LoneSniperSG Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I started thinking about my last game back in March. How I was so horribly frustrated with my friend and his stupid Avatar of Khaine, easily the one unit who wiped out more of my army than anything else on the board. Since then I've been seeking something that can smack Khaine down. So then I read about Lukas the Trickster. I know it would be a horrible waste of points, but I believe it's justified to knock out an MC with such a stupid ability as Wailing Doom (Melta blast with no saves possible). Could I rig up a suiicide squad of Blood Claws and Lukas and use them solely to wipe out the big nasties such as the Avatar with Lukas' deceptive Stasis Bomb? I know many of you are going to sit there and shake your heads, but when you see your WGBL biker wiped out with zero chance, you get kind of peeved at the unit responsible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Umm... Avatars of Khaine only ignore regular armor saves, and only because they are monstrous creatures. The Wailing doom is only a ranged weapon... and its just a Meltagun. A Lone Wolf with TH+SS could go toe to toe with an avatar and do well... a WGBL with WTN and a TH+SS should take him down most of the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneSniperSG Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 Umm... Avatars of Khaine only ignore regular armor saves, and only because they are monstrous creatures. The Wailing doom is only a ranged weapon... and its just a Meltagun. A Lone Wolf with TH+SS could go toe to toe with an avatar and do well... a WGBL with WTN and a TH+SS should take him down most of the time. Think old codex, man. I sent a Wolf Lord and a squad of Blood Claws right at him and they only landed one wound. Even so, how many marines does that mean the Avatar can wipe out? Lots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse47 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Use Lukas for just that reason. Why else did they give him a plasma? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneSniperSG Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 I'm actually being serious. That Stasis Bomb is a very valuable asset. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I'm actually being serious. That Stasis Bomb is a very valuable asset. I agree, I just dont think that a WL and BCs would have problems taking down an Avatar. I would say actually youd be better of using Lukas against Prince Yriel and a squad or Wraithgaurd+ Farseer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 4 Blood Claws + Lukas = 215pts 10 Wolf Scouts w/ Sniper Rifles = 180pts Blood Claws are footslogging, unless you pay even more points to give them a transport, even so, there's a good chance they'll be whittled down before they even get to Mr. Avatar. Not really reliable, I know if I used him to try to take down something big..I'd roll a 1 every time. Scouts can infiltrate to get them at the best firing position. The only thing I can really see the Blood Claws + Lukas having over the scouts is they don't use an elite choice. I think Lukas is more of an amusement character, for both the player and some opponents. Would probably laugh my arse off if I saw him sniped by a vindicare while he was running along and accidentally froze some of his buddies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneSniperSG Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 I'm actually being serious. That Stasis Bomb is a very valuable asset. I agree, I just dont think that a WL and BCs would have problems taking down an Avatar. They did. I saw it. All the wargear they had didn't make a difference. You have a point about the scouts though. They would probably kill the unholy spawn of crap and continue killing other things. The interesting thing that was said to me about Lukas, was that the clerk I talked to said that he had seen Lukas turn the enemy's battle plan completely on its nose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 If the SW player was stupid enough to put Lukas in B2B contact, you mean? Unit coherency gets around the stasis bomb no questions asked. I love putting Lukas and 9 Claws in a Drop Pod, to be honest. Drop them 1" next to an enemy Land Raider and BOOM. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Hey, it's possible XD Things slip my mind all the time while I play..especially if I'm getting really into it >.> I remember once when I used to play WHFB I was so into getting a unit into combat, that I declared charges and went straight into combat..And for Tomb Kings, skipping both the shooting and magic phases completely really sucks. As for turning a battle on it's nose..Only way I can see that happening is to wipe out an expensive HQ+expensive retinue..but even so, that's no more game-changing than a lucky Vindicator shot. But anyways, for dealing with big nasties I usually prefer taking them down at range, either those scouts or Long Fangs with 5 missiles should take him down in 2 turns with a little luck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I know it would be a horrible waste of points, but I believe it's justified to knock out an MC with such a stupid ability as Wailing Doom (Melta blast with no saves possible). Could I rig up a suiicide squad of Blood Claws and Lukas and use them solely to wipe out the big nasties such as the Avatar with Lukas' deceptive Stasis Bomb? As you said, its kind of a waste of points to try to use this as a strategy. It only works when Lukas actually dies, and then only if you roll equal to or higher than your opponent on a d6. Instead, just think of Lukas as a powerful squad-level upgrade character, who might have a fun in-game side effect if he happens to get killed. Since he is an upgrade character and cannot be singled out in close combat, he should actually be quite resilient, and ought to stay alive for most, if not all, of the game. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 A WL on TWM with 5 x TWC took three full turns (6 Assault Phases) to kill a Fortuned backed Avatar. The Avatar killed 3 TWC in return. That geezer is seriously undercosted! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uthred Ragnarson Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 A WL on TWM with 5 x TWC took three full turns (6 Assault Phases) to kill a Fortuned backed Avatar. The Avatar killed 3 TWC in return. That geezer is seriously undercosted! :) I plan to use Lukas to just scare the hell out of my opponent, his precious seer council won't go anywhere near him Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillen Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I remember bolter the guy to death a few times. he is not all that tough. He has a better toughness, but a wrathlord is just as bad. I will field Lucas to give the squad a Pack Leader basicly. He does ok in kills and if it all goes to crap.....Well he might take a few more with him. Arjac? would spank him. More expensive thou. Still..... We have our on Monsterous creature right there. And he can be junked into a squad as a WGPL. Got to love that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 hmmm I think you've fallen into the trap of becoming afraid of a particular enemy unit. The avatar is just a distraction, its why he's fairly cheap points wise. You exactly what an oponent is going to do with him (march up and whack you) he's generally on his own most of the time (and if not, starts to get very expensive points wise). So essentially is a lone monstrous creature, with not a huge number of wounds. So the answer? Shoot the bugger with what you have available (without overly concentrating on it) and then remember most of your units have counter attack, and you'll be fine. Being afraid of something, makes it seem far more powerful than it actually is. I used to be the same with wolf scouts, tau battle leaders etc. just adapt and cope. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2162929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I remember bolter the guy to death a few times. he is not all that tough. He has a better toughness, but a wrathlord is just as bad. this is my way of doing it. particularly with a longfang pack on the board now. if something is in range of the avatar, and nothing else is.... just shoo it and move along. unless he gets close enough to get into cc he can't really do much (unless you are a tank of course). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2163121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uthred Ragnarson Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 hmmm I think you've fallen into the trap of becoming afraid of a particular enemy unit. The avatar is just a distraction, its why he's fairly cheap points wise. You exactly what an oponent is going to do with him (march up and whack you) he's generally on his own most of the time (and if not, starts to get very expensive points wise). So essentially is a lone monstrous creature, with not a huge number of wounds. So the answer? Shoot the bugger with what you have available (without overly concentrating on it) and then remember most of your units have counter attack, and you'll be fine. Being afraid of something, makes it seem far more powerful than it actually is. I used to be the same with wolf scouts, tau battle leaders etc. just adapt and cope. here here Admittedly I've only faced an Avatar with Tau but he's never managed to do anything he dies very easily Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2163140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 hari kari was the first thought i had about him Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2163163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiplash Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 omg man im having exactly the same problems!! i dont think i have ever killed my mates avatar outside of apocalypse games ;) although the psychic power jaws of the world wolf is very handy ;) i took out a wraithlord out in one with that today!! so there is potential avatar killing there too basically rune priest all round: put him in a squad of something, they may cause a wound (itll probably get saved) then give him saga of the beast slayer ( re roll to hit against monstrous creatures) wolf tooth necklace so he hits on a 3+ (re rolled) he wounds on a 2+ (because the avatar is a demon) and then if he passes a psychic test the avatar is dead then and there!! and even if he fails thats a fair few wounds to save but you are right with lucas the only problem would be forcing the combat, especially if the oponent knows whats coming Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2163551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I have few questions about Lucas: 1) How does that pelt thingy work? 2) If i take Wolf priest in the squad is it still fearless or does that rule Lucas has go past it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2173609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 the pelt only works against attacks directed at lukas, so the pack has to be dead for it to take effect. your opponent then has to reroll all successful hits against him. if they have preferred enemy, or some other rule to allow re-rolls to hit then they roll to hit, reroll any misses and then reroll the successful hits from that. its the only time a model can reroll a reroll (there was a WHFB ability that worked in a similar way and it was faqd to work how i just said, thats where i base my assumption from). the unit with lucas and a wolf priest will be Ld 8 and fearless. you dont gain the leadership bonus from the wolf priest (as lukas says the unit cannot go above ld 8) but still gains fearless as that is not increasing your leadership in anyway. as to the original question, i am really surprised that you are finiding it difficult to kill the avatar, a lord/wgbl with thunder hammer, storm shield and WTN should definately be able to go toe to toe with him. i have no problems dealing with avatars in any of the battles ive played against one. having said that i think lukas is too expensive and unreliable to use purely to kill one model. your relying on the avatar killing him and his squad and then rolling higher than your opponent... take a 5 Heavy Bolter long fang pack and blast away at more pressing targets (seer council for instance) to strip him of his rerolls and then jump him with 2 grey hunter units with power fists in there. that should see him dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/182828-lukas-the-trickster/#findComment-2173663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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