JTibbetts Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I haven't glued him up yet, but I am seriously considering doubling up on Power Fists for my Captain. Is this a terrible idea? I realize that Lightning Claws are more common but I only have one, and you need a pair to be very effective, right? I am struggling with the fact that he won't have a gun, and have considered giving him an Aux. Grenade Launcher just so he has something to do in the shooting phase before he charges in. :P Is it worth the points, in your experience? I figure he may only use a "real" gun once or twice, and it cuts another attack off his profile... But, is that Initiative 1 a big problem, in your opinion? I haven't played with the 5th Ed. rules yet concerning how characters fight independently in CC, so has it ever been a problem for you folks to have him striking last in a CC since he can't have his buddies soak up the heat for him when the opponent attacks first? I have also considered Digital Lasers, partly out of nostalgia for RT and partly for their practical use, but with a WS of 6, I imagine they aren't needed very often, no? What sort of build would you recommend for him? Am I making a mistake wanting to drop two Fists on him? It does look pretty cool... :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 It does depend what you want to do with him, but you might find a Relic Blade and combiweapon or hellfire rounds more useful. You really benefit from his initiative, and I prefer to use my command to deal with troops rather than other tooled commands; thats what hidden powerfists are for. :wacko: Other than that 2x powerfists is expensive. The only real plus is it wouls look totally bad-arse! :) RoV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2166635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightguy Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I'd be more tempted if I could find a good matching pair of fists. As I remember, there isn't a left fist that matches the right fist in the Assault Squad box (only right fist I can think of). That and it's expensive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2166835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Don't have a copy of the Marine dex handy, but I thought Calgar was the only one who could take two Power Fists ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2166841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Don't have a copy of the Marine dex handy, but I thought Calgar was the only one who could take two Power Fists ? Nope, all captains (and evens sergeants) have the option to replace bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon/bolter with any from the list. Means you could have two relic blades if you really wanted but you couldn't claim an advantage from it. You could always cut the claws off of lightning claws, its what I've done for one of my wolf lords Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2166855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arikel Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 The fist that matches the assault squad squad one is the one in the devastator box, they're mirror images except for minor iconogrphy. As for loadout, the captains initiative is the best a marine can get, so a lot of people feel that "wasting" such initiative by taking I1 weapons is a missed opportunity. The relic blade gives a powerful attack at initiative, and still allows you to take a ranged weapon of your choice, or a stormshield to improve your inv save . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2166875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Unfortunately, there's not much point to it. The problem you'll face is the Initiative of 1. Your opponent can direct attacks at the captain at their Initiative, forcing him to take saves before he ever gets to swing. Against something with a power weapon, he could be cut down before you use those 50 points worth of powerfists! All it would take would be one failed invulnerable save to a Librarian's Force Weapon, and your very expensive Captain goes poof without a fight. He doesn't have Eternal Warrior, so he can be instakilled. The relic blade is a far better choice. It'll wound even a basic Carnifex on a 4, and you get all of the captain's attacks in at Initiative. Digital lasers would help more with the relic blade than the dual-fists. I'm in love with the aux launcher, by the way. It's just such a great, cheap option that throws some extra options into your shooting phase. One S6 shot, or a S3 blast, in addition to all of your other shooting is great. You can even fire it before the charge! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2166936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 This is how I kit out my captain; - relic blade - artificer armor - storm shield - digital weapons Comes out at 170 points, and it's an absolute killing machine. Power fists/thunder hammers aren't so good on HQs because they waste their initiative. If you really want an I1 captain, just take lysander instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2166971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Power fists/thunder hammers aren't so good on HQs because they waste their initiative. If you really want an I1 captain, just take lysander instead. I tend to agree with Giga here. There are so many ways to kill an I1 character with only 3 wounds, and it's not just before he gets to go. Think about the situation where he's up against a unit with multiple powerfists, or an I1 opponent with S8 or better. When before you had a possibility of limiting the number of powerfists and S8+ attacks coming in at you by going AT initiative, now a basic Carnifex, a terminator squad, or group of nobz, ALL of them get to go at the same time. It's mutually assured destruction a lot of the time, but you come out on the losing end of that virtually every time as well. Powerfists don't get better than relic blades until T5 or when going after vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2166982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 This is how I kit out my captain; - relic blade - artificer armor - storm shield - digital weapons Comes out at 170 points, and it's an absolute killing machine. Do you often find the A. Armor and S. Shield to be worth it? You're already 3+/4++, so I'm curious if 2+/3++ is that much more important considering the points you're paying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2167043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Do you often find the A. Armor and S. Shield to be worth it? You're already 3+/4++, so I'm curious if 2+/3++ is that much more important considering the points you're paying. I put artificer armor on my Biker Captain as a mainstay. The 2+ save is invaluable for shifting lone wounds to the Captain to save another biker. For example, let's say my squad gets hit with a single wound from a weapont hat is S7 or less. I can either risk the 3+ save of a normal biker, or take the 2+ save with my captain and maintain model count (and therefore firepower). If I fail, I lose one of my Cappy's 3 wounds. If I succeed, I lose nothing. It's also great for weathering a ton of incoming melee attacks, say against Orks or gribbly Nids. it essentially makes your Captain a Terminator-Lite. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2167090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Recently made a chapter master in terminator armour with thunder hammer and chainfist, sure not exactly using the int but the model looks cool as hell. Sometimes it's nice just to adopt the angry marine policy! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2167119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkios Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Speaking of angry marine policy, Ive always kinda wanted to make a Terminator captain armed with dual chain fists, but sadly that is not an option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2167206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekLee688 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I say if you want dual fists, then do it on a sergeant. Consider penning the parts so you can swap out parts at will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2167349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 At least 2 Power Fists is better than 2 Storm Shields <_< I use just A. Armor, Relic Blade, and a Storm Shield on mine. 2+/3+ is awesome. As ShinyRhino said, "it makes you a Termie-lite" (that can Sweeping Advance!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2167394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTibbetts Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Thanks for the tips, guys. I would love to just magnetize it and get it over with, but I don't have the stuff for that yet. I should probably hold off for now. 3 Comments and Questions: 1) I thought a Relic Blade was two-handed? It says it is in the description. Although it doesn't say that you can't have a gun or shield in the other hand, it seems a little strange to me. Is this an official rule? How does one model a Relic Blade, anyway? There are scant few examples out there of two-handed power weapons. How do you all do it? 2) If I'm going with a gun to balance him out a bit, which one have you guys had luck with? I would think Combi-Melta would be the choice here, but one could certainly make a case for Plasma. If I'm that close, though, I think I'd rather be charging in to attack. I don't know. 3) Say I go with a Lightning Claw and a gun. Does that mean that only one of my three attacks gets to use the LC rules? That exception's really supposed to be for a person with two CC weapons, isn't it? If I am not using a pistol or another CC weapon, wouldn't they all be coming from the Claw? This seems odd... how do you guys play that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2167418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Thanks for the tips, guys. I would love to just magnetize it and get it over with, but I don't have the stuff for that yet. I should probably hold off for now. 3 Comments and Questions: 1) I thought a Relic Blade was two-handed? It says it is in the description. Although it doesn't say that you can't have a gun or shield in the other hand, it seems a little strange to me. Is this an official rule? How does one model a Relic Blade, anyway? There are scant few examples out there of two-handed power weapons. How do you all do it? 2) If I'm going with a gun to balance him out a bit, which one have you guys had luck with? I would think Combi-Melta would be the choice here, but one could certainly make a case for Plasma. If I'm that close, though, I think I'd rather be charging in to attack. I don't know. 3) Say I go with a Lightning Claw and a gun. Does that mean that only one of my three attacks gets to use the LC rules? That exception's really supposed to be for a person with two CC weapons, isn't it? If I am not using a pistol or another CC weapon, wouldn't they all be coming from the Claw? This seems odd... how do you guys play that? 1) It says in the little rules part below the description that you can't get the 2 weapon CC bonus ever with one. You can get a gun or shield (or even a Power Fist), which is why the RB/SS combo is so popular. For modelling, I used the Vanguard Vet w/Relic Blade, but you can convert the pintle-mounted gun arms to hold a weapon in 2 hands. You could also use a Grey Knights-style glaive to represent it. 2) I would say Aux. Grenade Launcher (leaves the hands free for 2 wps. or SS). 3) All 3 (4 on charge) attacks use the special weapon's bonuses. P. 42, BRB. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2167767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arikel Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 1) They are two handed in fluff. For game terms it simply means you can never get more then your statline number of attacks, as specified in the description. For parts to usecheck out the AoBR captains sword, the Company Champions Sword(from Command Squad Kit), or the new Frost Axe in the Space Wolves Pack, they are all bigger than most other power swords, and the Frost Axe is modelled to be held two handed. 2) A lot of folks would go with a combi weapon here, flamer would be a good choice if you expect hordes. Alternately, a stormbolter would let you fire twice when assaulting and only costs 3 points on a captain. 3) It simply means if you have only one LC then you only get your statline attacks, same rule as powerfists and t-hammers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2167773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I wouldnt personally- 25pts for an extra attack is to a high a premium. If anything, Id give him a SS or a Relicblade, for the extra defense or in case you wanted to go at iniative. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2167891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Do you often find the A. Armor and S. Shield to be worth it?You're already 3+/4++, so I'm curious if 2+/3++ is that much more important considering the points you're paying. My captain usually does two things; 1) supports th/ss terminators 2) soloes entire units of heavy infantry, particularly stuff like MEQ, tyranid warriors, bikers, etc. In the first role, the artificer armor gets great use because I always allocate as many wounds as possible on the captain (provided they aren't str8 or higher, ofc), so his 2+ save means he can soak up small-arms fire (which is what usually kills my termies) like mad. In close combat it's less useful because most people focus their attacks on the termies anyway. In the second role, the artificer armor becomes invaluable, as it enables the captain to go in, rely on his I5 to kill 2-3 models before they can even swing, and then proceeds to ignore a whole lot of punishment thanks to his 2+ armor save. It's death for MEQ, and I had this sort of captain (also Vulkan, who's geared the same) take out entire units of berzerkers, sternguard, assault marines, death company, tyranid warriors, etc. It's also quite suitably heroic and cool. ;) As for the 3++ save from the shield, that's ALWAYS useful, no matter the situation. There are always some power weapons or ap2/1 shots going around, and the storm shield gives me the very best chance to survive a powerfist/forceweapon wound. Not to mention it enables me to let my captain take flyrants or even daemon princes 1on1. They can't instant death him, and his 3++ save gets him to survive their damage while their lack of invulnerable save or weak invulnerable save means he'll actually be winning combat. It's also suitably dramatic to yell "THOU SHALT NOT PASS". On the whole, I think the artificer armor + storm shield combo is absolutely awesome, and at 30 points isn't expensive, considering how great it is. I also think 170 pts for a killer HQ that also unlocks a command squad is well worth it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2168404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I would personally cut the middle man on two power fists and give him DUAL THUNDER HAMMERS YAAAH!!! :) Seriously that's a bad idea. RB + SS/Combi-Wep/Dead Fish is an infinitely better combo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2168641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khavos Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 On the whole, I think the artificer armor + storm shield combo is absolutely awesome, and at 30 points isn't expensive, considering how great it is. I also think 170 pts for a killer HQ that also unlocks a command squad is well worth it. It's getting a tad off-topic, but if you don't mind me asking, how would you kit out said command squad with the CC Captain? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2168809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 On the whole, I think the artificer armor + storm shield combo is absolutely awesome, and at 30 points isn't expensive, considering how great it is. I also think 170 pts for a killer HQ that also unlocks a command squad is well worth it. It's getting a tad off-topic, but if you don't mind me asking, how would you kit out said command squad with the CC Captain? My command squads either have a powerfist and 4 meltaguns, or a powerfist and 3 plasmaguns. They have their own razorback. The said captain rides in a land raider with 5 th/ss termies keeping him company. I don't think close combat command squad is a great idea. Maybe with khan, but with normal captain, no. If you have a 170 pts captain then you really don't want to drive him around in a non-assault vehicle, and if you get a LR then you really should get termies too. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2169029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougemeister Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I've always wondered by people payed 170pts when for 20pts more you can get the same exact thing but with master crafting and a heavy flamer in the form of Vulkan, obviously a downside would be no command squad. You don't really have to make a melta army around him but he seems even more cost effective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2169106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I've always wondered by people payed 170pts when for 20pts more you can get the same exact thing but with master crafting and a heavy flamer in the form of Vulkan, obviously a downside would be no command squad. You don't really have to make a melta army around him but he seems even more cost effective. I'm a big fan of Vulkan. He's, IMHO, the very best HQ available to C:SM. When I want to make a serious list, I take Vulkan. I use the 170 pts captain because of three reasons; 1) fluff (my own DIY captain is always better fluff-wise for my DIY chapter then a pre-made special character) 2) challenge (a standard captain is a subpar HQ compared to all the special characters, and combat tactics are subpar compared to the chapter tactics available from special characters, hence it makes it more challenging to play with subpar rules) 3) command squads (a fun and efficient unit that can be used in a variety of ways, and is unlocked by having a captain) Bike captain gets another reason to top it off; 4) bike troops! Fun, fluffy, & challenging, all in one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183172-weapon-options-for-captain/#findComment-2169113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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