Wolfwing lists, tactics and discussion

[Oldenhaller]

Wolf Guard units count as Troops in any army that includes Logan Grimnar

 

Simples

 

~O

[thade]

Eep, I found it. It's in Logan's entry in the Army List, not in his fluffy entry.

 

(Thanks, Oldenhaller. =)

[Sandokann]

I would definetly ad 6 Long Fangs with multimelta to the army in a pod with logan, imo is the best use for his skills, also get a WG as pack leader so u get a SS there and a aditional chain fist.

[krewl]

Well, almost done now. I badly injured my wrist again this weekend, so typing is not as fast as it used to be. (Repetative straing injury comming up again, so now I can hardly lift my son who is only 8 months old...)

 

I added the support part (dreads, LR's and lone wolfs) and sample army lists for 1000 and 1500 which I've kept a bit open ended so can choose a style you like yourself. If people want more specific exact army lists, let me know and I'll cook up a batch instead of the general advice I gave now.

 

Still to do now:

Sample 1700 3 Landraider list, with optional what to pick at 2000 idea's.

Sample 1700/1750 and 2000 footslogger lists.

 

After those I think that the content is done, updates based on ideas from other noth withstanding.

 

Is this topic fleshy enough to add to the librarium later or do you need more for that (I know it needs a spellcheck and some mark up with the fancy B&C features) I mean in content, so that I can add that. I did a lot of work so far, I'd hate for it to dissapear to page 215 on the wolf forum... It's already on page 4 and I was just away for one weekend. :D

 

Also @ Sandokann and others, you are free to include whatever you like in your lists, but at the moment I am making lists that fit the Deathwing army pattern, so they include only;

- Models in terminator army,

- Dreadnoughts

- Landraiders

- Drop pods.

 

Feel free to change and discuss other things based on my ideas and lists (like Thunderwolf Cavalery, I know you want to, and I even see that they could really add to taking the fire off the TDA models in suchs a list.) but these are not what I was looking for, as I was simply looking at a way to play my deathwing with up to date rules.

 

** Note, I think I see that I forgot about drop pods. Sadly I have no idea how a drop pod list would work well in this sort of army yet, I have not played any pod lists myself, so I am hardly the one to know many good strategies for a drop pod list.

[Ceres]

As to kick some beat to the topic, I'll be playtesting the

following non-wing units:

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry

Lone Wolves

Fenrisian Wolves

 

I don't know about the TWC though, they might prove

to be too expensive compared to the terminators, but

I do see their mobility and draw-fire aspects.

 

Lone Wolves are kinda cool I think, emo as I am, and

furthermore, there is the added bonus on putting some

cool wolves to the army.

 

Fenrisian Wolves.. their cool, but I can only see them

used an (expensive) cover for the terminators.

 

 

On my current list, I've started to use triple predators,

which to honest, are the most cost-efficient choice any

day. They provide some nice cover to the Terminators

long range anti-infantry fire support and are only 85 a

pop. Marvelous little things.

[krewl]

I feel there is no reason not to include lone wolves in your army (I discussed them a bit in the units I feel could be used in a Deathwing type list) as they are in terminator armour you could make them something like a lone knightly crusader on a quest for vengeance or penneance (Spelling?) I feel lone wolfs certainly have a place in a deathwing type list.

 

If the lone wolf has fenrissian wolves and you want to keep the Dark angel feel to your list you could model Watchers in the dark (Small robed & hooded characters) supporting his mighty quest. I don't think I would do units of wolves though, but that is a matter of taste.

 

Also remember that a "Deathwing list" is just a limit you put onto yourself if you feel like it. You don't need to do that at all.

It is just that I jumped onto the SW codex when I realised that instead of feeling sorry the Wolves got all "my" toy's there was nothing to stop me from using that set of rules to have the Deathwing list I knew and loved.

 

So the only reason I would limit myself is that the deatwing army's of old (3rd edition) had a description of which units they could take, beeing:

 

HQ's in terminator armour (Fit's a lone hero type like the Lone Wolf fine I'd say)

Terminator armoured squads as troops.

Dreadnoughts

Landraiders

 

GW has changed the way the DW works now, but these rules bring the older playstyle pack with great flexibility.

If you feel Thunderwolf cavalery is cool for your army go for it, my limit's are just arbitrary, I won't come over and pound you on the head with a big rulebook if you break them :)

 

You could even keep the Deathwing Ravenwing feel if you replace the thunderwolf mount. Not with a huge lion, I'd feel that would not work so wel (Again personal preference) but with a conversion modelled on a bike front with driver, and a raised platform with armour plating (Think roman war charriots here) with a Marine with a Lance type weapon on it. (Heck I might even go with that somewhere in the future (as if I'd find the time) but I love the idea.

[asmodai650]

This definitely needs to be stickied, or put in the librarium. Very well written out, and thought out. Job's a good 'un!

[HsojVvad]

Back to where it says WG counts as Troops when Logan is taken. So this means you can only have 6 squads of WG correct. Since they count as troops they can't be taken as Elites correct?

[Heimdal]

outdated answer. deletee

[Bartali]

A couple of points :-

 

- Best psychic defence in the game (only limited by the 24" range) better that the 5/12th a Marine gets.

 

I'd argue that the Eldar's Runes of Warding is better. The chance of shutting down a power isn't as good as Njal's (50% vs 66%), but it's unlimited range and more importantly has a 50% chance of causing a perils. Plus, Runes are available to any Farseer, not just the special character.

 

Secondly (and this has been debated to death elsewhere), there's a huge difference between Belial and Logan and that's in points. In Deathwing I can field Belial + one of an Int.Chappy, Libby or Dreadnought for the same cost as Logan

[Isiah]

Krewl this is a fantastic bit of work and gives much to think about to the non-Wolf ;).

 

As I mentioned in the DA section – if you intend to minic the Deathwing with Wolfwing then consideration of deepstriking is essential and so an entire drop pod army, or at least some drop-podding units, is a facet of the whole picture – though in truth this is maybe only really viable in larger games.

 

For starters unlike footslogging WG, termy squads in pods will be restricted to 5-man max (or 4 +1 IC, 3 + 2 ICs) which could have a bearing on weapon selection – for instance no heavy flamer, ac or cyclone in the 4 or 3-man squads. This isn't such a handicap with so many combi-weapons the WGTs have available to make up some of the shortfall. Interestingly it looks like most people in this topic are looking at 5-man or 10-man squads anyways presumably to maximise on the weapon upgrades.

 

There is an 2500 Wolfwing podding army here as an example, not saying it's the way to go with it as I'm nowhere near expert enough to comment on it specifically and it needs more playtesting to get the best maybe, but just to give you a flavour.

 

In addition, the Lone Wolf, I think one rôle for him might be a faux Company Champion – not entirely DA-fluffy in Deathwing context (:cuss) but an interesting 'in' to field one.

 

OK looking forwards to more comments on your ideas.

 

Cheers

I

[krewl]

A couple of points :-

 

- Best psychic defence in the game (only limited by the 24" range) better that the 5/12th a Marine gets.

 

I'd argue that the Eldar's Runes of Warding is better. The chance of shutting down a power isn't as good as Njal's (50% vs 66%), but it's unlimited range and more importantly has a 50% chance of causing a perils. Plus, Runes are available to any Farseer, not just the special character.

 

Secondly (and this has been debated to death elsewhere), there's a huge difference between Belial and Logan and that's in points. In Deathwing I can field Belial + one of an Int.Chappy, Libby or Dreadnought for the same cost as Logan

 

True, Belial and Logan are not in the same league, but then again, they are not meant to be compaired, as they have suchs different point levels it would be like compairing apples and flamers. Both have a use, but they are very dissimilar. :) The only thing they really have in common is that they are mandatory for TDA troops.

 

Logan is the better character on a model per model basis, but the points difference makes Belial a good choice anyway. In a DW list he adds CC ability to a unit when joining them, and he is no slouch in CC althouhg he suffers from lack of eternal warrior and no 4+ inv. save. Against rank and file he is great though, and you should use him as suchs. He is no character killer, know this and use him elsewhere if possible. But with points left to add an interrogator chaplain it balances out pretty well. Also very important is that he unlocks a terminator apothecary (unique in the game) and the DW banner wich makes a unit that much more choppy and killy (Starting to sound like an Ork now).

 

Logan is another story as he is very tough, I'd not take him solo against e.g. a hyve tyrant if I could choose, but he has a proper chance to do him in even though it's risky. Belial would just be chopped up unless he rolls very lucky. Also Logan boosts the unit he is with and flexible at that adding value at range and up close and in CC.

 

Regarding the psychic defense, I meant best in the context of power armoured lists, as this is a power armour board ;). I agree that the unlimited range on the eldar runes does make it better in a lot of circumstances, in others the 4+ (Or 3+ on Njal) will be better.

 

@Isiah

I know I have nothing on drop pods yet, I'll look into it but as I statet on the DA forum, I have no pods (yet?) so I have no experience playing pods. So I can add that to the post, but it would be a very theoryhammer type of thing.

Minus on the drop pods is that it's X times a lot of points, and podding 5 to 7 units (On a 1700 pts level) is effectively costing you a unit of termies and termies are already outnumbered a lot. So I am somewhat averse against adding more and more thinks that take away from my troops. As noted when podding you also lose some heavy weapons when you add a character as pods have a 5 TDA limit. Again not something I'd like a lot.

 

It is an interesting thing to do though, and a sneaky trick I have though about would be adding Njal in a pod and keeping him in reserve. then he'd drop turn 2+ keeping him alive for the later damaging effects his passive ability would have. Having a pod with him and 4 WG in it would enable you to drop the pod right smack in the middle where it will maximise damage. Imagine him podding in late (by change offcourse and dropping well :P The carnage ....)

Then again, I am averse to using a very expensive character as a gimmick, and I would miss the other powers and usage he would offer the rest of the game. As I stated I plan that if I have Njal he'll be joined to a squad as protection, and I think that should keep him safer aswell, while I still have full use for his powers and Rune staff.

[jon23516]

Good work Krewl,

 

I too wrote up a "Wolfwing" list soon after getting the book.

 

Here's what I ended up with for 1995 points:

 

HQ:

Logan Grimnar

 

Troops:

5 Wolf guard (4 TDA, 1 PA), 4 Frost weapons, 1 Heavy Flamer, 1 Chainfist

5 Wolf guard (4 TDA, 1 PA), 4 Frost weapons, 1 Heavy Flamer, 1 Chainfist

5 Wolf guard (4 TDA, 1 PA), 4 Frost weapons, 1 Heavy Flamer, 1 Chainfist

5 Wolf guard (5 PA), Landraider Godhammer dedicated transport

 

Heavy Support:

Landraider Crusader

Landraider Crusader

Landraider Crusader

 

Scoring Godhammer sits on your own objective and destroys enemy armor while 3 Crusaders advance on one half of enemy army and tear them up with Logan popping off Living Legend on the proper turn.

 

Untested, but fun to write up and giggle about.

[SamaNagol]

Logan with a unit of Long Fangs is a colossal waste of time. Especially drop podding ones. It's a gimmick and should be avoided.

[jon23516]

Logan with a unit of Long Fangs is a colossal waste of time. Especially drop podding ones. It's a gimmick and should be avoided.

 

Care to expound on that? Details? Examples?

[SamaNagol]

You will slag at most 2 vehicles. And then you will die next turn, Logan will be left out on his own and will get stripped down by massed fire too as he only has a 4+ invulnerable. Best case scenario it is an pretty expensive suicide unit. You are better off doing a similar job with 2 separate units of Wolf Guard with combi meltas, which also count as scoring amongst their other uses after their initial impact.

[Gentlemanloser]

Currently, by RAW, they all use Dread bases.

 

As you have to use the base the mini was supplied with, and the only Thunderwolf Mini is Canis (and they say don't try to put him on a larger base... lol!).

 

Most guys I play with would like to se them on Cavalry sized bases though, and not Dread bases.

[Trunks2560]

It has been a long time since I last posted here, but the idea of a "Wolfwing" really has me excited.

 

 

There are a ton of options for a list like this, but one of them that hasn't been mentioned is the availability of non-raider transports for your wolf guard. It is a bit out of the box, but WG have a ton of upgrades available and one of those is the ability to take Rhino's and Razorbacks as transports. While I understand that you can't put the Terminators in the transports, there is nothing stopping you from taking them as mobile bunkers. Razorbacks present a really interesting choice as they give you greater access to long rang fire support. It is a little WWI, but I think using cheap transports like this is kind of a novel idea. Heck, a basic Razorback at 40pts is about the same cost as a terminator and gives you twin-linked heavy bolter.

 

I don't know how good this would be in practice as I have been out of the game for quite a bit, but I think we are doing ourselves a disservice by approaching this paradigm with Death Wing stuck in our heads. I agree that if we go too far afield we're just making a space wolf army with terminators in it, however, I think there are a lot of good options that should be considered even if there is no DW equivalent.

 

Plus, when the heck would the sons of Russ ever take advice from a Dark Angel?! :P

[Whamolla]

Has anyone had any experience trying to add some TWC into one of these lists?

 

I've got a 1500 point Logan and Njal list that I'm working on - not much different than some of the ideas listed above. I was thinking TWC may be nice at 1750, or perhaps dropping a squad of WG.

 

Thoughts?

[farseerixirvost]

But I still am unclear on wording as to how "counts as" means that they use a troop slot. In Codex: Space Marines on page 130 in Kor'sarro Khan's entry:

 

Mounted Assault: If Kor'sarro Khan rides Moondrakkan, Space Marine Bike squads of at least five models may be taken as Troops Choices.

 

For comparison, in Codex: Space Wolves on page 82 in Logan Grimnar's entry:

 

The Great Wolf: Wolf Guard units count as Troops in any army that includes Logan Grimnar.

 

It is because of "taken as" verses "count as" that, to me, means that they still use the Elite Force Organization spot. I also understand that GW does change wording often, but I really do need to see and FAQ before I will actually use it.

 

Back to where it says WG counts as Troops when Logan is taken. So this means you can only have 6 squads of WG correct. Since they count as troops they can't be taken as Elites correct?

 

I think the key word in the Kor'sarro rule is MAY. Bikes MAY be taken as troops. Or they MAY be taken as Fast Attack.

 

Logan, on the other hand, makes WG units Troops. They cannot be fielded as Elites, only as troops.

 

So HsojVvad, yes, max WG units in a Logan army = 6.

 

 

Krewl, thanks for the excellent info, it helps a fellow working his way into a Logan Terminator Army (another old-school Deathwing player looking for a little bit more excitement).

[hmk17]

A little Threadomancy to bring back a decent idea.

 

So how have the ideas changed based on the current playing field.

[Whamolla]

I'm glad this has been resurrected.

 

I've been running a list with 4 squads of WG in TDA, a drop pod, Logan, and Njal.

 

The only update I have is that I've decided to try and pull Njal and remove a few WG in exchange for a LRR and a Vindicator. Njal's group of 5 WG was getting targetted and wiped out pretty quickly. He either needs to hang way back (thus sidelining 5 WG), sit in armor (where his Tempest ability doesn't work), or walk around in a crew of WG 10-deep (possibly doable, but I think it might be too much in a 1500 point list). With everyone in TDA and footslogging, I shouldn't be surprised. I'm hoping the high armor value of the LRR will provide some protection and the vindi is there to mess up their target priorities and hopefullly get a shot or two off while they are dealing with my droppod.

 

Next I'm going to toy with rune priests or perhaps a 2 LRR list.

[LoneSniperSG]

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it! I knew Logan made Troops Terminators. Ohhhh man.. someone is going to feel the hurt now.

[Grimtooth]

From what I have read the past couple of days, LoganWing armies did pretty good at Ard Boyz.

[Polonius]

I took a loganwing to my ardboys, and while it wasn't the toughest competition in the world, I ended up taking first. If nothing else, the lack of Dawn of War and the third scenario gave my list a huge bump. I ran:

 

Logan

Rune Priest w/Jaws and Lightning

3x Lone Wolves w/ Chainfist and Storm Sheild

3x 10 WGT: 2x cml, 2x ss, 2xCF, 1xcombi melta

5 WGT, heavy flamer, 4x combi melta, chain fist, Pod

4x TWC, SS, TH, MB

 

It's a pretty simple premise: shoot with the missiles until you get into combat.