Pre Heresy Thousand Sons?

[Wildfire]

I've always thought it wierd that both in the last 'dex and this one, the least psychic legion has better psykers any other chapter. And the one with supposedly the best psykers is one of the worst! GW is strange some times.

[Sven Bloodskull]

Personally, im not against using codexes for pre-heresy stuff. but this.....

 

Here is the thing, first of all, the special rules of the codex dont fit the fluff. thousand sons never had counter attack and accute senses. the only thing that would make it thousand sons like is their ability to take 4 psyker's, but what i think you are forgetting is that not all the thousand sons where psykers.

 

Personally, if you want to make a pre-heresy thousand sons army, id take the C:SM codex. Take 2 libririans with the deep strike powers and each in a unit stern guard. Fill the rest ith what seems fluffy, drop pods and land speeders where used in the pre-horus heresy time. That, and the run the f away when you can take an ld test just seems also to fit pre-heresy thousand sons. And don't gimme the crap about them being to modern, if something doesn't fit the fluff, don't take it.

 

I hope this helps,

 

Sven Bloodskull

[Baragash]

Here is the thing, first of all, the special rules of the codex dont fit the fluff. thousand sons never had counter attack and accute senses.

 

Both easily explained by psychic abilities.

[Sven Bloodskull]

Here is the thing, first of all, the special rules of the codex dont fit the fluff. thousand sons never had counter attack and accute senses.

 

Both easily explained by psychic abilities.

 

Like i said, they never had the special rules... ever. If in the entire history of wh40k they never had the rules even though they have super psychic powers, i dont see them having it now. But, yes, you could explain it that way. Would be lame imho.

 

Sven Bloodskull

[LoneSniperSG]

Here is the thing, first of all, the special rules of the codex dont fit the fluff. thousand sons never had counter attack and accute senses.

 

Both easily explained by psychic abilities.

 

Like i said, they never had the special rules... ever. If in the entire history of wh40k they never had the rules even though they have super psychic powers, i dont see them having it now. But, yes, you could explain it that way. Would be lame imho.

 

Sven Bloodskull

 

Ugh.. you guys are using the stupid things to bash the good things! Stop it, before I bring out a Predator counting as a Baneblade.

 

Bloodskull, pay attention here.

 

How do you know what special rues they do or do not have? The Thousand sons don't have an in-depth codex, much less an entry like our Codex is.

 

I say let him do it. Unlike some of the gruff, stone-cold people I've been seeing responding to threads like these, I'm curious and anxious to see what people can think of using our new codex for.

[RedMoon]

well let me add in my 2 cents here. first you can use what ever codex you want to represent whatever you really want. that being said the new wolves just dont fit pre heresy era thousand sons. i think the hands down best codex for anything preherasy is the chaos codex i have a pre herasy blood angel army and i use the chaos codex. as long as you dont use daemons, princes, oblits, and defilers you are perfect. legions had larger squad sizes then just 10 most of the time, and you can do that in the chaos dex. second they dont have alot of the things that marines now have that they didnt have back then. land speeders were around yes but very rare. multi meltas and plasma cannons were very rare as man portable systems but were mounted on vehicles. you can run squads of chaos marines with the mark of tzeench to represent the sorcerors of the legion putting portents of safety on there brethren.....the only reason sorcerers lead squads now is the rubric marines will not function without one..thus rules wise they only move d6 a turn not 2 pick the highest. you dont have access to new things like redeemers and crusaders. wolves do give you the option to take 4 psychers they were rare even in the thousand sons.....yes they had a higher number then most but the rules now makes it seem like the whole legion was a psycher and that just wasnt so. the thousand sons weren't known for there great ferocity of assaults so counter charge and blood claws wouldn't make since......

 

 

the only thing that people seem to think is that cause they can take 4 psychers and have 2 special weapons in the squads wolves are great. however the chaos codex lets you take 2 as well....and there cheeper......ATSKNF just dosnt fit they dont worship the Emperor how ever the argument remains they were brave so thus they have LD 10!!!!! seems very brave to me lol. and you can take 2 sorcerers with marks of tzeench which give you a better invul then any runpriest minus njal would ever have, and they can cast 2 powers a turn as well for cheeper.

well im off my soap box now lol just my 2 cents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S and as a side as a wolf it completely offends me LMAO!!!!!!!! :)

[Byrne]

I just hate count as.... oh my Khorne is actually Imperial guard, this piss poor model is a greater deamon of khorne.

 

Get real, use the real codex, use the right colors... Shame on you!!!

[WolfLordLars]

Kieran, down boy! ;)

 

With the intent of having a psyker oriented army, doing a mixed SW/GK list to represent 1kSons doesnt sound too bad. I dont think its 'new codex envy' at all. Some lists just work better at representing certain armies than others. Right now, there are no real lists that would represent pre-heresy armies that well, so the fact that the SW dex seems to lend itself to 1kSons.. great!

 

As long as you dont throw in any female marines, its all good. :P

[Marshal Wilhelm]

As an aside, how do > 10 Tactical/shooty squads work?

 

Crusader or BC > 10 I get. I think it is pronounced "steamroller".

 

Has anyone had experience with them?

[Sven Bloodskull]

Bloodskull, pay attention here.

 

Ahem... i AM paying attention.

 

How do you know what special rues they do or do not have? The Thousand sons don't have an in-depth codex, much less an entry like our Codex is.

 

True, although they did have a few pages worth of stuff in the last C:SM codex. That, and no fluff i know supports those rules.

 

Here's the thing, i don't mind count-as chapters/legions. Hell, i would think a pre-heresy thousand sons legion would be awesome, BUT i think the codex your using would have to fit the fluff. Thousand sons acording to fluff used bolter fire and their psychic powers to cut their fows down. They did not go "owh, youre chargin me? well, screw you, im chargin you to!". I would find it more likely that they either fled to a better position, or used their psychic powers to get them the f out. Which imho fits the C:SM codex better. Neither did all of their brethren have psychic powers, so that kinda dismisses the acute senses rule.

 

It has nothing to do with being stubborn etc. (well, maybe a little, im a wolf afterall :)), i just dont see wolves as thousand sons ruleswise. But, if you think the wolves do fit better, use them. Just dont expect me to say wow, cool idea for an army.

 

Sven Bloodskull

[LoneSniperSG]

Bloodskull, pay attention here.

 

Ahem... i AM paying attention.

 

How do you know what special rues they do or do not have? The Thousand sons don't have an in-depth codex, much less an entry like our Codex is.

 

True, although they did have a few pages worth of stuff in the last C:SM codex. That, and no fluff i know supports those rules.

 

Here's the thing, i don't mind count-as chapters/legions. Hell, i would think a pre-heresy thousand sons legion would be awesome, BUT i think the codex your using would have to fit the fluff. Thousand sons acording to fluff used bolter fire and their psychic powers to cut their fows down. They did not go "owh, youre chargin me? well, screw you, im chargin you to!". I would find it more likely that they either fled to a better position, or used their psychic powers to get them the f out. Which imho fits the C:SM codex better. Neither did all of their brethren have psychic powers, so that kinda dismisses the acute senses rule.

 

It has nothing to do with being stubborn etc. (well, maybe a little, im a wolf afterall :)), i just dont see wolves as thousand sons ruleswise. But, if you think the wolves do fit better, use them. Just dont expect me to say wow, cool idea for an army.

 

Sven Bloodskull

 

... Wow. Okay. I see the problem now. Those of us who have been using our rules a certain way seem to think there's no other way of using them.

 

All he has to do to represent his tac squads is take a bunch of Grey Hunters. Seriously. All he needs are GH's with bolters and one special weapon. Boom. Tactical squad. You assume he would inaccurately take Blood Claws or some wolf riders, for reasons unknown to me.

 

I still also do not agree with the Chaos SM codex. Specifically because it's nowhere near as good as our codex is.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@ Marshal Wilhelm:

I call PG on people that use the new shiny list (which we currently are) for whatever list they want to run and ignore the background of the list. That is the difference players who play Space Wolves and people that power game. the Space Wolf players will still be here once the next shiny list comes out, the gamers will migrate to whatever new codex best fits their idea. I am very tired of people who wouldnt look twice at the old Wolves pamphlet running for the Wolves book, cause i know it wont last, but while it does last they are going to break every thing they can. and when they leave i get stuck playing the "broken" codex...so yea, very sick of the bandwagoners.

and he can paint/model Wolf models any color, a 3 hour dip in Simple Green fixes that. trust me, i have redone so many models its astounding.

 

 

@Wolf Lord Lars:

Are we really suprised at my reaction? :lol:

 

WLK

[LoneSniperSG]

@ Marshal Wilhelm:

I call PG on people that use the new shiny list (which we currently are) for whatever list they want to run and ignore the background of the list. That is the difference players who play Space Wolves and people that power game. the Space Wolf players will still be here once the next shiny list comes out, the gamers will migrate to whatever new codex best fits their idea. I am very tired of people who wouldnt look twice at the old Wolves pamphlet running for the Wolves book, cause i know it wont last, but while it does last they are going to break every thing they can. and when they leave i get stuck playing the "broken" codex...so yea, very sick of the bandwagoners.

and he can paint/model Wolf models any color, a 3 hour dip in Simple Green fixes that. trust me, i have redone so many models its astounding.

 

 

@Wolf Lord Lars:

Are we really suprised at my reaction? :lol:

 

WLK

 

Way to assist in driving away new people..seriously. It's not a ridiculous idea the OP has. Perhaps there are other 'dexes that can do it better, but he wants to try ours.

 

He's also not a bandwagoner. He said he already has a Space Wolves army, so you're pulling the "I don't like bandwagoners" crap for no reason.

[Grey Mage]

I suppose spamming Tactical Squads at full strength with meltaguns and bolters is fluffy then.

 

Or, sacrafice a "generic legion" attribute, to fulfill a very Thousand Sons' bit of fluff via rune priests and marines that are closer to "chaos standard" than vanilla marines.

 

Space Wolf armies do NOT have to be CC heavy at all, and can put up a fairly decent fight from afar, especially with Rune Priests.

 

If you don't see it happening with the SW codex, what codex would better fit a Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons army? Certainly not Chaos, there are very very few options in the army that would support pre-heresy Thousand Sons fluff.... Certainly not the Vanilla Marine codex, far too "modern" and not "legion" enough for a Pre Heresy Thousand Sons army. No more psychicly adept than any other army as well, so that's no fun at all. Certainly not Blood Angels, that sounds more like Pre-Heresy world eaters if anything. Certainly not Dark Angels... for obvious reasons... hah. Black templars? Not by a long shot.

 

 

Wolves are the best bet for applying fluffy rules. Building such an army would go with the expectancy that the army is fluffy, yet still playable, and certain Space Wolf options wouldn't be taken... like Mark of the Wulfen, Thunderwolves, Wolftooth necklace, so on and so forth.

 

Acute senses makes sense, and it's silly that every marine does not have it. Counter-Attack doesn't really make them dominate in close combat, but it allows the Thousand Sons to advance with confidence, whilst their Psykers follow them up. In addition the support for Non-Powerfist weilding terminators, and powerful blades is present aswell, which is in no other codex.

 

 

Being against the idea is like being against anyone using the Space Wolf codex that isn't painting their guys gray or baby blue... or not putting pelts on their marines.

 

Creativity drives the hobby... go for it.

*blinks*

 

No... I think C:SM has it better. Tigurious for a head Sorceror for starters, with a second Libbie for seconds.

 

You dont like the idea of Razorbacks in your army? Or Crusaders, Annihilators or Reedeamors? Dont take them.

 

Counter attack is a powerful CC ability- incredibly so. In fact, for the last couple of years most SW armies were based around it in one way or the other.

 

You get powerful Blades in C:SM- theyre called Relic Blades.

You want no-PF TDA? Fine, take assault terminators- and whered you get the idea that 1ksons didnt have PFs?

 

You can avoid units in the SW army that are good in CC- and youll end up with Tanks and Long Fangs.

[WolfLordLars]

@Wolf Lord Lars:

Are we really suprised at my reaction? ;)

 

WLK

 

Not really.. ;)

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@LonesniperSG: well what is and isnt rediculous is debatable.

and if the opinion of a faceless person over the net is going to drive him away from an idea, he wasnt that dedicated to it in the first place, and he should probbably thank me for saving him time and resources.

 

and while "thanks" for the props in driving people away, you dont have to thank me for it. i did it for me.

 

WLK

[Sven Bloodskull]

... Wow. Okay. I see the problem now. Those of us who have been using our rules a certain way seem to think there's no other way of using them.

 

All he has to do to represent his tac squads is take a bunch of Grey Hunters. Seriously. All he needs are GH's with bolters and one special weapon. Boom. Tactical squad. You assume he would inaccurately take Blood Claws or some wolf riders, for reasons unknown to me.

 

I still also do not agree with the Chaos SM codex. Specifically because it's nowhere near as good as our codex is.

 

Sigh...

 

Seriously, do you even read my posts? where do i mention bc, or even the C:CSM (or do you not realize that with C:SM i mean the codex space marines?)? No, the thing i have issues with is that none of our special rules fit their fluff. It has nothing to do with using a rule in a certain way, fluffwise (which i think should be a big issue for pre-heresy thousand sons army, since the entire army is based on fluff) they just dont abilites like that.

 

So no, i dont think he will use bc and crap like that, i also wouldnt use the c:csm codex, BUT like i've said 3 times before, fluffwise there is no reason why they would have our special rules. That, and i agree with what Grey Mage said.

 

Now, before you answer to this post, please read the damn post, will save alot of headaches for me.

 

Sven Bloodskull

 

p.s. @Grey Mage: Ah, great minds truly think alike :nuke:

[Oldenhaller]

@LonesniperSG: well what is and isnt rediculous is debatable.

and if the opinion of a faceless person over the net is going to drive him away from an idea, he wasnt that dedicated to it in the first place, and he should probbably thank me for saving him time and resources.

 

and while "thanks" for the props in driving people away, you dont have to thank me for it. i did it for me.

 

WLK

 

Just wondering what those who think of it as a risable idea think of beautifully crafted armies which use other rules such as DV8's. They're painted up as wolves, use the wolf fluff but are actually based on the codex marine list which wolves aren't. Is this also just as heinously wrong?

 

~O

[Grey Mage]

@LonesniperSG: well what is and isnt rediculous is debatable.

and if the opinion of a faceless person over the net is going to drive him away from an idea, he wasnt that dedicated to it in the first place, and he should probbably thank me for saving him time and resources.

 

and while "thanks" for the props in driving people away, you dont have to thank me for it. i did it for me.

 

WLK

 

Just wondering what those who think of it as a risable idea think of beautifully crafted armies which use other rules such as DV8's. They're painted up as wolves, use the wolf fluff but are actually based on the codex marine list which wolves aren't. Is this also just as heinously wrong?

 

~O

I find it confusing, and Ive said as much in DV8s thread... but its his army. It is beautifully painted, and he thought it out pretty well.

 

And if this guy does that kind of forethought, and that kind of effort, into this PH 1ksons I think hell be good- and I think if he gives it the Forethought, particularly, hell end up seeing that SWs arent the fit they might seem initially.