Are Bloodclaws worth it.

[Spacefrisian]

In the previous edition i always used a unit of Bloodclaws for CC but with the new dex i don't feel the need for these guys.

 

They cost the same as a greyhunter have lower BS/WS and are ess flexible than Greyhunters. Yes they do have Berserk Charge but its just 1 more attack on the Charge than Greyhunters and their lower WS means that they receive more hits in CC, and so more will die.

 

Do others feel the same about this or am i the only one?

[eyeslikethunder]

I feel the same but the extra large squads can mean a lot more attacks total 30 to 60 which can be very handy making sure you win combat by such large amount the opponent has to run.

[Grey Mage]

No... most people have been saying exactly what you just did.

 

Ive never been a fan or BCs, but I saw the point before- but now, with the ability to get 3 attacks on the charge with GHs, after shooting the heck out of your opponent for a few turns... and BCs losing the greater countercharge they had, they got hit hard.

 

GHs were already more adaptable and tougher, BCs atleast had pure RAWR on their side... and now theyve been robbed of alot of it- while getting more expensive and losing options. Grey Hunters on the other hand got more impressive, and cheaper, and changed their options with only a slight decrease in overall effectiveness- though the placement is different.

[jamsight]

while I see the rules are against Bloodclaws I just love the little phycho pups I think it was intended to make grey hunters the number one chose because they are meant to be more of them in a company and in the pervoius ed Bloodclaws where the CC bad boys, so ofcoures I only included one unit of grey hunters and took 2 bloodclaws

[Busby]

What I've been looking at doing is putting my Wolf Priest or Ulrik in the squad and wrecking things with rerollable hits. Yep, you can do that with grey hunters, but why? I can now fit -16- models in my LRC. That's 14 BCs, a Wolf Priest, and a Wolf Guard.... At least that's how I plan on testing the new BCs out. :)

[MaleOpener]

They did get hit in stats, but I still love them to death!

 

I'm planning to make a force up of blood/Swift/Sky claws.

 

:)

[Roguemarine]

I have found that normal BC's just fail to compare to what you get for the same points for a grey hunter...ok so you don't get yet another attack when you charge...oh well, you get two special weapons, that you can shoot before you charge WITHOUT a character or WG attached to them, you can buy the best upgrade in the SW book which is the banner, for those who haven't used it yet, you need to try it. and you get a bolter to shoot with...seriously this shouldn't really be a debate.

[Valerian]

I too have decided to opt out of Blood Claws, for the reasons y'all have already covered. I will, however keep the young ones in the army in the form of Swift and/or Sky Claws.

 

V

[The WarpGhost]

BCs got hit with a rare triple whammy; they lost effectiveness in both absolute and relative terms, and they cost more to boot. The only possible reasons to take them I can see are for the 15 wound units and for fluff. Especially given how cheap Skyclaws are (and Fast Attack isnt an oversubscribed slot for SW), there are no other arguments that can be made in their favour.

 

If they could have their full charge bonus from Counter-attack then maybe, but without its a resounding no. For 13th Company players such as myself, the lack of MotW (fortunately present on Skyclaws) is also a factor against.

[Grey Mage]

What I've been looking at doing is putting my Wolf Priest or Ulrik in the squad and wrecking things with rerollable hits. Yep, you can do that with grey hunters, but why? I can now fit -16- models in my LRC. That's 14 BCs, a Wolf Priest, and a Wolf Guard.... At least that's how I plan on testing the new BCs out. :)

Yeah, but that squad is in excess of 600pts....

[Keercrevlis]

I will run one squad of 15 BC with a Runepriest in my LRC. Partly because of the size of the squad and the transport size. This is simply my get in there and mess with my opponents Sqaud covering an objective. The other load out will replace them with a squad of TDA WG. Yes GH are a better squad in general. But to me it is a waste putting GH in a LRC and run across the table to assault an enemy. I think it is still more practical to use the GH sitting back covering objectives and then assaulting incoming squads.

[Ullr Direfang]

i do plan to run more GH squads then BC squads, but i like putting a pack of 15 on the table and people saying "o well they aren't that good in cc" and they leave them alone to charge a GH then they get a big surprise. they a fluffy and i tend to like fluff like armies so i have some for times when i can fit a squad in.

 

i still love my BCs tho.... if they were less points i would run more of them more often.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i didnt use BC before, but now i wont bother with them. the rise in cost and loss of special 1-2 CC weapons per squad size has me pretty much ignoring their entry.

i am trying out some skyclaws though, i think with the good movement and a WP to led them they could make a decent-solid counter attack unit. let the GH take a charge and the BC swarm in after them.

 

WLK

[RedMoon]

i think a 15 man squad in a crusader led by a wolfpriest is a very nasty thing. even though we lose our end all be all of 3 powerfists the volume of hits they put out on the charge with the reroll from the priest is just ridiculous i saw a 10 man squad with a priest wipe a squad of black templar down to just 2 models. i say as long as you have a priest in the squad they are very good at what they do.

[Quillen]

In trueth they are not nearly as usefull as before.

 

 

I would use a SwiftClaw Pack tricked out with a Wolf Gaurd Pack leader. That is 13 wounds at tough 5 with twinlinked bolters and able to throw 4 dice on the charge. Just think about it? Muhahahahaha!

 

 

If you take them put them in a LRC and throw a WGPL and a Wolf Priest they are ok. Sad when you have to say they are ok, not awesome.

 

Basicly I find alot of little things with this codex I do now like.

 

Blood Claws should have been 14 points or 15 but with 2 PowerFists in the Squad. The Grey Hunters are dead on but the Blod Claws lost so much and cost as much as the Grey Hunters. No reason to take them, other then fluff, and then Grey Hunters make up most of the Companies.

[Spacefrisian]

Glad to hear i'am not the only one.

[Hfran Morkai]

They have their uses. Mainly being a large squad with four attacks each on the charge, the lesser WS hardly makes a difference, they still hit a SM captain on a 4+ and BS isn't an issue as you shouldn't really be shooting much with these. Throw in a Wolf Priest and you have a horde killer, consider an ork mob, you don't want it to charge you so you charge it with 15 Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest who chose infantry for the oaths of war.

 

60 Blood Claw Attacks

30 Hit

Re-roll failed

15 more hit

45 hits total

22 Wounds

18 orks dead

 

Then you have the wolf priest's attacks on top of that and that 30 strong mob of orks isn't so scary any more. Grey Hunters don't do that so well because they're generalists therefore they have their uses, even if they're just speed bumps

[Quillen]

I am going to try it with flamers next time. 2 Flamers and bolt pistols before the charge. Just hope the target does not break. And if it does no big deal.

 

Land Raider pulls up. They hop out close to the target and fry it. Then pop a few bolts into them and charge.

[Hfran Morkai]

And in fact you throw in 16 Bolt pistol shots and that's another 3 dead orks.

 

And this is all before they get to attack back, and look, you have a nice 3+ save.

 

Grey Hunter pack for example:

 

10 Grey Hunters with two plasma guns (Choosing a nice new loadout) and pack leader with powerfist

18 Bolter shots at 12 inches or less

9 Hits

4 Wounds

4 Kills

4 Rapid fire plasma shots

2 hit

1 kill

 

So that's on average five dead orks and then they charge you, striking at the same initiative and with higher strength.

 

No look at the same pack on the charge:

30 Attacks

15 hit

7 wound

6 die

3 powerfist attacks

2 hit

2 die

 

You're killing about 8 by my reckoning, not the same is it?

 

People are looking at them wrong, they're perfect against horde armies.

 

I never thought I'd succumb to even basic mathhamer but people need to see they're not useless, just have a niche use.

[Custodian Athiair]

i did my rough math hammer and i came to the conclusions of 15 blood claws charging a 30 man ork boy unit. the Bc would kill them orks in 1 turn of combat! but i think lost 2 in return. ok they didn't kill all the orks at once, but the orks still had 12 models left so were fearless and so had to take a load more saves and would fail most of them.

 

i personally am going to take 3 15 man units, each lead by a character (Ulrik, RP, WGBL), letting them dish out shooting attacks before they charge as well. so they should dish out some pain. meanwhile i have ragnar and hiw wolf guard in a land raider going hel bent for leather at the enemy, willing to take on anything. PLus a swiftclaw pack full to the brim of meltaguns, and a rhino full of grey hunters with flamers, looking to kill shooty units. And then i have another plasma GH unit in a rhino going after objectives.

so i think my BC will have enough models left to really do some damage.

i think they are still really good, ok maybe not as good as GH, overall, but for fluffwise (espically for Ragnar's company) it fits.

 

Athiair :)

[King Tiger]

I use them for several reasons

1: I love the fluff

2: I always did and they did me good (and no I didn't have them loaded with 2 power weapons)

3: I like taking them just to hear whiny little babies crying over how useless they are as they units get munched into pulp by them

[lionofjudah]

havent used them in a game yet but i figure 15 in a LR with a WG is going to be nothing to sneeze at...that and Im keeping fluffy on this army...1 BC squad in a LR, 1 Gh squad in a rhino, 1 WG termi squad in a LR, and theres 1500 and ive got all my bases covered.

[Hotspur]

I use them for several reasons

1: I love the fluff

2: I always did and they did me good (and no I didn't have them loaded with 2 power weapons)

3: I like taking them just to hear whiny little babies crying over how useless they are as they units get munched into pulp by them

 

I like them, too for these reasons. It was always funny to see another player get all bent out of shape when you told them that a ten man squad got 40 attacks on a charge and eight were double S and no save... B)

 

I agree they did get hit pretty hard by the nerfhammer, but I will still use them. Just can't help it.

[Hfran Morkai]

They are still a perfectly viable unit, just we need to be careful with their uses these days, no point throwing them against a carnifex, unless to slow it down for a bit. I say go mob/brood hunting with it, or even mow throw guard platoons.

 

We pay an additional two points for scouts in power armour with four attacks on the charge.

 

Consider it an assault squad without jump packs, that happen to be scoring, but you shouldn't be using them to hold but to wrestle an objective I can see their uses.

[MaleOpener]

1. Four packs of 15 blood claws each.

 

2. Each pack is lead by a wolf guard (TDA, chainfist ).

 

3. Two lone wolves (TDA,SS,chainfist) to fill my last elite slots.

 

4. Vindicators fill my HS slots.

 

 

Still deciding on a Swift/Sky claw mix.

 

 

Am I insane?

 

B) B) ;) :yes: :lol: