McNeil does it fairly well in Fulgrim I felt, but again is it really possible to relate directly to the thoughts and feelings of a being such as a Primarch? They stretch the definition of 'human' to its very limit, and I question whether any of us would be able to follow the internal monologue that takes place within their heads.

 

I'm sorry that you didn't like Mechanicum, but I enjoyed it and think its an important book in the series. We read so much in 40k about how technology has stagnated to the point of psuedo-religious dogma, where humanity reached its peak and is gradually falling back into the abyss (infact, this is a dominant factor in the whole 'grim dark' scenario). Well, Mechanicum plots the events in which that slide begins. There is a quote from the end of that book which I think sums it up perfectly, and still gives me a feeling of sadness and sends a shiver down my spine when I read it:

 

The Magma City finally sank beneath the great inland lake of lava. The last of its towers were cast down, Zeth's inner forge filled with lava, and all her great works were destroyed as thoroughly as though they had never existed. And with their destruction, all hope of lifting the Imperium into a golden age of scientific progress, not seen since humanity set forth from its birthrock, was lost forever.

 

But, finally I guess that its all down to horses for courses. For me, the characters involved are the most important part of the books, and help create such a richly defined, almost Dune-like in its complexity, universe. To the point where, after reading dozens of books over the past 2 decades, I almost feel like I could reach out and touch it. The action sequences are always fun of course, but they are meaningless with the context of the wider picture. Just my thoughts on this, sorry they are still a bit muddled but I tried my hardest :)

[Tyyr]

Personally I enjoyed Fulgrim for the most part. It's not the deepest, most powerfully written fall from grace ever but it did a decent job of things. I never found myself thinking that a character was acting some way just because the author needed them to. Everyone had motivations and reasons for why they did what they did and stayed true to them.

 

The one real issue that I had with it was the Dropsite Massacre, or the distinct lack thereof. Its one of the pivotal moments in the history of the Space Marines and I think it got less pages in the book than taking the outpost on the edge of the Isstavan system. It was the first time in the HH books where I read something and had the reaction, "That's IT!?"

 

On the whole it was a solid book but with one HUGE fumble in it.

[Yogi]

Thanks for the reply pacific. I forgot to reply ages ago..

 

I dont think its hard to report a story from a god like figure.. lightning tower and dark knight did this well I thought..

 

Anyways I'd still prefer what I suggested, but like you said horses for courses.