Albion de Heaven Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Hi all vets, this morning I was reading a nice article on BellsOfLostsouls about Vindicare Assassins http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/10/40k...e-assassin.html Since it says that you can fire ignoring all fire restrictions is it really possible? you can fire to your own models and do it even if they are in close combact?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTang Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Firing into close combat is solid, as it's explicitly covered in the FAQ. Firing on your own troops is shakier, but possibly justifiable with a broad reading of 'targeting restriction.' I don't know if I buy it, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2165678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 its dubious, as Gtang said firing into combat fine, own troops im unsure but given how it says under various rules that you can't target friends then it seems that saying you can ignore these things means you can shoot your own Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2165688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Yes you may shoot your own models, you may also shoot into CC. WH:codex pg. 32 ""... the Vindicare can target any model in range and LOS, regardless of any targeting restrictions...." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2166437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 agreed - the Vindicare can shoot anyone, at any time. it's not too out of line, comisars kill cadian JO's, why wouldn't an assassin feel free to shoot "friendlies"? if it's for the good of the emperor, they have given their life in service. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2166446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albion de Heaven Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 agreed - the Vindicare can shoot anyone, at any time. it's not too out of line, comisars kill cadian JO's, why wouldn't an assassin feel free to shoot "friendlies"? if it's for the good of the emperor, they have given their life in service. i love this assassin even more :tu: thanx everybody Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2166751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Why would you want to, the only thing i can think of is to deny consolidation moves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2166771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Why would you want to, the only thing i can think of is to deny consolidation moves There is talk in the space wolf forum of getting Lukas into close combat and shooting him with an assassin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2166778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrab Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Why would you want to, the only thing i can think of is to deny consolidation moves I am locked in combat with something big and want to shoot it, but can't instead, i pop my single guy left, and then use huge-las cannons on it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2166857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Situational but potentially very devastating. It just might end up making the Vindicare worth his price tag. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2166871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Situational but potentially very devastating.It just might end up making the Vindicare worth his price tag. thats a big might, a very big might MIGHT even bigger than that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2166900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 There is talk in the space wolf forum of getting Lukas into close combat and shooting him with an assassin. sorry i dont understand.. im not too familiar with Lukas, but surely it would be a waste of a good/expensive IC? Gc08 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2167047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 There is talk in the space wolf forum of getting Lukas into close combat and shooting him with an assassin. sorry i dont understand.. im not too familiar with Lukas, but surely it would be a waste of a good/expensive IC? Gc08 If Lukas dies, all models based with him are removed from play. He's not an IC, so he can't be singled out in combat, and you can only allocate one wound to him at a time. Then he gets his armor save and such, so it's actually tough to kill him and get his Stasis Bomb to work. But if you shoot him with your assassin, he's guaranteed to die and explode, taking whatever he's in base contact with along for the ride. Base Ghaz'gul Thraka or a Hive Tyrant with Lukas, blow him up, and eliminate a huge factor from your opponent's force. I can see opposing players pitching a fit if/when you pull it off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2167056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 There is talk in the space wolf forum of getting Lukas into close combat and shooting him with an assassin. sorry i dont understand.. im not too familiar with Lukas, but surely it would be a waste of a good/expensive IC? Gc08 If Lukas dies, all models based with him are removed from play. He's not an IC, so he can't be singled out in combat, and you can only allocate one wound to him at a time. Then he gets his armor save and such, so it's actually tough to kill him and get his Stasis Bomb to work. But if you shoot him with your assassin, he's guaranteed to die and explode, taking whatever he's in base contact with along for the ride. Base Ghaz'gul Thraka or a Hive Tyrant with Lukas, blow him up, and eliminate a huge factor from your opponent's force. I can see opposing players pitching a fit if/when you pull it off. You still have to win a dice off for lukas's bomb to go off. but yeah I can see the use. But yes, Vindicar are one of the two models in the game that can be used to intentionaly attack into a melee (or your own people) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2167182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMullet Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 can the assassin be used in any imperial army? or do you have to have inquisitor + 2 troops as allies? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2167192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 The rules explaining how to use assassins in other armies are in the inquisitorial codexes. Short answer: Yes, with added limitations. As for shooting Lukas, wouldn't it make more sense to wait and see if he could kill that big, expensive model and then bomb someone else later? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2167203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 As for shooting Lukas, wouldn't it make more sense to wait and see if he could kill that big, expensive model and then bomb someone else later? or just wait for the enemy model to kill him and save the assasin shot for something else, i still fail to see the point of shooting your own IC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2167493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 As for shooting Lukas, wouldn't it make more sense to wait and see if he could kill that big, expensive model and then bomb someone else later? or just wait for the enemy model to kill him and save the assasin shot for something else, i still fail to see the point of shooting your own IC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2167570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM THE AWESOME Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 As for shooting Lukas, wouldn't it make more sense to wait and see if he could kill that big, expensive model and then bomb someone else later? or just wait for the enemy model to kill him and save the assasin shot for something else, i still fail to see the point of shooting your own IC But, he ISN'T an IC. Which means by the time he dies, your squad is munched. Vindicare keeps the squad alive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2167639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I'm sorry but would it not make more sense to allow him to do his wounds first (if he can cause any) rather than just popping him? That seems stupid to me to just kill him before letting him at least take a swing at something. If he's not going to die to what he's fighting than obviously he's going to kill it so I see no reason to just blow him away unless for some reason he's the very last guy against the one model that's contesting the one objective which will give you the win if you can just kill him AND get the bomb off. That seems like pure silliness to not allow him his strikes first, if you're just planning on letting him die anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2167730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Because if Lukas is in CC with a unit that has Hit & Run (like Khan), and both units are likley to survive (say Khan vs 5 regular guys and Lukas) then it makes sense. Note: Khan is just an example off the top of my head. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2167813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I'm sorry but would it not make more sense to allow him to do his wounds first (if he can cause any) rather than just popping him? That seems stupid to me to just kill him before letting him at least take a swing at something. If he's not going to die to what he's fighting than obviously he's going to kill it so I see no reason to just blow him away unless for some reason he's the very last guy against the one model that's contesting the one objective which will give you the win if you can just kill him AND get the bomb off. That seems like pure silliness to not allow him his strikes first, if you're just planning on letting him die anyways. Assault takes place after shooting. In order to have enemies in base to base... they must be in assault. Thus, theyve had ATleast one round of assault to work with and have survived... but that doesnt mean they arent about to get their butts kicked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2167920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredWing Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The one thing I'd have to say is that it seems like a massive points sink for 1 tactic which may or may not work. In addition to lukas' points cost you've got the addition of a minimum of 2 squads of IST's (bare bones of 100pts), an inquisitor lord to satisfy the HQ FOC & unlock the vindicare. That's knocking on for 250pts without any other wargear/upgrades etc, 250pts which i would imagine could be better spent on some other stuff out of the 5th ed friendly C:SW rather than the historical documents we know as C:WH/C:DH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2168057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The one thing I'd have to say is that it seems like a massive points sink for 1 tactic which may or may not work. In addition to lukas' points cost you've got the addition of a minimum of 2 squads of IST's (bare bones of 100pts), an inquisitor lord to satisfy the HQ FOC & unlock the vindicare. That's knocking on for 250pts without any other wargear/upgrades etc, 250pts which i would imagine could be better spent on some other stuff out of the 5th ed friendly C:SW rather than the historical documents we know as C:WH/C:DH. IST's don't have to be included if you're allying the WH/DH into another list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2168069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredWing Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The one thing I'd have to say is that it seems like a massive points sink for 1 tactic which may or may not work. In addition to lukas' points cost you've got the addition of a minimum of 2 squads of IST's (bare bones of 100pts), an inquisitor lord to satisfy the HQ FOC & unlock the vindicare. That's knocking on for 250pts without any other wargear/upgrades etc, 250pts which i would imagine could be better spent on some other stuff out of the 5th ed friendly C:SW rather than the historical documents we know as C:WH/C:DH. IST's don't have to be included if you're allying the WH/DH into another list. Really? Not being one that uses allies I'm none too familiar with those rules so I'll take your word for it. I thought you had to have a minimum of 1 HQ and 2 troop choices to satisfy the allying FOC? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183071-assassin-vindicare-is-it-really-possible/#findComment-2168160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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