Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Hi, I was wondering, do any of you have problems finding people willing to play your pure grey knights, at my local everyone seems to think their broken, particually my Terminators, hear is my 1500pt army list and do any of you have a similar problem? HQ Grey Knight Grand Master Valdor with Pcycannon and Icon of the Just Retinue of 7 Grey Knight Terminators with 1 Incinerator TROOPS Grey Knight Squad of 8 grey knights and 1 justicar, 2 pcycannons Grey knight squad of 7 Grey Knights with 1 justicar, 1pcycannon, 1 Incinerato HEAVY SUPPORT Grey Knight Land Raider Grey knight Dreadnought Hugh de Payns with Plasma Cannon, Incinerator, Blessed and Extra Armour Thats it, I try to stick to fluff, but is my list Broken? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183427-what-do-non-gk-players-think-of-them/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibious Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I see no reason why someone would not want to play you? The 7 Term + GM is more of a big basket challenge. -Gib- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183427-what-do-non-gk-players-think-of-them/#findComment-2169339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Hi, I was wondering, do any of you have problems finding people willing to play your pure grey knights, at my local everyone seems to think their broken, particually my Terminators, hear is my 1500pt army list and do any of you have a similar problem? 'Everyone' would be defined as idiots dude. No reasonable player would define pure Grey Knights as broken. Our units are overpriced, die just as easily as regular Marines, and have little anti-tank. In these days of ninja assaults (Outflank etc) and mechanised armies, thats a huge problem. I would suggest that it's not your army thats broken, it's their craptastic armies and strategy. It takes very little in the way of unit selection (I've had my backside handed to me by people's display armies, nevermind powergamers) or even strategy (hey, if I shoot them they still die like regular Marines), and you can handily beat pure Grey Knights. HQGrey Knight Grand Master Valdor with Pcycannon and Icon of the Just Retinue of 7 Grey Knight Terminators with 1 Incinerator TROOPS Grey Knight Squad of 8 grey knights and 1 justicar, 2 pcycannons Grey knight squad of 7 Grey Knights with 1 justicar, 1pcycannon, 1 Incinerato HEAVY SUPPORT Grey Knight Land Raider Grey knight Dreadnought Hugh de Payns with Plasma Cannon, Incinerator, Blessed and Extra Armour Your army is very characterful, but it fails several critical tests in terms of 5th edition; - Eggs in one basket: True LOS means its next to impossible to hide things now, and the trend in 5th edition is towards new codicies getting plenty of dakka-heavy options over quality low-AP. As such, if you invest about 1/3rd of your army in a single hammer unit (the GM+friends), it's laughably easy to concentrate fire on them and remove your only real threat. Likewise, that single Raider and single Dreadnought make anti-tank priorities far too easy for the enemy. Meltas go onto the Raider, everything else onto the Dreadnought. There are no transports or even another Raider to dilute this tactic. - Scoring units: 2/3rds of the time, you'll win by having more scoring units on objectives than the enemy. This mandates at least 3 Troops units in an army, with many armies typically taking 4 for redunancy. More than that is waste (and in the case of pure GK, impossible in smaller games). Again, eggs in one basket comes back to bite you, because you only have two scoring units, and they have no transports or other units to soak fire onto. All the enemy has to do to win in objective games is to kill two squads. Once they've done that, you've already lost. - Staying power: Grey Knights will always suffer from this problem, but by overspending on your HQ unit, you've made it hard to expand your force so you can take some hits and keep going. It's just too fragile (hence why I've given up on pure GK and I'm taking Guard and SoB to bolster my forces). I'd keep playing with it (I can only offer suggestions, it's your army), but I think your opponents will wise up to how Grey Knights work and quickly develop counter-strategies. It's not exactly Creed-worthy to work out that ordnance, some meltaguns and even one decent assault unit can kill you, and thats not even taking into account the other stuff armies can bring (because unlike you, their units don't each cost 250pts+). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183427-what-do-non-gk-players-think-of-them/#findComment-2169410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 lol@Daemonhunters being broken. Ahahahaha You have about 5 viable entires in the Army list to choose. The entire army depends on being able to control spacing to win. It doesn't rely on using combinations of units to get super results. Just good generalship. And against armies with lots of cheap Melta and Plasma we get beat. And your army list isn't even a particularly strong build for GK anyway! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183427-what-do-non-gk-players-think-of-them/#findComment-2169416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Wow. I never thought I'd ever see people complain that GKs were too powerful! :woot: What everybody else said. Your gaming opponents are just not very good. And as also pointed out, even for a pure GK list you could stand to make several improvements. But I would say this. If you are able to continue crushing face with your pure GKs. Do so. And -- assuming you are interested in improving the quality of your opposition so the games will be more fun and challenging -- try and educate them about how easy it would be to alter their lists to fight you. It sounds to me like you are the first person to figure out that mech is actually good! And if a single land raider is confounding your opponents, you've all got a long way to go to actually follow that obvious observation to its equally obvious conclusion. Which is: everybody else should be meching up with you! And they should be bringing along AP 1 weaponry to pop enemy mech as well! Check out this topic for how this relates to the DH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183427-what-do-non-gk-players-think-of-them/#findComment-2169551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I can't imagine an enviornment where pure GK is considered too powerful or cheesy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183427-what-do-non-gk-players-think-of-them/#findComment-2169554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon_77 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I can't imagine an enviornment where pure GK is considered too powerful or cheesy. I think the term for such a place is "Utopia" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183427-what-do-non-gk-players-think-of-them/#findComment-2169671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 A land of milk, honey and melta weapons that only roll 1d6 for penetration Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183427-what-do-non-gk-players-think-of-them/#findComment-2169682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Swas Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Yeah. Especially with 5th being the Vehicle Edition, most people are packing enough anti-tank weaponry to take out your entire army. Tau and Ig would have a field day, especially, with the amount of high-strength shots the tau can put out and the amount of las/melta/plas an ig army should be taking. Not to mention mech IG, who would laugh once the landraider died. 7/10. It was almost believable that such a mythical place exists under 5th rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183427-what-do-non-gk-players-think-of-them/#findComment-2172656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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