White Scar Successors

[Tyrannicide]

After being relatively quiet over the last couple months, I thought I'd see if I could start developing another DIY Chapter. Over the last week, I've looked for themes and inspirations to implement into the Space Marine archetype, and after skimming through hours of online research, I've finally settled upon something. I'm done with basing my future-Chapter on any real-world cultures, because it's too damn complicated. Most of the intriguing societies have already been used in Space Marine lore, and I need something different, something that can still draw people in and entertain the minds of the readers.

 

 

Inspired to post my notes on this new Chapter, I thought I'd try and summarize my current thoughts. After the recent return of Darrell, who also mentioned that the tremendous DIY'er Commissar Molotov helped him with his previous undertaking, I felt I was in a similar situation. Though I liked how my last creation - the Torchbearers – turned out, I can rightfully admit that Mol was incredibly instrumental in their becoming, as much as I was. I'd like to change that now. Not that I don't want opinions or advice, because I most certainly do, but rather, like Darrell, I want to forge the Chapter wholeheartedly (at least as much as possible).

 

 

Now the idea itself is certainly not anything new to me, but preferably I've decided to go about developing the concept in a different manner. I would like to base the Chapter around the sport of ice hockey - something that even surpasses my love for the 40k universe; a creation on its own that is incredibly encapsulating. For any of the readers out there that are as diehard a fan of any sport, as I am, then you'll probably understand just why I'd like to do such a thing.

 

 

The sport of hockey. Well there's something that sounds incredibly difficult to transfer into a universe where humanity's guardians are seven-foot tall killing machines that wear power armor suits that may even excel the armor of tanks, and wield oversized chainsaws and grenade-propelling guns in battle. On top of all that, most of them are devout servants to a corrupted galactic power led by a dying superman, are outcasts, and live by their own creed. Great. Now my intention is not to have these Space Marines playing a form of extreme hockey on some ice planet that just so happens to be their homeworld. No, this isn't some throwaway Disney concept, but more precisely speaking, I'd like to break down some basics of the game and translate those foothold concepts into a Chapter's making.

 

 

Still lost? Well if you're presently reading this, hopefully I'm not putting you to sleep, and I will try and illustrate what all this babble equates to. Hockey is a game in which many different play-styles are utilized and a variety of players are found. There are small players that use speed and skill to their advantage over larger players who rely upon sheer strength and grit to finish the job. Even that right there can serve as an exemplification of the Chapter's creation process; some Company Captains may prefer certain tactics over others, as would be the case in almost any Space Marine Chapter. To make this possible, I'm thinking the Chapter may have a different organization than the Codex-adherent Chapters. It's something that I've never been fond of, but I think it’s actually fitting for this Chapter. (By the way I hope the amount of times you've read 'Chapter' so far hasn't burnt your eyes out of your skull, because as you can see I'm still working on a name.)

 

 

***

 

 

Some core tenets I'd like to incorporate into the Chapter's Cult - their belief system - include: loyalty/faith, honor, ferocity, perseverance/tenacity, and sacrifice/courage. Now I will go ahead and highlight the quick thoughts I've had on each of these ideals, and just how they play a key role in ice hockey and this Chapter.

 

 

Loyalty/Faith:

I included these two together, as I see them working closely together in tandem - sort of complementary to each other. Loyalty in a team and its inner workings has been something that leads to success in the hockey world, whether that's at an amateur or professional level. In order to be loyal to a team, one has to be utterly faithful, and make choices based on what is best for the team. After all, "the name on the front is a hell of a lot more important than the name on the back" – to quote hockey coach Herb Brooks from Miracle, a film based on the 1980 US Olympic hockey team and the amazing feats they accomplished. (By the way, the quote is referring to the layout of a hockey jersey. The name/logo of the organization on the front, the player's name and number on the backside.)

 

That line is something that serves as an epitome of this Chapter. They're so incredibly dependable on one another, but they have an unbreakable trust in their Chapter and the Emperor. I feel that in order to be inducted into this Chapter, a candidate has to possess a fierce desire to gain victory, at any and all costs. On top of that, they would be righteous servants of the Emperor from a young age.

 

At this point the 'loyalty/faith concept' is at a very fragile point, it's something that definitely needs to be expanded more, but at times it can be complex translating ideas from my head into comprehensible sentences. So for now I'll leave this as is.

 

 

Honor:

Honor is something that the majority of hockey players have always understood well. Fighting and intimidation is a large part of any NHL game, but the players go about doing so in a noble fashion, at almost all times. Fighting in a hockey game serves as a momentum builder, an inspiration. Likewise, inspiration and honorable visages will play a large role in this Chapter. The Chapter does not believe that gaining victories on the battlefield will bring them glory, but rather they are measured by the deeds they perform and the manner in which they conduct themselves. One idea I pondered over was a champion of the Chapter, challenging the strongest of his enemies, in a similar fashion to the Emperor's Champion.

 

With that, I thought more of the "spirit" of the Chapter, and I suppose you could relate them to the Salamanders in that they are more humane and unselfish, opposed to the Flesh Tearers or Marines Malevolent and their somewhat despicable and arrogant ways. They're certainly one of the more noble Chapters; very humble, they can spot the 'big picture' more clearly than other Imperials. I haven't thought all that much about their homeworld, but I think they'd be somewhat close to the populace. At least as attached as a Space Marine would be capable of, and they'd shape these people into the ideas that served as a very basis for their very own creation.

 

 

Ferocity:

Similar to my later point on perseverance, the warriors possess a strong 'no mercy for those that have turned from the Emperor's Light' mindset - somewhat zealous. Always attacking, this Chapter believes in the 'best form of defense, is a strong offense' theory. They'd indefinitely rally and form counterattacks, before building defensive positions. In the hockey world this tactic is known as 'forechecking', or applying an aggressive style of defense/pressure before an opponent can organize an attack.

 

I'm fairly certain that these guys will be White Scars successors. I've been fond of the White Scars since reading their IA article, and would like to pay some homage to the loyal sons of Jaghatai. That, and the fast, unforgiving pace of hockey translate well with the gene-sons of one of the most savage characters in the 40k-verse. Hockey is a game in which you can be left in the dust (or ice in this situation) if caught out of position or unsuspecting - it is incredibly up-tempo. A strategy the lightning quick White Scars equally specialize in.

 

Though the White Scars share affection for their bikes, my Chapter will focus more on the infantry of the Astartes, but they're certainly not strangers to the saddle. These warriors will be as ferocious and savage as their Primarch, though the Chapter Cult may preach the value of acting with temperance and withstanding in some situations. I'll see how else I can include 'ferocity' within the Chapter's perspective.

 

 

Perseverance/Tenacity:

Never yielding, consistently and constantly working, and showing fortitude are also a bulk of a good hockey player's approach to the game. It's something you will see in many playoff and championship type atmospheres. The Space Marines already act accordingly - never surrendering, even in the face of defeat. After all, they know no fear. This is one of those concepts that really hasn't gone anywhere just yet; simply a thought that will need to be thickened greatly.

 

 

Sacrifice/Courage:

Breaking bones, straining muscles, and any other injuries that are received in a game of hockey are sometimes taken for the betterment of the team, the possibility or chance of winning the game. In order to sacrifice yourself you are required to have an outstanding bravery. This relies on that loyalty you have with the team, something that you are completely faithful to.

 

Again Space Marines already share a strong bond with their Chapter and are unswervingly willing to die for their brethren, but it's something that I'd like to push with these guys. This Chapter will regularly hold competitions to strengthen bonds, and are an inseparable brotherhood of warriors, whose art of war involves sacrifices - sometimes that are unneeded. They're shortsighted and possess a firm, resolute determination and their stubbornness is quite great. Not stubborn in a way that they follow their own motives (like the Unforgiven), but rather, they are unwilling to admit defeat in the face of what they trust as a weaker enemy.

 

 

That about finishes that segment of my first post, as I need more time to think and develop those listed concepts. With that said, there is one last idea that I found interesting enough to include at this point. Superstition.

 

 

Superstition:

Many hockey players take part in varying degrees of superstitious rituals. The method in which gear is put on the body, the way a hockey stick is taped, and various other pre and post game rituals. This Chapter will be no different in that they will be extremely superstitious and entrenched in age old rituals and practices that are common place in the Chapter's functioning.

 

Pre- and post- battle rituals will be expanse. No, they won't be applying their power armor in a unique way, but rather they will have interesting rituals that they adhere to. Now at this point I haven't developed any of note, but I am fairly certain that the Liber crowd prefers reading about the quirks and beliefs of a Chapter over their combat doctrine or organization, and so I'll make sure to spend my time on that section of the IA article. I feel many of the practices would derive from the society of the Chapter's home planet, so that the world building will definitely be my next priority.

 

 

***

 

That's all for now. Any thoughts on what I have posted would be encouraging, as I'd get a grasp on how many readers are interested thus far. If you've got the spare time, please offer up any opinions, ideas, comments, criticism, you name it. Thanks for your time, and here's to my next 'installment'. Cheers. :)

[Ferrus Manus]

Darth my friend, I shall support you in this endeavour. But the minute you mention the words 'mighty' and 'ducks' in the same sentence I'm outta here :)

 

I think this could work and the themes all seem to be in place. That and I know you love your hockey, so hopefully this shall reflect that.

Personally, I think that what really needs to be emphasised is the bond of brotherhood in this chapter. Like, hugely.

 

And is it just me, or do I see a lot of assault marines for these guys...

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I think this could work and the themes all seem to be in place. That and I know you love your hockey, so hopefully this shall reflect that.

 

As soon as what you enjoy becomes work the love of it dies. Love keeps things going and hopefully that means putting in the hard yards here, it is definitely more than evident in your presentation Darth.

 

I've gotta say this is very very interesting in concept. I've never really thought of a sport inspiring a space marine chapter, but the way you present it makes me think otherwise.

 

A lot of the tenets you've listed are already present when you think of a space marine chapter and I agree with Ferrus that you should concentrate on one aspect and that brotherhood as mentioned is a great focus to take. Not only that but you rarely see any chapter focusing on their fraternal bond, more it is simply assumed that they are tight, nor is it specified whether they actually like each other or have any love for the chapter bar their own individual pledge to the Emperor and their Primarch.

 

Very intriguing.

[Tyrannicide]

Darth my friend, I shall support you in this endeavour. But the minute you mention the words 'mighty' and 'ducks' in the same sentence I'm outta here

 

I think this could work and the themes all seem to be in place. That and I know you love your hockey, so hopefully this shall reflect that.

Personally, I think that what really needs to be emphasised is the bond of brotherhood in this chapter. Like, hugely.

 

And is it just me, or do I see a lot of assault marines for these guys...

Thanks for the support, Ferrus. :D

 

I wholeheartedly agree with your suggestion on the emphasis of brotherhood and the close bonds one another share in the Chapter. I'll definitely keep my eyes open and will search for ways to apply this further. I was thinking whenever possible, perhaps the whole Chapter (or as available an amount of) take part in select ceremonies of importance to the Chapter's history. Not incredibly thoughtful - I digress, but instead of the Company practices, the focus is being changed to the entirety of the Chapter in some cases.

 

 

I think this could work and the themes all seem to be in place. That and I know you love your hockey, so hopefully this shall reflect that.

 

As soon as what you enjoy becomes work the love of it dies. Love keeps things going and hopefully that means putting in the hard yards here, it is definitely more than evident in your presentation Darth.

 

I've gotta say this is very very interesting in concept. I've never really thought of a sport inspiring a space marine chapter, but the way you present it makes me think otherwise.

 

A lot of the tenets you've listed are already present when you think of a space marine chapter and I agree with Ferrus that you should concentrate on one aspect and that brotherhood as mentioned is a great focus to take. Not only that but you rarely see any chapter focusing on their fraternal bond, more it is simply assumed that they are tight, nor is it specified whether they actually like each other or have any love for the chapter bar their own individual pledge to the Emperor and their Primarch.

 

Very intriguing.

You know I was really looking forward to a reply from you GHY, as I value your opinion, so I appreciate the fact that you posted. That said, I'm surprised you're so open to the ideas I've laid out so far and I'm glad you like what you've seen.

 

 

More to follow, I just need to rest up and get the cogs rotating in my head once more. Again any more comments are welcome, I'll happily discuss these guys with you. If it means more development in the long run, then it's only beneficial.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

You know I was really looking forward to a reply from you GHY, as I value your opinion, so I appreciate the fact that you posted.

 

:D

 

I appreciate the kind words!

 

That said, I'm surprised you're so open to the ideas I've laid out so far and I'm glad you like what you've seen.

 

Well, the fact is originality, real originality is hard to come by. The fact that you've taken a sport and laid out exactly how you plan to integrate it into 40k and what aspects your concentrating on clearly enough that I can understand what your getting at even without being a hockey fan. I am a firm believer that anything can be done here, depending on how well you write it out. If you had simply said "I'm going to do a chapter based on Hockey" I would have been more than a little dubious. However as I said earlier your explanation removed such doubts quickly enough that I could get into what you wanted from your source of inspiration.

 

All that said, the jury is still out until they pass the initial creative stage you have ahead of you as everything after that is usually just polish and refinement. If they start wielding hockey-stick shaped chain-blades I'll have to load my fluff-bolter and go to town. :P

 

The two points I see as most beneficial to concentrate on are the aforementioned brotherhood, but the superstitious angle is also very interesting as despite all Imperial anythings being more superstitious than a barrel of old-sea-dogs (odd metaphors ahoy!) are very standardized in their superstitions, which makes it easier to integrate new ones from a chapter building standpoint. Just what kind of superstitions would you incorporate from your concept into the chapter, or 40kify?

[Lysimachus]

It seems like a very nice start DP

 

I really like your assessment of how those qualities fit in with an Astartes Chapter, I think they fit nicely with pretty much most Chapters out there! Of course, to echo what FM and GHY have said, that could be kind of the problem.

 

The question is, if you're not being obvious about the link with ice hockey (like the stick shaped chainswords GHY mentioned :wacko: ) which I don't think you should be, what is it that is going to make these guys stand out from all the rest?

 

It might be a bit of a side point right now but one thing that's always struck me with sports-based Chapters is the thought of their relationship with the people of their homeworld, compared to the bond between a team and their fans. Not to say they should take banner waving fans into battle or anything, but I could see coming home after a successful campaign being honoured with some sort of victory parade? Perhaps it's a bit early to be thinking about specifics like that, but hopefully it gives some idea of what I mean?

 

Anyway, it looks like a very promising start, I'm eager to see what comes next!

 

cheers

 

Lysimachus

[Tyrannicide]

Well after over two weeks away from this thread, I thought it was about time to update again, as I have thought of a few more things to incorporate into the Chapter's personal archetype.

 

***

 

First and foremost, thanks for the feedback Lysimachus, it appears I missed your post. I do think it's a little too soon to begin thinking about details such as victory parades. Nevertheless, I appreciate the comments - so keep 'em coming!

 

 

After watching a documentary on the Shaolin Temple and its practices, I've been inspired to implement some of the core themes associated with Shaolin philosophy. Some of these values are already present in the average Space Marine Chapter, as both the Astartes and the Shaolin warriors conduct themselves in an austere manner.

 

Pragmatic, calculated, and cunning as a hawk, the Chapter is inspired by the Great Khan himself. While other White Scar successors may be feral and possess an unrestrained thirst for bloodshed, my Chapter is far more…shall we say…phlegmatic? Hmm, I guess that's how I would put it. For now at least.

 

Shaolin monks or even disciples, potential monks in training, practice rigorously throughout their lives. Even upon being accepted into the ranks of the monks, they continue their indoctrination into Temple society. This is already so close to an Astartes way of life, that it can be transferred seamlessly. Many young, aspiring boys will be selected to join the Shaolin Monastery, so long as they're fit. So it's possible that my Chapter will be selecting its recruits from an extremely young age, even as young as infants. In this scenario, the warriors would practically be born into the Chapter. I'm not so keen on this idea, but I'll need to figure out the ramifications of Astartes recruitment. I suppose it also depends on what sort of world their home planet becomes.

 

 

Now a hockey specific idea sprang to mind recently. I'd like to incorporate many traditions and history seen in the background of hockey. For example and more specifically, the "Original Six". For those too lazy to open the link, here's my summary.

 

 

The "Original Six"

The Original Six were some of the first teams to be introduced into the NHL before an expansion brought in another six clubs. Known for their following and support, the Original Six teams are highly respected and are acknowledged as holding the most tradition and history in the NHL hockey world. I will be paying tribute to these famous organizations in a variety of ways, many of which you will not be aware of, but they'll be there.

 

I believe mentioned previously that I had thought about constructing the Chapter's layout into a hybrid mish-mash of Companies. Here are my thoughts. The First through Ninth Companies are the Battle-Companies. Each consisting of one hundred warriors. Every Company is led by a Captain and his personal command squad, and can be further broken down into ten remaining squads of as many warriors. Six Tactical squads, two Assault squads, and the remaining two being the Devastators. The Tenth Company is the 'normal' Scout Company, and is responsible for the Chapter's recruitment and training.

 

However, there is an additional 'company' of warriors. Led by their own Commander, these veterans of a thousand campaigns are the deadliest Space Marines this Chapter has to offer. They are led by the most efficient, skilled Space Marine in the Chapter and can boast up to four squads of five men, all encased in suits of Tactical Dreadnought Armor. These will take the place of the Chapter Master's Honor Guard, and bear the Chapter Banner into battle. Shrouded in mysticism, these warriors keep to themselves and are only ever seen upon the most important of battlefields, eternally vigilant over their master.

 

Sorry for the long spiel, but I am getting somewhere - though don't hold your breath. My idea is to have the Chapter being founded around a middle date, say the 15th Founding or so. The reason being, a substantial amount of time for the Chapter's establishment. After completing initial recruitment and after a lengthy period of time the Chapter began numbering around six Companies of Astartes. These sextuplets would become an icon of the Chapter. Forming their very own Chapter praxis that has lasted through the millennia. Recognized as being more prevalent than the remaining three Battle-Companies, these are held in high esteem. To be admitted into the "Six" means that you've proven yourself to your brothers. As such, the first Six companies of the Chapter are composed of more adept, battle-scarred Astartes.

 

This isn't revolutionary by any means, but it is something that holds an importance with me. Being a die-hard fan of one of the latest expansion teams, to beat an Original Six team in the NHL is a great sensation. With this Chapter I've visualized a 'circles within circles' layout. You start as a Scout, advance to one of the 'lesser' Companies (Seven through Ninth), and upon surviving through countless conflicts, you have the opportunity to join the 'upperclassmen' - those arrogant (though rightfully so) Astartes. It is a great honor to reach this step in the Chapter's structure; so much that I'll be developing a few different trials and rituals that are practiced by these venerated Companies.

 

 

If an Astartes is to perish, his name and deeds will be commemorated. I'll definitely be thinking of death-rites, and their importance within the Chapter.

 

 

Now I understand I stated that I was going to include details on the Chapter's home planet in this current update, but sadly I haven't found inspiration yet. I would desperately like for these guys to have a homeworld (as I feel it gives them a whole other dimension) and it will add more spice and flavor to them. It's just I don't want to force this process. After all, it took Commissar Molotov over four years to get the Castigators to the level they're at now! Regardless, I will be keeping my eyes peeled for any world-building possibilities, and I hope to include any ideas I discover in my next update.

 

***

 

That's all for now, and I hope to have a heap of ideas for next time. Thanks for reading and leave any thoughts or comments if you feel compelled to do so. :P

[Ferrus Manus]

I believe mentioned previously that I had thought about constructing the Chapter's layout into a hybrid mish-mash of Companies. Here are my thoughts. The First through Ninth Companies are the Battle-Companies. Each consisting of one hundred warriors. Every Company is led by a Captain and his personal command squad, and can be further broken down into ten remaining squads of as many warriors. Six Tactical squads, two Assault squads, and the remaining two being the Devastators. The Tenth Company is the 'normal' Scout Company, and is responsible for the Chapter's recruitment and training.

 

However, there is an additional 'company' of warriors. Led by their own Commander, these veterans of a thousand campaigns are the deadliest Space Marines this Chapter has to offer. They are led by the most efficient, skilled Space Marine in the Chapter and can boast up to four squads of five men, all encased in suits of Tactical Dreadnought Armor. These will take the place of the Chapter Master's Honor Guard, and bear the Chapter Banner into battle. Shrouded in mysticism, these warriors keep to themselves and are only ever seen upon the most important of battlefields, eternally vigilant over their master.

 

Interesting, but as usual why? Why did they set up like this instead of the usual Codex or in the White Scars fashion of Brotherhoods? The second paragraph I like and it could be fitted into the Chapter regardless of whether you go with 9 Battle Companies or not.

 

Now I understand I stated that I was going to include details on the Chapter's home planet in this current update, but sadly I haven't found inspiration yet. I would desperately like for these guys to have a homeworld (as I feel it gives them a whole other dimension) and it will add more spice and flavor to them.

A homeworld is an important part of a Chapter, as you know, it is a way of incorporating themes into the Chapter. That said please don't put them on an icy deathworld, it would take the theme too far... and it has been done way too many times :P If I'm honest I would go with the complete opposite for them. It could make it more interesting.

 

Still, keep it up. I like where this is going.

[Marshal Rohr]

Make the homeworld like Canada. It would have ties to hockey and it has some of the toughest terrain anywhere. Stick the fortress monastery in the middle of a lake in the highest range. That way in your mind your marines can play hockey when the lake freezes :) . Just dont actually write about that :P

 

 

As for the recruitment, I vote take the child from birth. If they did a massive population sweep every few years and took all the compatible babies into the Chapter so they could train them from a younger age. It would allow the Chapter to increase the chances of success when being implanted with the different organs, and this could have arisen from something in your chapters past, like it doesnt want to risk failing aspirants or something. The aspirants who dont pass the trials at 14 are given over to whatever you call your Chapter Serfs to serve the Chapter in another way, driving home the theme of improving your rank through ability. The best become marines, the others become better than the mortals of the homeworld, and so on.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

That said please don't put them on an icy deathworld, it would take the theme too far... and it has been done way too many times :lol: If I'm honest I would go with the complete opposite for them. It could make it more interesting.

 

I reckon I agree here. Going too far into the 'icy' theme would ruin the chapter before it had begun and while I don't expect you to do this, it is definitely erring on the side of caution to at least point it out before the possibility arises.

 

Going the opposite way could be rather interesting, though your safest bet is to go with Marshal's suggestion of basing it upon Canada or similar environments that the sport grew from.

 

 

At the moment I'm a bit stuck for ideas but I'll revisit the thread when I have more thoughts.

[Tyrannicide]

Thanks for the comments, gentlemen. I appreciate your time.

 

Interesting, but as usual why? Why did they set up like this instead of the usual Codex or in the White Scars fashion of Brotherhoods? The second paragraph I like and it could be fitted into the Chapter regardless of whether you go with 9 Battle Companies or not.

 

 

A homeworld is an important part of a Chapter, as you know, it is a way of incorporating themes into the Chapter. That said please don't put them on an icy deathworld, it would take the theme too far... and it has been done way too many times ;) If I'm honest I would go with the complete opposite for them. It could make it more interesting.

 

Still, keep it up. I like where this is going.

Really I don't think much of a justification for the Chapter organization is needed. Not everything the Astartes do is sensible, after all. But to answer your question, maybe the first Chapter Master organized the Chapter as such because they were constantly engaged in conflicts, needing more than the normal amount of personnel taking the roles of the Battle-Companies. Thereafter it remained, due to the traditional beliefs the Chapter is entrenched in.

 

Honestly, I'm not all that sold on the organization just yet. In the final product I may end up deciding on a Codex-adherent structure, or even something more comparable to the White Scars Brotherhoods. Which brings me to another point. I'm thinking these guys might be the 'black sheep' of the White Scars successors. It's not so much that they are looked upon with contempt or that they bring disgrace to their brother Chapters, but they'd be playing more of the outcast role. They are different than their primogenitor Legion and subsequently their own sons. They follow the teachings left behind by Jaghatai, but have also since forged their own rules.

 

Regarding the homeworld - have no worries Ferrus, or M2C and GHY, for that matter. It is and never was my intention to base them on an ice covered planet. The whole concept isn't too feasible, but at times I find myself thinking what is in the 40k universe? As such, no snow world for me, as it does push the concept over the top.

 

 

Make the homeworld like Canada. It would have ties to hockey and it has some of the toughest terrain anywhere. Stick the fortress monastery in the middle of a lake in the highest range. That way in your mind your marines can play hockey when the lake freezes ;) . Just dont actually write about that ;)

 

 

As for the recruitment, I vote take the child from birth. If they did a massive population sweep every few years and took all the compatible babies into the Chapter so they could train them from a younger age. It would allow the Chapter to increase the chances of success when being implanted with the different organs, and this could have arisen from something in your chapters past, like it doesnt want to risk failing aspirants or something. The aspirants who dont pass the trials at 14 are given over to whatever you call your Chapter Serfs to serve the Chapter in another way, driving home the theme of improving your rank through ability. The best become marines, the others become better than the mortals of the homeworld, and so on.

Most Astartes are quite self-centered and selfish, so certainly makes sense. Though they might be damaging their homeworld's gene-pool, they ignorantly continue, taking the best for themselves. I'll have to give this more thought, though it's not at the top of my list right now.

 

 

I reckon I agree here. Going too far into the 'icy' theme would ruin the chapter before it had begun and while I don't expect you to do this, it is definitely erring on the side of caution to at least point it out before the possibility arises.

 

Going the opposite way could be rather interesting, though your safest bet is to go with Marshal's suggestion of basing it upon Canada or similar environments that the sport grew from.

 

 

At the moment I'm a bit stuck for ideas but I'll revisit the thread when I have more thoughts.

I'm not too fond on basing the world off of Canadian climates/wilderness but I'll consider it. Now going the opposite of cold could be interesting, so I'll also see what I can work up for that scenario.

 

 

***

 

Now I mentioned in my reply to Ferrus' post that I'm still undecided on the Chapter's organization. It's really not all that important to me, but I mine as well describe my thoughts now. I'll admit that I did, and somewhat hastily, rush my ideas on the Chapter composition. Instead I've thought about the "Original Six" idea heading into a different direction. Instead of representing the Original Six as the first six Companies of the Chapter, they would have been the first six Captains of the Chapter. One of the things I want to accomplish with these guys is ancestral worship. Long after these Chapter forefathers perished, the Chapter still consorts their spirits for guidance and sanctuary. They continue to worship these figures, whether it be through spiritual devotion or in microcosm. Perhaps each 'legend' represents a different aspect of the Chapter's pantheon, and certain warriors are drawn to certain ancestor Captains. With this new course, I feel that I have created something that can help showcase the Chapter's peculiar mindset to a better degree than the 'six Companies' idea.

 

 

I'd be grateful for thoughts from anyone on the matter. If you need more of a description or lucid response, I can do just that. It's a little complicated getting thoughts out, but I try. :nuke:

[Octavulg]

Keep in mind, the bit of Canada where ice hockey is from is actually a relatively nice farming valley for most of the rest of the year. It's fairly temperate. Trust me, I went to school there.

 

Windsor, Nova Scotia

 

Also, there must be at least one reference to the Great One, the most puissant warrior of the Chapter whose talents were squandered in a far off land. :P

[Marshal Rohr]

Also, there must be at least one reference to the Great One, the most puissant warrior of the Chapter whose talents were squandered in a far off land. :P

 

 

That would make a cool sidebar. The First Chapter Master getting marooned on a planet for half a century.

[Tyrannicide]

Keep in mind, the bit of Canada where ice hockey is from is actually a relatively nice farming valley for most of the rest of the year. It's fairly temperate. Trust me, I went to school there.

 

Windsor, Nova Scotia

 

Also, there must be at least one reference to the Great One, the most puissant warrior of the Chapter whose talents were squandered in a far off land. :P

:)

 

Octavulg showing some hockey loving, huh? I've thought about incorporating some elements of Gretzky's legacy and the like, so definitely some sort of homage. Just realize I'm from Southern California, but before his era too. Though I despise the Kings, so it's all good. :sick:

 

 

That would make a cool sidebar. The First Chapter Master getting marooned on a planet for half a century.

Perhaps, though I can't help but think it sounds oddly familiar.

 

LINK.

 

And the plot is familar to a number of BL-published novels. Wasn't the stranded Chapter Master of the Marines Exemplar killed on some lost world also?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

And the plot is familar to a number of BL-published novels. Wasn't the stranded Chapter Master of the Marines Exemplar killed on some lost world also?

 

Well the plot is familiar to a few real life stories and many fictional tales throughout history as well. The basic concept might not be totally original but there are very few ideas that really are entirely new and never-been-done at the moment of their inception. The real originality comes in making the idea your own. Putting yourself into it and turning it into something unique to you is what makes something that has been done before into something original and more to the point, interesting.

 

If you like the idea, give it a shot. Nothing is lost in the attempt, all is gained in success.

 

Now going the opposite of cold could be interesting, so I'll also see what I can work up for that scenario.

 

Now in my mind I was thinking something more akin to California than to something like the ultimate extreme of say the Saharan desert or the Australian Capital/Northern Territory.

 

To make them desert dwellers would be pushing it too far, in my opinion.

 

Instead I've thought about the "Original Six" idea heading into a different direction. Instead of representing the Original Six as the first six Companies of the Chapter, they would have been the first six Captains of the Chapter.

 

Honestly I like this a lot more than being six vaunted companies and the characterization of ancestor worship and veneration seems to fit the parameters you laid down initially when you gave your first draft of the chapters personality. While there is nothing wrong with it being six companies really, this evolution of the idea seems to sit better with me instinctively and I always follow my gut feeling.

[Octavulg]

Octavulg is from Canada. It's natural. :P

 

I'll give this a proper reading tomorrow.