Interesting Sternguard Use

[I AM THE AWESOME]

So while pondering over various gunline-type units, I had the idea for the following unit:

 

5 Sternguard, 2 Plasma Cannons, Rhino

 

Which comes to 180 points, scarcely higher than that of a bare-bones 10-man Tactical Squad. The idea is to park the Rhino somewhere in the backfield, open up those Fire Points, and drop 2 plasma templates on an enemy unit per turn, for pretty cheap. They're only 5 points more than the equivalent Devastator squad, and pack several benefits that make them well worth it IMO.

 

Here's the thing, though: the Rhino rarely moves. For the first few turns it sits as a small arms shield, and provides cover for anyone behind it. In the last couple of turns the Rhino rolls up with the Sternguard and claims objectives if Kantor's in the list. It goes without saying that if he's not, you won't move 'em.

 

So my question to you is this: while the unit looks pretty darn good on paper, do you guys think it would carry its weight?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Why not do it with Devastators for cheaper? Since you're shooting out of the rhino the other Sternguard aren't shooting. 25 point bodies can't afford to not shoot. Plus the Dev's Sarge can use the signum for reduced scatter.

 

Overall, I feel using this tactic is wasting the Sternguard's potential. They should be in the face of the enemy, mowing them down with double-taps, not at range putting out shots with heavy weapons while their squadmates chill and sip some beer, waiting for someone to come in range.

[Captain Malachi]

Waste of an elites slot too for bigger games. Like Thrawn I just feel it's a waste of what sternguard can do.

[Deus de Mortalis]

I don't think it's a bad idea. 5 points more than a devastator squad gets you double the attacks in close combat and 3 significantly more deadly bolters.

[I AM THE AWESOME]

Why not do it with Devastators for cheaper? Since you're shooting out of the rhino the other Sternguard aren't shooting. 25 point bodies can't afford to not shoot. Plus the Dev's Sarge can use the signum for reduced scatter.

 

Overall, I feel using this tactic is wasting the Sternguard's potential. They should be in the face of the enemy, mowing them down with double-taps, not at range putting out shots with heavy weapons while their squadmates chill and sip some beer, waiting for someone to come in range.

 

Okay. Let me put this in perspective. I want objective campers. I have Kantor. Devs aren't scoring.

[Deus de Mortalis]

It sounds pretty boss with that added dimension.

[Spazzola]

Overall, I feel using this tactic is wasting the Sternguard's potential. They should be in the face of the enemy, mowing them down with double-taps, not at range putting out shots with heavy weapons while their squadmates chill and sip some beer, waiting for someone to come in range.

 

Okay. Let me put this in perspective. I want objective campers. I have Kantor. Devs aren't scoring.

 

I agree with Thrawn in that they should be in the enemies face. At 25 points per model, I want them doing as much damage and attracting as much heat as they possibly can.

 

Now, looking at your perspective. You want objective campers and you have Kantor. The way you described your SG, you wanted them to hold an objective and harass the enemy. If you're using Kantor, then you're SG should be dropping/driving up and literally ripping the enemy from the objective and making sure they never get it again. Sitting there in a poxy rhino with a couple heavy weapons is a waste in my opinion.

 

Camping is better suited in the hands of Devs and Tacticals because of either the heavy weapons or the relatively low cost. A rhino will only take so many shots, as will a 5 man squad. 10 man Devs/Tacticals have the added bonus of being able to take the extra hits without losing out on too much firepower/cost. I'd rather lose a few lesser costing models to the occasional pot/stray shot than a SG model.

 

But this is all being said without regarding the possibility of other units. What kind of support do you use? Does the enemy have easy access to your camping squad, or do they have to get through tonnes of 10 man SG with all the bells and whistles?

 

Sternguard are (if I remember fluff correctly) meant to plug in gaps. Why not use something like Scouts as objective campers. Enemy are trying to hit a vulnerable spot in your lines, so the SG drop in and remind them that Astartes do not approve of child (trainee) bashing. Or not.

 

Edit: I just realised the SG are to zoom up to the objective towards the end. Still, seems like a bit of a waste and kind of against their intended use.

[Grey Mage]

On the other hand, they have only 1 fewer attack than the 10 man squad as a 5 squad.... and they do a decent job.

 

I wouldnt say no to them, but Id rather have 4 PC out of a ruined building personally.

[Koremu]

Yes, they are an adequate Devastator-replacement (if your opponent won't allow you to correct the glaring error in the Dev Squad listing).

[thade]

Yes, they are an adequate Devastator-replacement (if your opponent won't allow you to correct the glaring error in the Dev Squad listing).

 

To what do you refer?

[waaanial00]

Done this in a number of games, no kantor so they didnt score. They were OK I suppose, 2 plasma templates each turn is pretty decent and the immunity from small arms fire is a good quality in such a small unit. That and its not exactly going to draw a lot of fire because of range and damage output etc.

 

Needless to say though that it has been rotated out of my army. Whenever I play Sternguard its always with combi plasmas and rushing forwards in the Rhino.

 

Sternguard as a Dev might be good but after a while you look at their capabilities and what you are using them for there is a lot of wasted potential.

 

Wan

[Giga]

Okay. Let me put this in perspective. I want objective campers. I have Kantor. Devs aren't scoring.

I think this is a really good idea. ;)

 

That way you could equip both tac squads for short-range encounters, and keep those 5 sternguard in the back, holding a home objective. I'd take it even further and get them a razorback instead. If there's a need for them to hide in a rhino, they can always borrow a rhino from a tactical squad or something.

[Deus de Mortalis]

Camping is better suited in the hands of Devs and Tacticals because of either the heavy weapons or the relatively low cost. A rhino will only take so many shots, as will a 5 man squad. 10 man Devs/Tacticals have the added bonus of being able to take the extra hits without losing out on too much firepower/cost. I'd rather lose a few lesser costing models to the occasional pot/stray shot than a SG model.

I don't think you understand. A 5 man dev squad with 2 plasma cannons costs only 5 points less than a 5 man sternguard squad with 2 plasma cannons. Since that is the case, it kind of nullifies all your arguments. Imagine it as a devastator squad with the option to double the CC attacks and increase the lethality of the bolters as only a 5 point upgrade.

 

Edit: I just realised the SG are to zoom up to the objective towards the end. Still, seems like a bit of a waste and kind of against their intended use.

But they aren't. No unit the codex has some static "intended use."

[Koremu]

Yes, they are an adequate Devastator-replacement (if your opponent won't allow you to correct the glaring error in the Dev Squad listing).

 

To what do you refer?

Their hideous overcosting?

[Vel'Cona]

You could do just about the same thing with a pair (or more) Servitors in a Rhino. If you were going to take a MotF or TFC anyway, it's an interesting way to save a boatload of points. You would, however, lose the combat capacity and a bit of accuracy by comparison, as well as a bit of durability, but again it's at a far cheaper cost.

 

That said, this is actually a solid usage of SG, but mostly in a Pedro army to stack scoring units. Without Hold the Line!, this becomes a slightly less impressive choice.

[Chengar Qordath]

Yes, they are an adequate Devastator-replacement (if your opponent won't allow you to correct the glaring error in the Dev Squad listing).

 

To what do you refer?

Their hideous overcosting?

Costs are more-or-less the same as they've always been for Devastators.

[chapter master 454]

Yes, they are an adequate Devastator-replacement (if your opponent won't allow you to correct the glaring error in the Dev Squad listing).

 

To what do you refer?

Their hideous overcosting?

Costs are more-or-less the same as they've always been for Devastators.

 

If I remember correctly, alot of the old timers remember days back in 3rd where devastors ruled the table from UNDERPRICING, they got hit by overpricing and despite the fan out-cry GW refuses to lower the points even by 5. Devastors: unless you can't take any other choice in HS, then all they will do is devastate your points budget -saracastic slapping of the knee-

[Koremu]

Yes, they are an adequate Devastator-replacement (if your opponent won't allow you to correct the glaring error in the Dev Squad listing).

 

To what do you refer?

Their hideous overcosting?

Costs are more-or-less the same as they've always been for Devastators.

They cost too much for the effect. Predators, Land Speeders, Sternguard and even Razorbacks provide better value for firepower. Unless you can guarantee the availability of Fortifications, Devs are not worth taking.

 

In Planetstrike as well, they claim objectives.

 

So yeah, Devastators. Only worth taking if you are defending a fortress.

 

You could do just about the same thing with a pair (or more) Servitors in a Rhino. If you were going to take a MotF or TFC anyway, it's an interesting way to save a boatload of points. You would, however, lose the combat capacity and a bit of accuracy by comparison, as well as a bit of durability, but again it's at a far cheaper cost.

 

Except that you can't take a Rhino as a dedicated transport for a MotF, TCC or Techmarine.

[minigun762]

5 Sternguard, 2 Plasma Cannons, Rhino

 

Not a bad idea. 2 Plasma blasts is definately some decent firepower. I'm worried that 5 non-Fearless guys isn't alot to guard an objective, but you are hiding in a Rhino which is some protection.

 

Still, if I was fighting you, I'd probably prefer to see this over a 10 man Tactical squad as I only have 1/2 the bodies to munch through and Sternguard die like normal Marines.

[Deus de Mortalis]

days back in 3rd where devastors ruled the table from UNDERPRICING, they got hit by overpricing and despite the fan out-cry GW refuses to lower the points even by 5. Devastors: unless you can't take any other choice in HS, then all they will do is devastate your points budget -saracastic slapping of the knee-

 

I wouldn't say that devastators were underpriced, just that they were a viable option unlike today. This was because they were a little less costly, play was a lot more static / single-dimensional, heavy weapons were more potent against vehicles, and a 10 man squad was a whole lot more survivable than a tank.

[Spazzola]

Camping is better suited in the hands of Devs and Tacticals because of either the heavy weapons or the relatively low cost. A rhino will only take so many shots, as will a 5 man squad. 10 man Devs/Tacticals have the added bonus of being able to take the extra hits without losing out on too much firepower/cost. I'd rather lose a few lesser costing models to the occasional pot/stray shot than a SG model.

I don't think you understand. A 5 man dev squad with 2 plasma cannons costs only 5 points less than a 5 man sternguard squad with 2 plasma cannons. Since that is the case, it kind of nullifies all your arguments. Imagine it as a devastator squad with the option to double the CC attacks and increase the lethality of the bolters as only a 5 point upgrade.

 

Edit: I just realised the SG are to zoom up to the objective towards the end. Still, seems like a bit of a waste and kind of against their intended use.

But they aren't. No unit the codex has some static "intended use."

 

I understand all too well that the squad will have a decent effectiveness. I understand that 2 plasma templates will do plenty of damage, and that the SG have CC and bolter advantages. I also understand the point costs. But what I am trying to get at with that point is bodies .

 

What good are those extra attacks if the model gets topped before it can use them? A Sternguard and a 'normal' Marine have the same durability. For an extra 9 points, we suddenly see the inclusion of an extra attack and some spiffy ammo (which will probably not be used too often. I.e. if the unit is inside the Rhino, or if they are being picked off with longer ranged weaponry). I will admit, in comparing to a Devastator squad, choose the Sternguard. But I personally just see Tactical squads are more effective in the holding department.

 

10 Tacticals means 1 death is -1A

5 Sternguard means 1 death is -2A

Same CC potential as a whole (receiving a charge), but the Sternguard deteriorate far more rapidly.

Shooting, well, the 2 Plasma Cannon shots over 1. I can see how the Sternguard have effectiveness there, but those 2 models are also more likely to take a hit.

 

It does come down to personal choice, but I'd rather the Tacticals sitting back - just for the weight of numbers - and have the Sternguard using every member, not just mainly the two Plasma Cannons.

 

Next point. True, no unit in the codex has a specific 'intended use'. Once again, personal choice. I like a bit of fluff with my games, but we each craft our own fluff. So you could easily argue that your use of the Sternguard is fluffy for your force.

 

Just know, I am not trying to say "No. Cruddy idea. Scrap it and have a cry." Rather, I am expressing my view of your use of the Sternguard. I can see the advantages of using that 5 man squad in that way, but I also see the disadvantages. Depending on your opponent, the terrain, the situation at the time, etc, this squad will either shine, perform to a mediocre standard or get obliterated. But my main gripe is with the size (or lack there of) of the squad.

[DerekLee688]

To be honest I did it to get two Cheap Lascannons that took care of a dread in a small points game. However, in a larger point game I roll with a Land Raider, vindi, and shortly a pread, unless I buy an elite to stuff that LR I'm tapped out on Heavy slots. In that case a Sternguard squad is a nice sub for that dev. squad I can't have.

[greatcrusade08]

Id rather use 2 heavy flamers and use the rhino as a make shift immolator (thats more destructive).. if they get out they are still hard enough to fight through most opponents.

 

Gc08

[glsn]

If you're buying them for Heavy Flamers, you might as well buy PAGK with incinerators. You have to get the Rhino elsewhere, and can't start in it, but if you're going to have them close enough to use the Heavy Flamers it's better to have the PAGK close combat ability, rather then fancy ammo.