Where to go from here

[Hear da Lamentation]

Afternoon Folks.

 

I'm a relatively new player and am in need of some advice. I have a small force of SWs and would like to expand it a little at a time. At the moment I have the following.

 

10 x "troops" - either GH or BWs

10 x "troops" - either GH or BWs

5 termies

5 scouts

1 deadnought

1 rhino

 

With this I have made some OK (imo) 750 point armies, but am looking to expand to 1000.

Mainly I play against hoarde armies or the eldar.

 

I like vehicles and armour, but I also like having figures and troops on the ground.

 

What I wanted to know is ... what should be, say, my next 2 buys (probably looking at approx £40 mark).

 

I have been thinking about a rhino (pretty basic choice), and possibly a predator / vindicator / whirlwind - but I am also intrigued by the bikers. With what I have, I am clearly missing some faster troops - particularly against the Eldar.

 

Really looking forward to hearing your views,

[Smadders]

Swiftclaw Bikers are absolutely awesome and great fun to play with. In my experience they need a character with them, you need to rapidfire those twinlinked bolters before you charge, it's carnage!

 

The whirlwind is an excellent choice against hordes and eldar but I normally field 2.

 

Depending on your play style a drop pod for your dreadnought would be great but I appreciate that that doesn't really help expand your army in a points sense.

 

Also depending on what direction you want this force to go a Landraider is never a bad choice... :D

 

But overall I would say just buy what you think would be fun and supports the way you want to use this army in battles.

[Grimfoe]

you have to figure out what direction you want to build in. Do you want an in your face CC oriented army? Would you rather have a drop pod army that can bring horrendous amounts of fire power quickly and then still beat the remnants of your opponents army in CC?

 

Space wolves can be devastating in either direction. You can pack in small elite units that are very expensive, or you can max out your GH squads, with 2 plasma guns in drop pods. We can deliver an inordinate amount of fire power very inexpensively.

 

Let us know what direction you're heading.

[maznaz]

More hunters in a rhino.

[Arcus]

edited for wrong thread

:)

[Hear da Lamentation]

Thanks for the advice folks.

 

Would you say you should go down one route or the other? Rather than mixing them?

 

I guess what I would go for (if it is viable) would be the following..

 

2 units of GH (rhino's)

1 unit of WG elites - hard as nails in combat and able to at least compete with a hoard

1 unit long fangs

1 unit of fast attack ... bikers sound great

1 unit of tank back-up (whirwind, pred or dev)

 

Thing with this, I realise, is that there is a lot of "1 unit" in this list. Not much in the way of redundancy. I also guess the WG elites could easily get left behind ....

 

This would mean me buying a 1 x rhino, 1 x pred etc. and 1 biker squad. Are 3 bikers enough? I guess I would need an HQ as well on a bike??

[Grimfoe]

With that list I might advise you to go with drop pods instead of rhinos. The GH's and LF's could both go in a pod. This would insure that 2 pods landed 1st turn. If you put Logan in a pod with your LF's, they can disembark and fire on turn 1. The Grey Hunters can also disembark and double fire if within 12". That's 16 bolter shots and 4 plasma gun shots when they come down. With counter attack, they still get 3 attacks each when charged.

 

Your back up could be a tank or another unit of Fangs on foot. The LF's die slower than a tank if across the board.

 

just some ideas....

[Toasterfree]

id also look at my tactica guide to help you decide Just another helpful plug

[Valerian]

id also look at my tactica guide to help you decide Just another helpful plug

 

If Toaster is going to plug his work, then I'll go ahead and plug mine as well: Guide to Army Building

 

Valerian

[Toasterfree]

looks like they will work hand in hand actually

[Grey Mage]

Afternoon Folks.

 

I'm a relatively new player and am in need of some advice. I have a small force of SWs and would like to expand it a little at a time. At the moment I have the following.

 

10 x "troops" - either GH or BWs

10 x "troops" - either GH or BWs

5 termies

5 scouts

1 deadnought

1 rhino

 

With this I have made some OK (imo) 750 point armies, but am looking to expand to 1000.

Mainly I play against hoarde armies or the eldar.

 

I like vehicles and armour, but I also like having figures and troops on the ground.

 

What I wanted to know is ... what should be, say, my next 2 buys (probably looking at approx £40 mark).

 

I have been thinking about a rhino (pretty basic choice), and possibly a predator / vindicator / whirlwind - but I am also intrigued by the bikers. With what I have, I am clearly missing some faster troops - particularly against the Eldar.

 

Really looking forward to hearing your views,

I would say what you need, particularly against Eldar is a Whirlwind and a Rune Priest model.

 

Bikers however are a cool idea in general. For £40 you could get a whirlwind and the Ravenwing squad box... wich would give you three bikes, a minimum swiftclaw squad.

 

Whirlwinds are wonderful- ever face pathfinders? Or need to get rid of Gaurdians with Conceal, or in cover? Trust me, I also play eldar and the Whirlwind is the bane of my existance. Its also dirt cheap.

 

Swiftclaws are nice, but with headstrong I cant help but feel they need a WG or an HQ to really get the most out of them. Still, not a bad idea at all.

 

I might also reccommend that if your seeing Waveserpents and Falcons that a Landspeeder with multimelta is a good idea. Or a Typhoon... missile launchers are nice, and against waveserpents theyre about the best anti tank weapon youll find.

 

Now, in general I would say what you really should have to help your force is a Long Fang squad, ala the Devastator Box, and a Whirlwind- to give yourself some nice Long Range punch with lascannons and missile launchers and the whirlwind doing template duty.

 

Note: The whirlwind is also a rhino in every respect- dont glue down the top hatch and you can have it as a second rhino OR a whirlwind as you see fit. No magnets, no fuss, no muss.

[kittenofdeath]

Thanks for the advice folks.

 

Would you say you should go down one route or the other? Rather than mixing them?

 

I guess what I would go for (if it is viable) would be the following..

 

2 units of GH (rhino's)

1 unit of WG elites - hard as nails in combat and able to at least compete with a hoard

1 unit long fangs

1 unit of fast attack ... bikers sound great

1 unit of tank back-up (whirwind, pred or dev)

 

Thing with this, I realise, is that there is a lot of "1 unit" in this list. Not much in the way of redundancy. I also guess the WG elites could easily get left behind ....

 

This would mean me buying a 1 x rhino, 1 x pred etc. and 1 biker squad. Are 3 bikers enough? I guess I would need an HQ as well on a bike??

 

if your going to take swift claw bikers (who are awesome by the way, twin linked bolters help blood claws big time) you might want to make an IC on bike rather than a pack leader, wolf guard bikers can get pricey, they're good, but not that good, an IC on bike (posibly the likes of a rune priest for psychic defense/offence, two birds with one stone as they say) is better every time. also, on the subject of bikes, if you take an attack bike, leave it as a heavy bolter, noone likes bs3 multi meltas.

 

as for how you said you lacked redundancy, your grey hunters are the redundancy, your grey hunters should be your back up plan, theres no situation they cant handle if used properly, if they target your long fangs, use the time to advance on them with a GH pack, either they'll switch targets to the GH's who can take it, or let the grey hunters close in for the kill

 

and Grey mages note on the wirlwind is true for all the rhino based box sets, there is never a real reason to by a normal rhino when a few dollars more will get you the likes of a whirlwind or predator

[Hear da Lamentation]

First off ..... FANTASTIC advice all round folks ... really appreciate it.

 

and Grey mages note on the wirlwind is true for all the rhino based box sets, there is never a real reason to by a normal rhino when a few dollars more will get you the likes of a whirlwind or predator

 

From both of you - this is SUCH a good point, and one I should have considered. I SOOO nearly bought another rhino. Nice one.

 

As for Rune Priests with the Eldar - I had one recently and the Eldar guy had some rune (sorry, don't know the name) which gave him unlimited range "every other psyker has to roll 3 dice instead of 2. This effectively made it a 50:50 chance every time I used an ability of losing a wound. NOT nice.) To be fair, this would severely put me off using them again against the Eldar. Is there something I am missing? (the rune weapon negating psychic abilities was nice though.)

 

I have been using the Scouts as proxy for Long Fangs, which I LOVED. Last time I played I had a squad of 6, 1 leader and 5 with missile launchers. They were great against troops, but had difficulty against jetbikes and their "re-roll cover save."

 

I was also facing a fire prism ... which was nasty. 60" range with some very high str.

 

One thing I missed in the list below, which I would like to use (because it looks so great) is the Dreadnought. I guess for 1000 points though (which is what I am aiming at) I can't have it all. The WG unit is pretty expensive (once you have given them Termi armour and a few weapons). Is it worth it at this level?

 

I'll check out those guides you linked and get back to you.

 

Thanks again for the help. I really feel like I am getting somewhere now .... (not quite sure where though :) )

[Hear da Lamentation]

OK I have just been reading up on the Whirlwind - and I am clearly missing something. It has 2 shot options, one with Str4 (ignoring cover saves) and one with Str5. Large blast. With an ordnance weapon you get to roll 2d6 for penetration and choose the highest.

 

This only seems (to me) to be any good against troops. With such a low Str you will be having to roll a 6 to hit any decent armour. So is this what it is used for - troop killing? Whereas the Vindicator's 10Str is going to be great for tank killing.

 

I think my issue here is probably a misapprehension that I want to be killing my enemy tanks ... with other tanks. I'm now thinking (from reading your excellent posts) that I should be using other troops (Long Fangs or Scouts - with meltaguns and meltabombs) to do the tank killing - and let the tanks go for more squishy foes. Is this right?

 

Also - on one of the posts I have just read, there as talk about a thunderhammer being able to stun vehicle crew (if it fails to destroy them.) Is this right? If so - what happens ... do they count as "stunned" - or do they just get to go last in the round ... which negates any chance of shooting?? (this is an interesting one which I missed.) <EDIT> read the rules on this one and now know they suffer a stunned result.

[Rokafort Stonewolf]

Space Wolf tanks are good against infantry and light vehicles more than tanks, with the exception of the Land Raider and to some extent the Vindicator. The Vindicator's demolisher cannon is the anti-everything weapon, but it's actually less effective against light infantry in cover than a whirlwind is. :lol:

 

Also, yes, thunder hammers stop vehicles from shooting.

[Grey Mage]

OK I have just been reading up on the Whirlwind - and I am clearly missing something. It has 2 shot options, one with Str4 (ignoring cover saves) and one with Str5. Large blast. With an ordnance weapon you get to roll 2d6 for penetration and choose the highest.

 

This only seems (to me) to be any good against troops. With such a low Str you will be having to roll a 6 to hit any decent armour. So is this what it is used for - troop killing? Whereas the Vindicator's 10Str is going to be great for tank killing.

 

I think my issue here is probably a misapprehension that I want to be killing my enemy tanks ... with other tanks. I'm now thinking (from reading your excellent posts) that I should be using other troops (Long Fangs or Scouts - with meltaguns and meltabombs) to do the tank killing - and let the tanks go for more squishy foes. Is this right?

 

Also - on one of the posts I have just read, there as talk about a thunderhammer being able to stun vehicle crew (if it fails to destroy them.) Is this right? If so - what happens ... do they count as "stunned" - or do they just get to go last in the round ... which negates any chance of shooting?? (this is an interesting one which I missed.) <EDIT> read the rules on this one and now know they suffer a stunned result.

The Whirlwind is specificly an anti-infantry weapon... and youll note it has a very, very long range for a SW vehicle. Need dead pathfinders? Check- dead on a 3+ to wound. Need dead firewarriors? You outrange them, wound on 2+ and kill outright if not in cover.

 

Note, as ordnance barrage its also a pinning weapon- so after you wipe out half the squad they have to see if they can even do anything from the shell shock.

 

Long fangs are the flexable kill it dead, or kill it twice unit. And now, for the first time in a decade- theyre dirt cheap.

[Warhorse47]

Okay, you have had a lot of great advice. Realize that you either have to get more bodies on the ground to survive foot slogging, or get more transport for your existing troops. So either add another pack of GH/BCs or a rhino/raider to deliver them. We all deal with budget constraints so I sympathize. The biker option gives your opponent a hard decision ano what to attack so that can help with your GH surviving. Good luck on your choice.

[kittenofdeath]

First off ..... FANTASTIC advice all round folks ... really appreciate it.

 

and Grey mages note on the wirlwind is true for all the rhino based box sets, there is never a real reason to by a normal rhino when a few dollars more will get you the likes of a whirlwind or predator

 

From both of you - this is SUCH a good point, and one I should have considered. I SOOO nearly bought another rhino. Nice one.

 

As for Rune Priests with the Eldar - I had one recently and the Eldar guy had some rune (sorry, don't know the name) which gave him unlimited range "every other psyker has to roll 3 dice instead of 2. This effectively made it a 50:50 chance every time I used an ability of losing a wound. NOT nice.) To be fair, this would severely put me off using them again against the Eldar. Is there something I am missing? (the rune weapon negating psychic abilities was nice though.)

 

I have been using the Scouts as proxy for Long Fangs, which I LOVED. Last time I played I had a squad of 6, 1 leader and 5 with missile launchers. They were great against troops, but had difficulty against jetbikes and their "re-roll cover save."

 

I was also facing a fire prism ... which was nasty. 60" range with some very high str.

 

One thing I missed in the list below, which I would like to use (because it looks so great) is the Dreadnought. I guess for 1000 points though (which is what I am aiming at) I can't have it all. The WG unit is pretty expensive (once you have given them Termi armour and a few weapons). Is it worth it at this level?

 

I'll check out those guides you linked and get back to you.

 

Thanks again for the help. I really feel like I am getting somewhere now .... (not quite sure where though :devil: )

 

you welcome

 

as for long fangs, try out a few diffrent weapon sets, missile launchers are good all rounders, but for dedicated roles (tank hunting, killing heavy infantry) the other weapons out shine the launcher

 

the runes of whatever (warding i think) are annoying, but not as bad as it sounds, and the runic weapon is one of the best psychic defenses in the game

 

OK I have just been reading up on the Whirlwind - and I am clearly missing something. It has 2 shot options, one with Str4 (ignoring cover saves) and one with Str5. Large blast. With an ordnance weapon you get to roll 2d6 for penetration and choose the highest.

 

This only seems (to me) to be any good against troops. With such a low Str you will be having to roll a 6 to hit any decent armour. So is this what it is used for - troop killing? Whereas the Vindicator's 10Str is going to be great for tank killing.

 

I think my issue here is probably a misapprehension that I want to be killing my enemy tanks ... with other tanks. I'm now thinking (from reading your excellent posts) that I should be using other troops (Long Fangs or Scouts - with meltaguns and meltabombs) to do the tank killing - and let the tanks go for more squishy foes. Is this right?

 

Also - on one of the posts I have just read, there as talk about a thunderhammer being able to stun vehicle crew (if it fails to destroy them.) Is this right? If so - what happens ... do they count as "stunned" - or do they just get to go last in the round ... which negates any chance of shooting?? (this is an interesting one which I missed.) <EDIT> read the rules on this one and now know they suffer a stunned result.

 

another advantage of the wirlwind is it doesnt need line of sight, park it so the enemy cant see and blast away at troops, but for tanks, there are a few options other than using troops to take them out, dreadnaughts, lascannon preadators, land raiders, if you get close enough the vindicator is lethal, at the worst it has a 50/50 chance of doing something even to av 14

 

Space Wolf tanks are good against infantry and light vehicles more than tanks, with the exception of the Land Raider and to some extent the Vindicator. The Vindicator's demolisher cannon is the anti-everything weapon, but it's actually less effective against light infantry in cover than a whirlwind is. :(

 

Also, yes, thunder hammers stop vehicles from shooting.

 

the vindicator is something that can mess up anything, absolutely anything, sadly, the enemy knows that, so some times its a 115 point fire magnet if it doesnt survive long enough to get in close