Narthecium Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Pretty straightforward...can you find verbiage / actual page numbers or evidence that would disallow purchasing a dedicated transport without purchasing the unit it was dedicated for? For instance, can you find something that would disallow me purchasing a rhino without purchasing the tactical squad? Just a few of us discussing this one and while majority consensus seems to be that obviously a "dedicated transport" would be bought for a particular unit, we can't find any verbiage/pages to disprove the theory that you could buy the rhino withou the tac squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 But the transport doesn't occupy a FO slot which means that the only way to take it is with a unit. Otherwise SM chapters could have two Land Raiders and then three heavy suport choices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Hm. Wall of cheap transports to block my troops and contest objectives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedric Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Off the top of my head i remember the wording of the codexes to be somethign along "if you purchase unit X, it can be given dedicated transport Y". Now, if you don't purchase X, you forego the option of upgrading it with a transport at all. The dedicated transport comes with the unit or it wouldn't be a "dedicated" transport. The LR seems to be the one exeption of a non-dedicated transport in the SM codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 But the transport doesn't occupy a FO slot which means that the only way to take it is with a unit. Otherwise SM chapters could have two Land Raiders and then three heavy suport choices That was brought up and the point was raised that neither does an imperial priest, but you can certainly take one on it's own. I'm more along the lines of thinking that because it is listed as something that can be purchased with the unit (in the back of the codex in the unit summaries) that it's proven that you need to take the unit to purchase the transport. Much like a piece of wargear but one that happens to act as a unit on the field. But I don't have my codex or rulebook with me currently so I'd need precise page and wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 But the Imperial Priest mentions that it doesn't, right? A dedicated transport cannot as otherwise you'd have people rocking up with five heavy support choices and no terminators. "These two land raiders are dedicated transports" "For what?" "Terminators" Doesn't work in my mind, the point is it is dedicated, therefore assigned to a unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I think it would come down to the FOC. You may only take what the FOC allows, and while they dont use up a slot they are still neither HQ, troops, elite, fast attack, or heavy untill they are chosen WITH a unit. You can still chose preists as they are still HQ, desipite not useing up a slot. Though I cant find anywere this is explicitly stated, its what makes the most sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 See that's how I see it too. To be honest I don't have my IG codex with me so I can't specifically check priest wording. The issue is that while everyone seems to agree that it is that way, we can't find supporting evidence. Doesn't mean that it wasn't simply overlooked, also doesn't mean that you can suddenly just load up on twelve rhinos and five land raiders...just not sure how specifically to disprove it. It's less of an argument and a more of all of us sitting around scratching our heads for the solution. Best we can come up with right now is the aforementioned listing of it in that manner in the back of the marine codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 p134 "May select a Rhino or Razorback." p135 "Some marine units have the option of selecting a dedicated transport vehicle." No Easter Egg for you. :) RoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 First off I'm not looking for an easter egg so your hostility is misplaced. Read the entire thread before responding, as the point you are making has already been mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 First off I'm not looking for an easter egg so your hostility is misplaced. Read the entire thread before responding, as the point you are making has already been mentioned. Woah. Chill dude, your hostility is misplaced, and you have made an incorrect assumption. You asked for a page reference, so I gave one. Read the entire thread before responding, and you will notice a page reference has not already been mentioned. B) RoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 I'm fine but saying "No Easter Egg for you. B) " implies that I am looking for one, but more what I'm trying to do is prove a supposed easter egg wrong. But I suppose that was just you being funny, forums are difficult to read over and normally internet=snarky. That along with your signature told me you thought I was another "rules lawyer wishful thinker loophole exploiter" that you had to crusade against. And yes I agree that those pages would tend to support the fact that they are dedicated transports but they don't do a good enough job disproving that you can get the transport without the unit (which I disagree with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 No worries, we all make mistakes. :) The blurb at the top of the Transports page describes how they take no force org. slots, "but otherwise function as seperate units". Seperate to what? The squad that chose it. The description for transport selection doesn't make sense if they didn't come with a unit. It doesn't say they MUST come with another unit in as many words, but the rules make no sense if they don't come as a transport selection for another unit. RoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arikel Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Even if you could purchase transporst with no attached squad you wouldn't be able to get 5 land raiders. You can only buy one for a termie sqaud as a transport if you buy the termie squad, otherwise it takes up a HS slot. What kind of makes me sad about not being able to purchase real transports separately is it prevents full usage of the Razorback tank, as you can take only one per squad, so by taking razor backs you are either taking reduced squad numbers, or forced to combat squad, if you actually want to move around in them. If you could buy more Razorbacks separately, you could achieve that iron hands dream of having your full army roaring forwards and blasting away foes with their holy armaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 [p67 BRB] Dedicated Transports: "Sometimes a unit entry in a Codex will include a transport option, allowing a vehicle to be selected together with the unit." My bold. The ruling being if you don't take the said unit then you can't field the associated dedicated transport. I can't see how it can be any clearer. There is nothing anywhere that says that dedicated transports can be taken without their associated unit, besides how would you have access to it through the Force Org Chart as it doesn't occupy a slot?? Cheers I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 Excellent, I think that page is precisely what we were looking for! Thanks! @Arikel: I think you're missing the point, but yes you could take 5 LR because you could take three in heavy support slots and two as dedicated transports (one for a shooty termie squad, one for an assaulty termy squad). It's actually legal to do this in a game if you pay the points for everything. However, we were speaking of hypothetically being able to purchase a transport without actually paying for the unit, not how many land raiders you could bring. I think you just forgot that you could have two dedicated transports for termies. And really if we wanted to be super silly about it, I think we could also squeeze in another one or two by allying grey knights properly (though I don't have my codex handy so can't verify that this would work, but pretty sure it would using certain units and their transport options). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Even if you could purchase transporst with no attached squad you wouldn't be able to get 5 land raiders. You can only buy one for a termie sqaud as a transport if you buy the termie squad, otherwise it takes up a HS slot. One per type of terminator squad and without that page reference you could simply say two were dedicated transports for terminator squads who didn't make it to the battle. I'm glad though this is clearly defined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arikel Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Even if you could purchase transporst with no attached squad you wouldn't be able to get 5 land raiders. You can only buy one for a termie sqaud as a transport if you buy the termie squad, otherwise it takes up a HS slot. One per type of terminator squad and without that page reference you could simply say two were dedicated transports for terminator squads who didn't make it to the battle. I'm glad though this is clearly defined. Ah but that's the point, a rhino and a razorback are classed as a transport specifically, a Land Raider is classed as a heavy support unit. If we were allowing the hypothetical purchase of transport units with no squad, you still couldn't buy a landraider as a transport FOC because it fits into the existing heavy support chocies, unless you were buying the terminator squad which allows it to be selected as a transport choice as a special option (similar to how a MotF would allow purchase of dreadnaughts as elite and heavy support chocies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 Sorry Arikel, I get what you're saying but you're missing the point entirely. The question was whether you could hypothetically buy a dedicated transport of any sort without needing to purchase the requisite squad. In the example you cited I could simply take three land raiders heavy support and then say the other two were dedicated. Like I said I get what you're saying but I think you're not getting what I'm asking. Either way the page cited by Isiah pretty much ended the query right there, as everyone in the group agreed that was strong enough proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronk Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 For those wishing to take 10+ land raiders, the Black Templars are recruiting! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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