[Assassin - Vindicare] - is it really possible?

[JamesI]

The one thing I'd have to say is that it seems like a massive points sink for 1 tactic which may or may not work.

 

In addition to lukas' points cost you've got the addition of a minimum of 2 squads of IST's (bare bones of 100pts), an inquisitor lord to satisfy the HQ FOC & unlock the vindicare. That's knocking on for 250pts without any other wargear/upgrades etc, 250pts which i would imagine could be better spent on some other stuff out of the 5th ed friendly C:SW rather than the historical documents we know as C:WH/C:DH.

IST's don't have to be included if you're allying the WH/DH into another list.

Really? Not being one that uses allies I'm none too familiar with those rules so I'll take your word for it. I thought you had to have a minimum of 1 HQ and 2 troop choices to satisfy the allying FOC?

Allies don't use their own FOC. Allies use the ally rules in Codex Demonhunter/Witchhunters. The only requirement for an assassin is an Inquisitor (which has to be an HQ as you can only ally 1 elite)

[Narthecium]

Because if Lukas is in CC with a unit that has Hit & Run (like Khan), and both units are likley to survive (say Khan vs 5 regular guys and Lukas) then it makes sense. Note: Khan is just an example off the top of my head.

 

 

Why not just shoot Khan?

 

Thanks grey mage, I'm aware of how assault works -- it simply still makes no sense that if you've doomed Lukas to die, to not just let whatever he is fighting kill him first instead of popping him with your own dude. In addition I will point out that you certainly have have him in base-to-base before your own shooting phase -- your enemy has an assault phase too, remember?

 

As Armoured Wing said, it seems a huge points sink for a tactic that very well may not work. You've got to hit Lukas, wound Lukas, he's got to fail his save, and then you've got to get a successful bomb off.

 

That's a lot of rolls.

[Hellios]

Because if Lukas is in CC with a unit that has Hit & Run (like Khan), and both units are likley to survive (say Khan vs 5 regular guys and Lukas) then it makes sense. Note: Khan is just an example off the top of my head.

 

 

Why not just shoot Khan?

 

Thanks grey mage, I'm aware of how assault works -- it simply still makes no sense that if you've doomed Lukas to die, to not just let whatever he is fighting kill him first instead of popping him with your own dude. In addition I will point out that you certainly have have him in base-to-base before your own shooting phase -- your enemy has an assault phase too, remember?

 

As Armoured Wing said, it seems a huge points sink for a tactic that very well may not work. You've got to hit Lukas, wound Lukas, he's got to fail his save, and then you've got to get a successful bomb off.

 

That's a lot of rolls.

 

Its about control there may be a point when lukas probably won't die but it would be advantageous for him to do so and the point is you have a choice you won't shoot him every time he is in combat and you can use the assassin normally. Control is everything... if you can control everything you can never loose, in the end you never can control everything but you can increase your control. The Application seems rather simple to be and I can't see what your not able to grasp although I can agree that this application is very situational and I wouldn't rely on it myself as a game winner although I can see it could win a game.

[ArmouredWing]

Its about control there may be a point when lukas probably won't die but it would be advantageous for him to do so and the point is you have a choice you won't shoot him every time he is in combat and you can use the assassin normally. Control is everything... if you can control everything you can never loose, in the end you never can control everything but you can increase your control. The Application seems rather simple to be and I can't see what your not able to grasp although I can agree that this application is very situational and I wouldn't rely on it myself as a game winner although I can see it could win a game.

Would it be worth investing those points for a very haphazard and ineffective tactic just on the off chance that it would work? I'd be inclined to say no, especially considering you'd have to play that setup game in game out to get the opportunity to use it.

 

Additionally I've tried to come up with a good reason why you'd want to do it and the only one I can find is to release a squad from CC when it was locked by an IC or the like. Thing is it's already been mentioned that you've got to succesfully make 4 lots of rolls for it to work, so in addition to the 150 odd points to unlock and buy the assassin you've got what amounts to a very high risk tactic. In fact those 150points could be better spent on getting some wargear into the squad.

 

So, back on track, it is possible but just because you can doesn't mean that it's a good idea or that you should.

[Narthecium]

Its about control there may be a point when lukas probably won't die but it would be advantageous for him to do so and the point is you have a choice you won't shoot him every time he is in combat and you can use the assassin normally. Control is everything... if you can control everything you can never loose, in the end you never can control everything but you can increase your control. The Application seems rather simple to be and I can't see what your not able to grasp although I can agree that this application is very situational and I wouldn't rely on it myself as a game winner although I can see it could win a game.

 

 

I'm able to grasp exactly what you're saying. I'm not sure why you can't grasp what I'M saying, and that is:

 

Are you aware you've dropped over 170 points on just the vindicare and the Inquisitor required to take the assassin in the first place? Now let's throw in the points for lukas and the squad he's in.

 

Can you seriously, honestly tell me that you can find nothing better to do with all those points then try to get Lukas into combat, just to shoot him and MAYBE take out a few models in a squad or one character? Nothing at all? And then to use this strategy against something he is going to kill? I mean we're not talking just situational at this point, we're talking once in a blue moon.

 

And then god forbid your vindicare gets plastered by indirect fire, or Lukas gets popped by shooting before he hits combat. Then your great strategy is out the door and you're down tons of points and left with a relatively inefficient assassin. Cool, yes, but hardly ever earns his points back for most people.

 

I'm not saying it's situational: I'm saying it's borderline stupid. That's like banking on a whirlwind to take out the enemy rhinos for you.

[KhorneHunter57x]

In my opinion the tactic is not the reason to take a Vindicare. If you already take one, then ithe tactic is a rabbit that you can pull out of your hat. If you don't take one, this alone is no reason to take one.

 

I take a Vindicare every so often because he can snipe the Plasma Cannon gunner or Sgt. with Power Fist (or Tau Ethereal or Eldar Exarch or Necron Lord with Res Orb...) out of a squad. The Vindicare is not an army by himself, but he is a force multiplier. He does not earn back his points, but he allows other units in your army to earn back more than they cost.