Dawn of War and Scout Moves

[thade]

If you don't deploy a unit that has Scout during deployment, do you get to use it's Scout move after deployment but before the first player's turn one? That is, the unit moves in on the first turn as if it's on the table edge...so my opponent yesterday maintained that you can make scout moves onto the board in this way.

 

It was moderately useful to me as well, as I deployed a tac and a rhino (two troop units), then was able to scout move my Sniper Scouts into a reasonable position so they could fire on the first turn. But I'm not sure it was legit...so here I am.

[greatcrusade08]

Theres nothing in the rules that states scout move can be used to bring in troops from reserve. The scout move is a special move made before the opponents turn, units have to be deployed to use this and since units in reserve arent deployed they cannot make this move.

[Isiah]

Units with Scouts capability can still come on from reserve, in this instance they can then make use of the Outflank special movement [p94 BRB]. As detailed in DoW p93 BRB, units that deploy from the off use their Scout move after deployment/set up but before turn one as per normal.

 

The problem with DoW is that with so few units on the table at the start some units will effectively lose their Scout move. In this instance it's better to keep them in reserve to Outflank. I'm thinking say Ravenwing here who have so many Scout-ability units available. It might not be such an issue with other armies/builds where Scouts ability rarer.

 

Cheers

I

[hisdudeness]

I don't believe you can.

 

Dawn of War rules state: "...as long as at the end of deployment the player still has a maximum of 1 HQ and 2 Troops on the table."

 

Scout USR state: "...once both sides have deployed...,but before first turn,..." scouts can make a scout move.

 

The glitch could be the second to last paragragh in Dawn of War rule box: all units not deployed and not declared as reserves must enter the game in the movement phase. Since they cannot be deployed they are either reserves or moving in the movement phase. If they are reserves they need a reserves roll to enter play. If not deployed or in reserve they must enter play in the movement phase.

[thade]

I don't believe you can.

 

Dawn of War rules state: "...as long as at the end of deployment the player still has a maximum of 1 HQ and 2 Troops on the table."

 

Scout USR state: "...once both sides have deployed...,but before first turn,..." scouts can make a scout move.

 

The glitch could be the second to last paragragh in Dawn of War rule box: all units not deployed and not declared as reserves must enter the game in the movement phase. Since they cannot be deployed they are either reserves or moving in the movement phase. If they are reserves they need a reserves roll to enter play. If not deployed or in reserve they must enter play in the movement phase.

 

Our understanding was that they counted as being "deployed" at the table edge (as they move from the table edge during the first Movement phase). Also, the scout move takes place after Deployment and before the first turn...that is, between them.

 

Isiah: I'm not clear on your response insofar as this particular shenanigan...I understand that you consider Reserves/Outflanking to be superior to moving them in from the table edge first turn...but do you also mean that they can make their scout move pre-first turn off of the table edge as I described?

[greatcrusade08]

The scout rules outflanking rule cannot be combined with DOW reserves to bring on units on table edges.

 

there is nothing to suggest that DOw reserves count as being deployed on the table edge, i dont have the rule book with me right now, but i know it speaks of held in reserve and deployed in the first turn.

 

Since scout moves happen pre-first turn the situation cannot arise.

 

hope this helps

[ShinyRhino]

Nah, the other units beyond the 1 HQ and 2 Troops are not "deployed" at all, hence no Scout move from the table edge. The units that weren't placed ont he table as part of the initial allotment simply move on from your table edge during your first Movement phase. If they were "deployed", you could shoot at them.

DoW defies the normal deployment conventions.

[hisdudeness]

I understand what you are saying about deploying just off the board edge.

 

Problem I have with that is they do not ‘deploy’ there. The book states that they move on just like they do from reserves (just on the first turn with no roll). To me that implies that they use all reserves rules. And although the book states you move on from the table edge as if moved to the edge in the previous turn it does not say they are deployed there.

 

Second problem comes in the MUST part of the paragraph, i.e. if not deployed in reserves or on the table they MUST enter the game in the Movement phase of the players first turn. As the scout unit is not on the table or in reserves, they must move on in the players first movement phase.

 

I was trying to find a way for this to work, but could not find enough gray area in the rules to allow it.

[thade]

"Were they deployed you could shoot at them." I like that counter-argument. =) Anyway, I do agree with you all that this doesn't seem legit. I'll bring it up on my club's website and see if I can bring them in line with it.

 

Thanks, all. =)