heed the wisdom Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 so my friend and i are in a heated arguement.... at work lol .... about special rules characters and being "on the board " so heres the senerio - Vulkan HeStan with his twin linked goodness rule, that all are familar with, is riding in a landraider with some termis .... does he count as on th board... or is he only "on the board" if he is deployed from transport. we are both at work and dont have BRB or codicies in front of us .. please help .. .so i can kill him dead for being wrong ps... pg #'s for ref. would be awesome if anyone had books in front if them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I don't have a page ref for you (lazy :)) but precedent works. Librarians can use their powers from a transport, and Cato can use his leadership from a transport. Chapter Masters can fire their Orbital Bombardment from a transport. Yeah, he is on the table. But the crutch doesn't have to be on the table in any case for the twin linking. As long as he is in the army. RoV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2161402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heed the wisdom Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 I don't have a page ref for you (lazy ) but precedent works. Librarians can use their powers from a transport, and Cato can use his leadership from a transport. Chapter Masters can fire their Orbital Bombardment from a transport. Yeah, he is on the table. But the crutch doesn't have to be on the table in any case for the twin linking. As long as he is in the army. RoV ouch ... my crutch well anyways that clears that up ... another thing with the crutch is when he dies .. i lose the twin link correct Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2161462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 No. When Vulkan dies, his chapter tactics remains. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2161465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Nope, him dying doesn't mean they all suddenly have to downgrade their weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2161466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Vulkans ability requires him to be in your army, and even dead, he is in your army. (examples are chapter tactics and rules such as master of the armory) An on the board ability works so long as the character is not in reserves or a causulty (for example calgars bit were you can chose to pass or fail moral checks) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2161487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 As soon as he become part of your army (when you make your list) your units with combat tactics now lose it, and all the mentioned weapons become twin-linked. This basically happens as soon as you throw him on your army list and decide to use his buff instead of combat tactics. Doesn't matter whether he's on the board, in reserve, alive, or dead. He replaces the rules prior the game technically even starting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2161509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heed the wisdom Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 can someone help me out with some rulebook ref. because i want to have all my info before i start this war with my gaming buddys..... they all have a hard time beating my tourny list as it is .... and they seem to think the key to winning is killing hestan ... and i have been deticating alot of pts to keeping him protected Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2161522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Just point out He'stans page and point out the combat tactics page. Point out that it says "you lose combat tactics. Instead, all your blahblahblah become twin-linked blahblahblah." Point out that you are purposefully giving up your army special rule for a different army special rule and that nowhere in the rulebook does it say that he has to be on the table or alive. It simply says "instead, all your....." The character supplies the rule change initially, but he isn't the source of the in-game change directly. It's pretty clear and concise I would think, there are no limitations around whether he is dead or not, killing Vulkan is a good move because you will be out a fairly tough character and a lot of points t that point but it's not going to change how your army functions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2161555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Narthecium has it. By fielding Vulkan you are losing your normal Chapter Tactics for the one specified on Vulkan's page [93]. Once you have it that's it and it isn't taken away. It's pretty much the same for any special characters' Chapter Tactics option – the only criteria being they must merely be included your army at the outset for this change to take place. As such "on the board" has nothing to do with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2161919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 To further confirm this, look at how Sicarius is described; his Rites of Battle only work whilst he is on the table. The precedent is that if the twin linking was dependant on Vulcan's presence on the table, it would say so. :unsure: RoV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2161929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I posed this same exact question to the board some months back when the SM codex was first released (the newest one) because I had a tyranid player and an eldar player both furious at me during a 2v2 game that I insisted that it didn't disappear when Vulkan died. it was easy to see how they'd get confused however because the tyranid guy loses his synapse ability if his critter dies, and the eldar autarchs boosts to their squads also are removed when they die. So they're not used to seeing something that doesn't require the character to be on the board, and they just figure it's like their characters (which it's not). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2162001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolf_nr Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 From a fluff-rules hybrid standpoint, it isn't so much that Vulkan's mere presence makes everyone more powerful, it is that they are (supposedly) all Salamanders who would have those bonuses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2165987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I posed this same exact question to the board some months back when the SM codex was first released (the newest one) because I had a tyranid player and an eldar player both furious at me during a 2v2 game that I insisted that it didn't disappear when Vulkan died. it was easy to see how they'd get confused however because the tyranid guy loses his synapse ability if his critter dies, and the eldar autarchs boosts to their squads also are removed when they die. So they're not used to seeing something that doesn't require the character to be on the board, and they just figure it's like their characters (which it's not). I actually started a thread here on OR about this a year ago. The end result was this: You purchase Vulkan or Pedro or whomever as part of your army. The Chapter Tactics switch occurs. They die- there is no mechanic for undoing their Chapter Tactics. Thus.... the Tactics Remain. For people who arent willing to accept the reasoning of "included in your army" being a permanent thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2166001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 From a fluff-rules hybrid standpoint, it isn't so much that Vulkan's mere presence makes everyone more powerful, it is that they are (supposedly) all Salamanders who would have those bonuses. Or that he's lending his expertise in mechanical stuff to improve upon all the related weaponry before going to war with them. Either one works just dandy, I suppose depending on whether you're actually running sallies or not lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182712-on-the-board/#findComment-2166122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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