Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I was looking at the Space Wolf codex, and seeing as how Rune priest are now amazing, could it be that the new wolf codex be used for pre Heresy Thousand Sons?, the rune priests seem to fit the red Sorcerors better then the SM or CSM codexs, plus terminators can be given frost blades and power weapons, which would be closer to the blades they are depicted with, this idea has been bugging me and one of the reasons i've decided to register, also Space wolves and pure Grey knights are my 2 main armies, with Thousand sons and Salamanders being two smaller arimes i have. P.S have i made any mistakes?, this is my second post so I don't know if i've done it right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf2.3 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Sorry did I hear you right? You want to use our dex for, THOUSAND SONS!!! :rolleyes: Tell me your still sane. They have thier own dex. Have you read the post on us beating them up? Damn good post by the way made me laugh for hours (I read slowly) :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Frostfang Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 This may be heresy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalDoom Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Actually, it's pre-heresy, and the SW codex offers some strong pre-heresy options. Â Â i think it's a great idea. Current Thousand Sons are chaos, Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons, are clearly not. Â It's fluffy, and the SW codex provides the rules which would allow you to play with strong psykers, even inducting some "Grey Knights" as similar forms of pre-heresy marines, albeit more psychicly enclined, but it could be extremely fluffy and lots of fun too! Â Â I'm in favor of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I dont think it would work myself, uf you want pre-heresy 1k Sons the Wolves are pretty much opposite of what you want. Â unless you also got shiny new codex symptoms, then just go for it and get it out of your system. when your ready ti dump them i bet you can find a few buyers around here. Â WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalDoom Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 i don't see how it's opposite at all. Â Large unit sizes if he wants, four Psykers with some of the most powerful offensive and defensive psychic powers, and in numbers, CSM-Like marines, no chaosiness in regards to demon princes, mutations, so on and so forth, and a good amount of pre-heresy things the Thousand Sons would have had before going over to chaos, that the Chaos codex does not support. Â Â When it gets down to it, Converting Marines into thousand sons, calling them pre-heresy pretty much negates the use of the Chaos codex before promoting the use of any other Marine Codex, Wolves offer the best chance to have lots of psykers that are powerful in every regard, use the codex. Anyone that doesn't want to play you because of the way your Marines look isn't worth playing at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolfmxc Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 i don't see how it's opposite at all. Large unit sizes if he wants, four Psykers with some of the most powerful offensive and defensive psychic powers, and in numbers, CSM-Like marines, no chaosiness in regards to demon princes, mutations, so on and so forth, and a good amount of pre-heresy things the Thousand Sons would have had before going over to chaos, that the Chaos codex does not support.   When it gets down to it, Converting Marines into thousand sons, calling them pre-heresy pretty much negates the use of the Chaos codex before promoting the use of any other Marine Codex, Wolves offer the best chance to have lots of psykers that are powerful in every regard, use the codex. Anyone that doesn't want to play you because of the way your Marines look isn't worth playing at all.  Yes , except the good CC ability that the legion was not known for...........sorry personally i dont see it happening lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalDoom Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I suppose spamming Tactical Squads at full strength with meltaguns and bolters is fluffy then. Â Or, sacrafice a "generic legion" attribute, to fulfill a very Thousand Sons' bit of fluff via rune priests and marines that are closer to "chaos standard" than vanilla marines. Â Space Wolf armies do NOT have to be CC heavy at all, and can put up a fairly decent fight from afar, especially with Rune Priests. Â If you don't see it happening with the SW codex, what codex would better fit a Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons army? Certainly not Chaos, there are very very few options in the army that would support pre-heresy Thousand Sons fluff.... Certainly not the Vanilla Marine codex, far too "modern" and not "legion" enough for a Pre Heresy Thousand Sons army. No more psychicly adept than any other army as well, so that's no fun at all. Certainly not Blood Angels, that sounds more like Pre-Heresy world eaters if anything. Certainly not Dark Angels... for obvious reasons... hah. Black templars? Not by a long shot. Â Â Wolves are the best bet for applying fluffy rules. Building such an army would go with the expectancy that the army is fluffy, yet still playable, and certain Space Wolf options wouldn't be taken... like Mark of the Wulfen, Thunderwolves, Wolftooth necklace, so on and so forth. Â Acute senses makes sense, and it's silly that every marine does not have it. Counter-Attack doesn't really make them dominate in close combat, but it allows the Thousand Sons to advance with confidence, whilst their Psykers follow them up. In addition the support for Non-Powerfist weilding terminators, and powerful blades is present aswell, which is in no other codex. Â Â Being against the idea is like being against anyone using the Space Wolf codex that isn't painting their guys gray or baby blue... or not putting pelts on their marines. Â Creativity drives the hobby... go for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Dan Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Go ahead and do it, how you play the game is all up to you. IMO it is a bit lame. They have their own rules and you already play SW so you can play with the rules. I guess the fact that SW rules will allow you to field 4 psykers makes sense. In conclusion, it is downright heresy. Burn heretic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpsilver Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I've seen many ideas for people using the Space Wolves Codex for Counts as: [insert Whatever] Here, and usually I have absolutely no problem with it. I would never do it myself, since I like to keep to the army the codex was brought out for. Â But Thousand Sons..... I draw the line at them! :( Â All seriousness, do what you like.... but if you utter the words thousand sons in the presence of Fluff-Loving Wolves you will get the exact same response..... Heretic! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=182590 Â This is starting to get a bit much...just play the codex assigned to you! Â and for the record, the chaos codex would work awesomely well, here's why: a) no ATSHNF, which while a great ability wasnt present at the time of the Heresy. the super crazy faith in the Emperor wasnt embraced yet B) Chaos Space Marines come armed to the teeth, and with varied squad sizes. c) limited numbers of jump packs d) Different, none elemental based psychic powers. Â these are just what i can think of off the tip of my head without trying. Â WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalDoom Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 How can he play a codex assigned to him when there isn't one? Pre Heresy Thousand Sons =/= Chaos Thousand Sons. Â And They Shall Know No Fear is still fluffy, it shows the bravery, and steadfastness that embodies that of the Space Marines, and it extending to the Thousand Sons sounds fluffy to me, brave soldiers, that fight to the end, and fight smart while they're at it. Â Â The Jump pack limitation is easily solved by simply not choosing those units, which would make sense in a fluffy army, as I previously mentioned... don't take things like Mark of the Wulfen, I'm not sure if that's explainable in Thousand Sons' Fluff, but Frost Blades? A variation sure is, so it's good to go. Â Â Non-elemental powers is easy to change fluff wise. Let's go down the list of powers: Â Thunderclap -> Warp Storm generates a warp storm infront of the caster, cool! Â Living Lightning -> Psychic Lightning, storm lightning, easy comparison. Â Storm caller -> call it "Shrouding" units are shrouded in a mist of psychic energy. If 'Nids can cloud the minds of psykers with psychic energy, why not clouds of energy? Â Tempest's Wrath -> Call it... Weight of the Fallen... things in the air are brought to the ground dangerously... cool! Â Fury of the Wolf Spirits -> Psychic Blast... generic psychic pew pew. Â Murderous Hurricane -> Grasping Hands of the Warp ... crazy psychic hands grasp at the enemy, slowing them down and dragging them into the warp. Nifty. Â Jaws of the World Wolf -> Maw of the Warp... ta da. Â Â Now we've covered those bases, and kept it fluffy, with some simple renames and descriptions. Now it's very cool. Â Â Â Â Â Â As I said before, Pre-Heresy armies have no codecies, no army fights now the way they fought then, no army is structured the same, it seems Space Wolves might be closest to "legion" ideals than any current army, whilst at the same time not being flooded with demons or new technology. Â Obviously, don't use any of the special characters, and I can't see how this is a problem. Â The Thousand Sons is a name that has stayed in place, similar to Emperor's Children. Death Guard and World Eaters is mostly forgotton, replaced with more familiar names (even Emperor's Children).... respectively: Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, Noise Marines. Â So... if the Thousand Sons marines were called something else, would it be that weird? Â Do you expect someone playing World Eaters to use rules for Mark of Khorne? Or go with something more raesonable for their Pre-Heretical time period, and thus far more 'Standard' marine? Â Similarly, Emperors' Children? I would scoff at the idea of them NOT using the Vanilla Codex (or Dark Angels).. that makes far too much sense for the Pre-Heresy Emperor's Children. Â Â Â World Eaters would do well using either Raven Guard, Space Wolves, or Blood Angels, all of which seem acceptable in my mind, far more sensable than chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 do whatever floats your boat, just dont expect people to agree with you. Â and expect most people to view you as a power gamer, using the new shiny codex to justify what you want to see on the table top. Â WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalDoom Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Yeah... Real Power gamer when he doesn't take Drop Pods, Crusaders, Thunderwolves, or Fenrisian Wolves... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Lem Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 [...]could it be that the new wolf codex be used for pre Heresy Thousand Sons?[...]  Indeed, they could.  There's a difference between rules and the SW TS feud.  One takes place in the fluff, one in the set rules.  TS are the great, tragic heroes...least we can give 'em is a cool 'dex to play with now. :)  do whatever floats your boat, just dont expect people to agree with you. and expect most people to view you as a power gamer, using the new shiny codex to justify what you want to see on the table top.  WLK  That has nothing to do with powergaming. He just wants to follow with a project that the current ruling by GW for T-Sons does not pay attention to.  It's his second post on here.  He asked the community if it was alright...  ...you dare call him a PG ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Yeah... Real Power gamer when he doesn't take Drop Pods, Crusaders, Thunderwolves, or Fenrisian Wolves... :)   He is already getting enough good stuff without them, but hey, not my opponent, not my worries...  but i would wish to be at his LGS when he pulls this army out...the look of utter astonishment alone would make me a happy pup.  just remember, when this doesnt work out, lotsa wolves here willing to pick up your pieces   WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalDoom Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Yeah... Real Power gamer when he doesn't take Drop Pods, Crusaders, Thunderwolves, or Fenrisian Wolves... ;)   He is already getting enough good stuff without them, but hey, not my opponent, not my worries...  but i would wish to be at his LGS when he pulls this army out...the look of utter astonishment alone would make me a happy pup.  just remember, when this doesnt work out, lotsa wolves here willing to pick up your pieces   WLK    Sheesh, way to be Mr. Negative! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovesmuffins Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Yeah... Real Power gamer when he doesn't take Drop Pods, Crusaders, Thunderwolves, or Fenrisian Wolves... :jaw:   when this doesnt work out, lotsa wolves here willing to pick up your pieces        :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2161837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 I did not mean to cause offense, but I am sorry for any caused, but what the main reason was that the rune priests seem closer to the red sorcerors, not only for their powers, but also their runic weapons, since the Thousand sons would undoubtebly be good at dispelling enemy psychic powers, but also good at combating daemons, Battle for the Abyss may have made the Word beares stormtroopers and the Space wolves into stereoyypes, but it does give a nice impression that they can combat the daemonic. Also how am I a Power Gamer?, I have been playing Space wolves for about 4 years, most of which I have converted to have older armour, and my other main army is pure Grey knights, I admit I have a small Salamanders force, but I toyed with them before setting on Space Wolves, because I liked the FLUFF of them, and no longer use them much really, because a powergamer at my LGS has taken them with Vulkun, and takes several Land speeder Squads with Melta/HFlamer combo, thats unfluffy, the last army I use is a small Thousand Sons force, Herasy I know, but the Tragic background, combined with the whole Ancient Egyptian thing got me. And as to not knowing my fluff, I will admit I've only been playing about 6 years, and so do not have access to Rouge trader or Realms of Chaos, but I try best to get my hands on the old codexs, and I have a copy of the 2nd edition Space Wolves codex, but if you have a copy of Realms of Chaos that you no longer want I will be more then happy to take it off your hands if you want :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2166665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Using the SW codex rules to protray another army seems to have split people into "that sounds cool" or "oh noes, you're a powergamer"! Â The people accusing you of powergaming seem to ignore the fact that you don't HAVE to take an overpowered SW list. There are plenty of options that are simply useful to represent something unusual (like your Red Sorcerors with runic weapons) without playing a cookie cutter uber-list. A 1500 point (or higher) list only represents a formation deployed by an army. Since different armies will use different formations in different circumstances then there's no reason why you couldn't play a space marine army using ALL of the codexes at different times - as long as your choices are suitable and your opponent knows what they are facing. Â I've outlined plenty of alternative armies that could look amazing using SW counts-as in other threads, and I'll happily mention PH Thousand Sons from now on. Very cool idea IMHO. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2166678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 @Baba lem: post count doesnt equal experience of playing. i have only 785 posts here, and joined in 04. i have been playing since 2000. so yea, i dare. Â @ love muffins & vorpal doom: i dont post to be positive, i post to be honest. when bluntness offends you, maybe the Fang isnt the place you should be. Â @Rune Priest Ridcully: if i came off strong, i sure as heck meant it. i have, in the month the book has been officially out, seen the players on the web and at the LGS trying to use fluffy reasons to turn the SW codex into everything ranging from PH Legions to Deathwatch Marines to Deathwing and Black Legion CHaos Marines...so i am really getting bummed at every player apparently wanting to use the Wolves as everything but Space Wolves and justifying it with a paragraph of fluff. Â WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2166700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 G'day chaps, Â Dear Wolf Lord Kieran, Â I was wondering why you are frustrated by people wanting to use C:SW as their army list? If they are power gamers isn't that a tick for C:SW potential and if they are not pg then what is the big deal? Why is it okay for dedicated Wolf players to have access to a power list and not others - because they paint their guys in grey? Why is okay only for dedicated Wolf players to use the latest army - because they paint their guys in grey? Â If he models & paints them ph TS then there won't be any pieces to be picked up. Â I remember DA players frustration (in part because C:DA is sub-par) at SW having potential access to a Terminator army when it was "theirs". It seemed like they felt they deserved to be special, just because they played DA. Â You are free to your opinion (and certainly don't need my permission to it) but I don't understand it. Â Every new Codex has fresh enthusiasm for it, whether it is band-wagoners or people wanting to use it for "counts as". It'll happen again when C:BA comes out too. Especially as GW has opened up the PH can of worms without an outlet for it. I think it is something each new Codex's Chapter gets to grin and bear. Â That is my opinion on it. :tu: Â Eaters of Worlds: ph WE use C:BA and he comes up with fluff to use a Captain that "counts as" Dante. Â Rune Priest Ridcully you can check out BoLs and Tempus forums for their take on ph stuff and have excellent pdfs. Great Crusade has great miniatures ideas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2166743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 :tu: :)  Once more astounded at duality of this forum as it is at once both welcomeing and abrasive at the same time.  I can see how it's tough finding a fit for a lot of armies which don't have thier own specific lists and the desire to build something which would fit the perception which you've got for your army. One thing I'd ask is if the list is to be used for friendly or competative gaming? If you're looking for a fluffy list for pre-heresy then you could go for the Tempus Fugitives one or the Bell of Lost Souls one depending upon how you saw your list progressing. If it's more competative play then using the wolf list is a viable option, lthough as you can see, there wil always be those who will be unhappy with your choices.  oh yeah and...burn heratic ;)  ~O  Edit : @Wilhelm  lols...same thoughts on the BoLS and Tempus lists.....I guess you got there first as I went looking for the links ;)  ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2166752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Oldenhaller  Edit : @Wilhelm lols...same thoughts on the BoLS and Tempus lists.....I guess you got there first as I went looking for the links  SNAP!  Jinx times infinity! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2166757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 dang and blast it!! Â ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182710-pre-heresy-thousand-sons/#findComment-2166761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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