TWM

[Toasterfree]

OK so we are all clamoring over TWM and how they modify our hero's. i think we all agree that there is modification, but I want to specifically address the str of power fists and thunder hammers.

 

Im going to start with the rules for PF/TH.

Power fist

A power fist is a power weapon, and also doubles the user's Strength (up to a maximum of 10).

Thunder hammer

A thunder hammer uses the same rules as a power fist.

 

TWM

...adds +1 Strength, +1 Toughness, and +1 Attack to his profile.

 

This would seen that a WL on a TWM would have S10. But now we go back to the BRB

If a model has a combination of rules or wargear tha bothadd to and multiply one of its characteristics, first multiply the basic value and thenadd the extra points. For example, if a model with Strength 4 has both '+1 Strength' and 'double Strength', its final Strength will be 9. (4x2=8 8+1=0)

 

After seeing this I recant my original position on a WL having a S 10 pf/th while on a TWM.

 

This also would mean, if it were possible, to get S 10 from having a Frost weapon and a PF

[HERO]

Welcome to 2 weeks ago.

[Schertenleib]

Well please forgive those of us that don't read every forum.

 

Thanks for the info Toaster.

[Token]

it should be s9 according to the rules, but i think it will be s10 when the official faq/errata comes out..

[dublindawg]

Finally, I think everyone is getting on the same page. Hopefully you have come to like the TWM now Toast....

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I am always touched when after someone has been persuaded away from a perhaps strongly held position that they have shared publicly, to then say they embrace a new direction - that they had once opposed, even though they could be stubborn and dig their heels in. Your humility is excellent.

 

God loves humility.

 

Two thumbs up from me. :)

[Toasterfree]

thank you, how ever it was the FAQ thread that made me go ahead and just sit with a BRB and pour over it. and then i found that this afternoon

[HERO]

Yeah. Now if we had some real models for Thunderwolves :S

[Toasterfree]

i also was of the opinion that a hero with hunter could not BEL, until tonight. and here is why.

 

infantry only... The character has the ability to outflank and stealth rule.

 

If a Wolf Scout makes use of its ability to outflank...

 

and i am not going to waste my time with the outflank rules out of BRB. so WGBL away with your scouts. he has the ability to outflank and is attached to your scouts. when they outflank they can BEL, and as such so can he.

[Coverfire]

I have more or less ignored the issues of the Thunderwolf mount until there was a clear concise answer either by the discussions on B&C or an Official FAQ. In the absence of a much needed FAQ I will see if B&C have decided on the answers.

 

As stated above Thunder Hammer on a Thunderwolf Mount is 9 not 10? I would have thought 10 personally but for no better argument then those that have questioned this before me and also for the fact I like the idea or insta-killing Plague Marines.

 

The other item which I hope is cleared up (by the majority of posters) by now is are riders of the Thunderwolf Mounts T5 or T 4/5 (excepting Canis of course).

 

Again with Canis really as the only example I would have thought T5 but he is a named character and therefore a surviver with better stats.

[HERO]

:cuss, I'm using him with true S5, T5 and +1A. I don't care what other people say. I have my reasons and my gaming group agrees with me, so that's all that's needed.

 

It simply states that the stats are added to the character's profile. Doesn't mention anything about T4(5) or instant death. Same stuff from the Tyranid Codex that Phil Kelly also wrote. There's so much evidence that suggests that yes, a char riding the wolf gets T5 all around. Even the other units in the book with the mount have it. Thunderwolf Cav are Space Marines riding Thunderwolves. What is their T? 5. Canis is a Space Marine riding a Thunderwolf. What his T? 5. All the stats are already included in their profile.

 

Just go with it until they FAQ it.

[Gentlemanloser]

TWC get an extra +1W that the TWM doesn't provide. And thier Rending can be used with Special CCWs. The TWM is different, and not as good due to balance reasons.

 

As the BRB states, no T gainded from Wargear helps with ID (Unless over ridden by Codex, like the Necron Lords Destroyer Body, which the TWM entry doesn't). So WL/WGBL/IP on a TWM are T4 for ID and have S9 (Page 7 of the BRB) PF/TH.

 

This might be changed by a FAQ, I'm betting it won't be.

[breng77]

The only thing that someone pointed out to me while I was playing yesterday is that unlike other increases from wargear the TWM says that the increases are to the riders profile so it alters the profile meaning it is base S 5 and T 5.

[Toasterfree]

The only thing that someone pointed out to me while I was playing yesterday is that unlike other increases from wargear the TWM says that the increases are to the riders profile so it alters the profile meaning it is base S 5 and T 5.

yes, i agree, and since the TWM is listed in the upgrades its not wargear so its t5 for ID. but if you were to place a PF or TH on there it would only be s9 due to the multiple modifier rule

[Toasterfree]

As the BRB states, no T gainded from Wargear helps with ID (Unless over ridden by Codex, like the Necron Lords Destroyer Body, which the TWM entry doesn't). So WL/WGBL/IP on a TWM are T4 for ID and have S9 (Page 7 of the BRB) PF/TH.

TWM is listed in the upgrades section, not wargear

[Gentlemanloser]

No.

 

Wargear is the section.

 

Under it, you have sub headings of;

 

Weapons

Armour

Upgrades and other equipment

Vehicle Armoury

Sagas

 

Excluding the notion that if the TWM isn't 'wargear', then the Belt of Russ, Storm Shields, Jump Packs and Mark of the Wolven (to name a few) aren't either. The Fenrisian Wolf entry seals the deal.

 

Fenrisian Wolf/Cyberwolf (in the Upgrades and other Equipment section, like the TWM)

Fenrisian Wolves bought as Wargear are<snip>

 

The TWM is Wargear.

[Wispy]

Everyone should give their Wolf Lords on mounts Frost Blades and Saga of the Bear just so we can stop having this discussion. No need to worry about instant death, or whether it stacks to 10 or not!

[dragon950]

Ah love the new people, thunder wolves give you an extra +1 to toughness just like bikes do. But do bikes protect you from s8 and s9, no.

 

Also, you are not able to stack the benefits of two different kinds of special weapons together unless there is a special rule that allows it. So you can't stack a power fist and a frost blade together with a thunder wolf. You have to pick to gain the abilities from the power fist or the frost blade.

 

Also on rending, rending can actually be combined with power weapons and such, it is used to auto wound a target no matter the toughness or add +d3 to armor penetration.

[Wispy]

I wasn't saying they should stack the frost blade with the powerfist - I know that's not the case.

 

I was saying they should always pick the frost blade over any strength doubling weapon just to avoid the question and argument of "is it S10 or S9?"

 

Edit: Though I guess in the case of an Iron Priest, you would not have the option...

[merlonc]

Everyone should give their Wolf Lords on mounts Frost Blades and Saga of the Bear just so we can stop having this discussion. No need to worry about instant death, or whether it stacks to 10 or not!

 

Thats what I'm doing until GW makes a FAQ. No arguments that way and its still a very potent combo

[Valerian]

i also was of the opinion that a hero with hunter could not BEL, until tonight. and here is why.

 

infantry only... The character has the ability to outflank and stealth rule.

 

If a Wolf Scout makes use of its ability to outflank...

 

and i am not going to waste my time with the outflank rules out of BRB. so WGBL away with your scouts. he has the ability to outflank and is attached to your scouts. when they outflank they can BEL, and as such so can he.

 

Just because the Wolf Scouts get the ability to operate Behind Enemy Lines when they outflank, why do you assume that an Independent Character that joins the unit would get it to? It's their special unit ability, not the Battle Leader's.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Saga of the Hunter to actually be worth a damn, and it would be if a Battle Leader or Wolf Priest could take it, join the Scouts, and arrive BEL with them. However, without wording to specifically allow it, I'd say there is nothing in the rules to support your position.

 

I would, of course, allow it in friendly games with/against other Space Wolves players. Until changed with an errata or addressed in a FAQ, though, you'd have to house rule it as such.

 

Valerian