Requiemnex Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Obviously the Sorcerer can take two spells yes.. However I have skimmed through the book quickly several times trying to find the rule where it says that Mark of Tz allows you to CAST two psychic abilities in a turn. Can anyone confirm this? I was at a gaming store where one of the folks who worked there verified that you can cast Warp Time.. Then winds of chaos.. Then re-roll the wounds for wind of chaos basically making Winds undefendable as he can re-roll wounds on a template with no armor or cover saves... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
bap2703 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 It is at the beginning of Page 88. I can't quote it in English, I have a codex in french. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2167069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vor Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 "A psyker may only attempt to use one psychic power per turn. The only exception to this is a model with the Mark of T. etc etc" It's at the very top of the page that lists the powers. Normal rules of only one shooting attack per turn apply. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2167081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Warp time and Wind of Chaos is great. I run a demon prince with both and a sorceror with both (very expensive but lots of fun). The demon prince is actually cheaper (Prince gets wings, sorceror gets Disk of Tzeentch). But I use the sorceror more often, and having a warptimed forceweapon has killed several IC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2167113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Thanks for the clarity. i see it now.. That is insane... Makes me cry a bit.. Makes me want one.. but it also makes me cry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2167184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shas'o R'Vre Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Also makes Bolt of Change very good at popping Tanks/IC's Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2167280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Also makes Bolt of Change very good at popping Tanks/IC's IC's...yes (If you opponent is dump enough to leave them out of a squad) Popping tanks... reroll to hit, yes. Sz reroll to hit and to wound, sz nothing @ reroll to pen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2167699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The thing is, MoT + Warp Time + BoC = 70 pts for a Prince and 80 pts for a Sorceror. I know several things in the Codex that are more 'killy' that I can take for those points. I have to ask, Does the above combo actually bring anything to the table that more bodies/heavy weapons & special weapons does not? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The thing is, MoT + Warp Time + BoC = 70 pts for a Prince and 80 pts for a Sorceror.I know several things in the Codex that are more 'killy' that I can take for those points. I have to ask, Does the above combo actually bring anything to the table that more bodies/heavy weapons & special weapons does not? In my opinion, no. I'd rather have another Oblit. MoT+Warp Time + WoC on the other hand is worth it. Where else can you get a spell to kill 8-10 models a turn? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Well if you play your cards right... If your Sorc has a disc or wings or your prince has wings... You can leave them back and wait for the person to drop out of a rhino and BOOM... nearly snipe out the entire squad.. I have done this with my obliterators with two lucky Plasma Cannon shots but realistically the odds of the plasma cannon success vs the odds of you taking out 5-10 models with winds is night and day. With winds... You wound on 4+ and can re-roll the ones that dont wound due to warp time. thus giving you somewhere in the 10/15% chance to fail. No cover or armor saves....... Imagine that on a squad of assault marines or raptors.. Or better yet.. 10 khorne zerkers stepping out of a rhino or LR. This also makes quick work of IG and Nid lists because you can stay at range and keep them from holding your unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Well if you play your cards right... If your Sorc has a disc or wings or your prince has wings... You can leave them back and wait for the person to drop out of a rhino and BOOM... nearly snipe out the entire squad.. I have done this with my obliterators with two lucky Plasma Cannon shots but realistically the odds of the plasma cannon success vs the odds of you taking out 5-10 models with winds is night and day. With winds... You wound on 4+ and can re-roll the ones that dont wound due to warp time. thus giving you somewhere in the 10/15% chance to fail. No cover or armor saves....... Imagine that on a squad of assault marines or raptors.. Or better yet.. 10 khorne zerkers stepping out of a rhino or LR. This also makes quick work of IG and Nid lists because you can stay at range and keep them from holding your unit. I once had 2 units of chaos marines get out of their rhinos and fire away into my lines. Then my prince flew up and killed an entire squad with WoC (really lucky rolls on my part), while my Sorceror got half the other squad (he failed his warptime roll). Then the sorceror and friends charged and eliminated the rest. 20 chaos marines killed and all I lost was a few TSons to his shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shas'o R'Vre Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Also makes Bolt of Change very good at popping Tanks/IC's IC's...yes (If you opponent is dump enough to leave them out of a squad) Popping tanks... reroll to hit, yes. Sz reroll to hit and to wound, sz nothing @ reroll to pen. Yeah, but with Str 8 you don't need re-rolls for pen. The thing is, MoT + Warp Time + BoC = 70 pts for a Prince and 80 pts for a Sorceror.I know several things in the Codex that are more 'killy' that I can take for those points. I have to ask, Does the above combo actually bring anything to the table that more bodies/heavy weapons & special weapons does not? Yes, it makes your Daemon Prince both shooty and killy in CC. For example, one time when I was in GW, I saw a DP kill 2 Ork Dreads from range, bust open a battlewagon with BoC and slaughter half the passengers in the ensuing CC, all in the space of 3 turns thanks to the re-rolls from WT. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The thing is, MoT + Warp Time + BoC = 70 pts for a Prince and 80 pts for a Sorceror.I know several things in the Codex that are more 'killy' that I can take for those points. I have to ask, Does the above combo actually bring anything to the table that more bodies/heavy weapons & special weapons does not? Yes, it makes your Daemon Prince both shooty and killy in CC. For example, one time when I was in GW, I saw a DP kill 2 Ork Dreads from range, bust open a battlewagon with BoC and slaughter half the passengers in the ensuing CC, all in the space of 3 turns thanks to the re-rolls from WT. I think it makes said Prince a huge firemagnet/point sink, with fewer threats presented toward the enemy. I'd much rather have those extra models (and wounds!) on the table than put all my eggs in one basket. If you're more into elite/low model count lists I see the benefit of fielding such a beast. However in the scenario above, the same thing could easily have been accomplished by an extra Obliterator or termicide unit. My 2 Kraks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The thing is, MoT + Warp Time + BoC = 70 pts for a Prince and 80 pts for a Sorceror.I know several things in the Codex that are more 'killy' that I can take for those points. I have to ask, Does the above combo actually bring anything to the table that more bodies/heavy weapons & special weapons does not? Yes, it makes your Daemon Prince both shooty and killy in CC. For example, one time when I was in GW, I saw a DP kill 2 Ork Dreads from range, bust open a battlewagon with BoC and slaughter half the passengers in the ensuing CC, all in the space of 3 turns thanks to the re-rolls from WT. I think it makes said Prince a huge firemagnet/point sink, with fewer threats presented toward the enemy. I'd much rather have those extra models (and wounds!) on the table than put all my eggs in one basket. If you're more into elite/low model count lists I see the benefit of fielding such a beast. However in the scenario above, the same thing could easily have been accomplished by an extra Obliterator or termicide unit. My 2 Kraks I used to run the Warptime/BoC prince discussed here. Never found it worth it as I either want my prince assaulting or running if too far away to assault. And when BoC did fire, its not strong enough to really give good odds against anything better than armor 11 or 12. If the reroll worked to pen armor, I might give it a try again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Yeah, but with Str 8 you don't need re-rolls for pen. Yeah, because str 8 only needs a 6 to pen. a pred.....oh wait :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vor Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 If you're more into elite/low model count lists I see the benefit of fielding such a beast.However in the scenario above, the same thing could easily have been accomplished by an extra Obliterator or termicide unit. My 2 Kraks The only problem with that is the Obliterator can die in one hit. At least the DP is an MC and immune to instant death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 If you're more into elite/low model count lists I see the benefit of fielding such a beast.However in the scenario above, the same thing could easily have been accomplished by an extra Obliterator or termicide unit. My 2 Kraks The only problem with that is the Obliterator can die in one hit. At least the DP is an MC and immune to instant death. I don't see that as a problem, it's one more target present. Then again, I've always played with high target saturation/threat in mind. By turning the tables, your opponent can easily isolate your high cost prince and tar-pit/deny it's shots. That's 200+ points rendered useless/dead, as opposed to the 75 pts of the lone Obliterator. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shas'o R'Vre Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Yeah, but with Str 8 you don't need re-rolls for pen. Yeah, because str 8 only needs a 6 to pen. a pred.....oh wait ;) But with Wings, you're hitting side or rear armour 99% of the time, and against AV 10 and 11 :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The only problem with that is the Obliterator can die in one hit. At least the DP is an MC and immune to instant death. But you are not taking about 1 oblit, you are talking about 2.5 oblits for that same 200 pts. You can not compair a single 75 pt oblit to a 200 pt DP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shas'o R'Vre Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The only problem with that is the Obliterator can die in one hit. At least the DP is an MC and immune to instant death. But you are not taking about 1 oblit, you are talking about 2.5 oblits for that same 200 pts. You can not compair a single 75 pt oblit to a 200 pt DP. But the FLEXIBILITY of the Daemon Prince is worth it. Oblits. are slow and purposeful, meaning they can't run round like a winged DP, and can't be in transports. They also cannot shoot AND assault, strike at initiative 1 regardless of what they are using. For 200 pts you can have 2.5 highly specialised inflexible units or one Uber-Powerful, flexible unit that can't be instant-killed. Whilst Oblits. may be useful in certain situations, sometimes NOTHING can best the flexible, infallible furiosity that comes with a Daemon Prince. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 You're misunderstanding me, I'm not saying DP not good option, saying BoC doesn't impress me. IMO there are better options, WoC to be sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2168866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Asmodius Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I played against the warptime/winds combo last night and it can seriously decimate a squad even if they arent that bunched up. And if you can hit a squad with that and another winds then say goodbye to a 10 man squad Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2169428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronWinds Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 But the FLEXIBILITY of the Daemon Prince is worth it. Oblits. are slow and purposeful, meaning they can't run round like a winged DP, and can't be in transports. They also cannot shoot AND assault, strike at initiative 1 regardless of what they are using. For 200 pts you can have 2.5 highly specialised inflexible units or one Uber-Powerful, flexible unit that can't be instant-killed. Whilst Oblits. may be useful in certain situations, sometimes NOTHING can best the flexible, infallible furiosity that comes with a Daemon Prince. Oblits are pretty flexible, that is what they have over every other shooty unit in the game. Nope, can't run around like a DP, but can DS and it is less risky for them(teleport homers, smaller base, smaller cost if they do die), and with so many different weapons with different ranges you don't have to worry about landing as close. They can shoot and assault..... I 1 isn't so bad when your only weapon is a power fist. And I don't think that DP is that flexible. DPs are HtH units primarily. For some extra points you can give them a shoot attack, they are still a HtH monster.... w/ a shooty attack. For 200pts 1 str 8 shot doesn't make him as good at shooting, for 200pts you can get a lot more shooty than that, he is a HtH unit who has a shooting attack. Bezerkers are HtH units that have a shooting attack... no one takes them for their bolt pistols. No one takes a DP for his bolt of change. 2 oblits will always outshoot a DP, a DP will always waste 2 oblits in HtH. Both are pretty specialized. Now I love my DP, not trying to downplay at all, but 1 str 8 shot at 200pts is not flexible IMO. Now WoC is something I do use on my T sorcerer, but BoC is not worth it in most cases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2169672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shas'o R'Vre Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Now I love my DP, not trying to downplay at all, but 1 str 8 shot at 200pts is not flexible IMO. Now WoC is something I do use on my T sorcerer, but BoC is not worth it in most cases. You're right, 1 Str 8 shot at 200pts is not flexible. That isn't the point i'm making. The flexibility comes from allowing the Prince to snipe at vehicles/IC's/Small high toughness/armour save units whilst he advances, the ability to pop open transports from range AND decimate the survivors in assault, and the ability to get broadsides/rear shots on vehicles, then rapidly being able to redeploy elsewhere to either do the same again, assault other units, or anything else he pleases for that matter. He's a flying daemonic lascannon with a high toughness/armor save, immunity to Instant death, a 4+ invulnerable save and that can always shoot and assault. I don't see that anywhere else in the codex (or in any other codex for that matter). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2169744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 He's a flying daemonic lascannon No he is a flying demonic ML. If BoC was str.9, more people would think it was good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183216-mark-of-tz/#findComment-2169780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.