Wolfwing lists, tactics and discussion

[krewl]

Hey nice to see my old topic back.

 

I was actually musing on posting my experiences but to be honest the response to this topic was a bit "un-overwhelming" for the ammount of work I put in it.

 

Let's see what people feel about loganwings now that the dex has been arround a bit.

I also let go of the all terminators idea in my list, as I needed to fill up my list and I did not have enough termies with the right arms finished. Now I've grown used to them they are a stayer in my list. :P

 

So without firther ado, my current wolf list (1700 points)

 

Logan

Njal

 

10 men WGT, 2 x CML, 2x SS, 2 x Powerfist

5 men WGT, 4 x combi-plasma, 1 x CML, drop pod

5 men WGT, 5 x combi melta, 1 x CML, drop pod

6 Long fangs, 5 x Missile launcher, drop pod.

 

22 termies, 6 power armoured. Not "Pure" as in Deathwing, but still 20 termies, 2 termie characters and extra missile launchers.

 

Why the pods? I started playing with just foot sloggers, but the just walking meant I had to start slogging to objectives in T1, even if I did not yet take out Ap1 and AP2 threats. so that did not really work. That where the pods enterI can use them to park 2 scoring termie squads on targets, or just use the pods for safe deep strikes somewhere, or even use them as terrain and block/contest something. taking the 13 Missile launcher shots this list brings, and then blocking return fire from part of the enemy with the pods makes for severly lessened return fire and thus less/no casualties.

 

If podding, Logan rides with the long fangs, joined by one CML termie from the small squads. (Which depends on idf I plan to suicide the plasma of melta unit near a tank/landriader. The other pod now has room for Njal if needed.

So on mission wher HQ's are victory conditions I have an oppertunity to hide them away from alfa strikes, while still having the option of them beeing on the table T1 due to drop pod assault. I also sometimes deploy everything (Killpoints missions) and drop all pods empty.

 

Logan uses relentless with the missile launchers giving me a drop pod somewhere podding 7 missile launchers who can target 2 bit's of rear armour (Or a MC) from a direction negating any cover. And they can just keep on moving, or I also often mopve them into a terrain bit for a good fireline and move Logan to the 10 men termie unit. Despite the firepower this unit can dish out they tend to be the one I sacrifice the most in games as they do not score.

 

Njal and his 3+ block ability has so far (In games I played) been priceless. I'd almost say that alone is worth the landraider and a bit pricetag.... 2 dropping hive tyrants at 8/6"from my lines, both casting paroxism (BS1 and WS1 for a whole game turn...) and Njal going "I SAID NO!"and the tyrant shut up... after which I proceded with the powerfisting etc. (Again where Logan helps a lot. Fearless on your enemy's turn, prefered enemy on your turn. Make those fists hit something..

Several lances @ ap1 being negated, Eldrad going "Fortun... oh crap" and then the seer coucil can die to SB fire.. loveley.

 

Several times Njal lives to the end of the game, and his S8 and S9 hist are a sight to behold. I find his psychic powers are not used though against nids (Only if they stay away) because of Shadow in the warp. Same for Eldar with their runesomething stones. 3D6 for powers does not make you wanna gamble a 2 wounds character. but as this is Njal he has a passive ability which hurts in the end game, people tend to take notice after you spread the D6 S8 hits around without casting. And offcourse I pulled off JotWW once on a tervignon who went plop... (Joy)

 

The big block of acts like an anchor in my list they start on the table 99% of the time, and the enable me to start the game with a huge troops unit on the table, safe to deploy my HQ's in. Logan in this unit can also give tankhunters for effectively S9 against tanks (4 shots) also not to shabby. Add Njal and he also has D6 S8 shots on the same target. Even a landriader would be a target you can try to take out (If there's nothing better around.)

 

All those missile launchers make horde armies wonderfull. just drop your 13 frag templates at 72", then wait for up close where you add a ton of stormbolter shots on what's left. Did I mention counter attack & sitting in cover? Means you often hit first (With powerweapons) and counterattack makes that only slightly less effective then charging.

 

All in all I like this list, it's been doing well for me even though it's not as hard as it could be if you min max without any theme idea in it.

 

I'd love to hear other people's opinions and examples of wolf guard lists. (Loganwing seems to be an established name now, so I'll stick with that, sorry to the guy who did not want the wing thing inhere earlier in the thread.)

 

@ Polonius, could you add some more detail? I'd love something with some highlight's, strong points and weak spots you ran into. (I'd love 2500 points tournaments here in the Netherlands, but sadly they are not here.)

[Polonius]

I've only played the list at 2500, as I'm not sure it scales down nearly as well as it plays at the higher points. I take the lone wolves because they provide an excellent suicide unit that can actually do some damage, and can hold up a lot of lighter units for a couple of turns. I may experiment with splitting two of the ten man units into five man units to see if that changes things. The drop pod combi-melta unit is worth it's weight in gold, never yet failing to knock out an enemy tank on the landing. It also ties up an enemy unit for a turn to deal with the squad, so they've yet to survive.

 

The thunderwolf cavalry is about as awesome as people say, I'm just not completely sold on the synergy with the termies. I think that from a pure gaming perspective, swapping that unit for two long fang squads would be wise.

 

My list did struggle to gain objectives, only drawing in mission one of hard boys. part of that was due to very bad luck, but part of it was due to the list simply not having the ability to both hold home base objectives while storming the enemy.

 

I looked hard at Njall, but I think that msot of the time you'd be better served by two small rune priests instead of him. YMMV.

 

My first incarnation had no combi-meltas on the big WGT squads, that was a mistake as it left me no reliable way to pop landraiders that got too close.

 

In general, from a purely gaming perspective, I think that the list should be built around Logan, a Rune priest, a 10 man squad, maxed long fangs, and the rest spent on WGTs. Long fangs add a lot of synergy to the list.

[krewl]

Njal so far has proven worth it for me because he has that passive ability and the 3+ nullify.

That alone saved me a couple of times, so much that I'd say I he's worth it (And I play at 1700, so points are even scarcer there).

 

The lone wolves are on my painting table, I have one with Chainfist, one with Thunderhammer. Do you think I should use only a chainfist because the thunderhammer also hits MC's and such for hitting only on I1 next round. So with a T-hammer you have a decent chance living true a CC with say a canifex or a tyrant. (Not very good, but stuill a chance that would work.)

 

The Long fangs with missile launchers are just great, 7 shots, and still moving works like a charm. Even without Logan (E.g. in mission where I can deploy them T1 in good cover/LOS) they are worth it so much.

 

Combi melta's ae indeed a godssend for a Deathwing player suchs as myself, having (Semi) reliable anti AV14 is great, and against MC's they are still worththeir weight in gold. (I said semi reliable because last tournament I podded next to a LEMAN RUSS (Huge Bulking Tank... ) and 4 combi melta's and 2 krak shots failed to hit... 5 missed one krakhiot, and failed to glance/pen.. :lol:

[Natanael]

I've started building a Loganwing since I got my hands on almost 25 terminators. I dont have Njal, so my main concern is how important he is. Right now I have 4x5 WGT, Logan, a LW in TDA, 6 LFs and a LR, since I dont have enough TDA-models to make any more units. Been thinking of dropping the LR to get a large BC pack or maye some Fen Wolves in to screen and be irritating. The Fen wolves might be a good help since they are cheap and very fast, acting tarpits until my TDA gets there.

 

What do you think? I figured it might work since I skipped the whole "all TDA"-thing anyway.

 

- Natanel

[krewl]

I'd say a rune priest is definately worth it in your list.

Njal is a choice I don't know yet, as said before, 2 normal rune priests is less points, but so far Njal has been very usefull. In my limited games that is. (about 10 with him, including one tournament.)

 

Njal's passive lord of the Tempest helps as I play with several in your face threats (Like the 3 pods with termies and long fangs who you can not safely ignore). And then Njal might very well be in the huge 10 man termie squad, making him hard to take out early in the game. later in the game his ability starts to really hurt things, which strangely comes as a surprise to most of my non regular opponents.) This playstyle adds to the use I get from Njal, so he might be a less stellar fit in your list.

 

Not having Njal free's up more points then a landraider, after which you'd spend about half that again on one RP. (WOuld be my advice)

The free point's net you things like extra terminators, a lone wolf in TDA with toys, or more gear for your squads. Even a 2nd runepriest would fit into the points.

 

I am not shure about unprotected wolfs. Will they not just run away when shot at after 1 turn? If dropping the raider I'd just go for and extra pod'o Death with termies in it.

 

How would the blood claws arrive anywhere? They don't have a transport, and they'd need a LR anyways to get a charge.

Personally I feel assault troops should have 12" movement or be able to assault from transports. (I hate the rhino in this regard, love it for other uses, but every time a rhino with berserkers rides up I tend to get a brilliant turn shooting the standing deployed berserkers to bits, so they hardly ever make it to my lines). I'd try to find things that add to what you already have, not diversify to much in a list like this.

 

The basic idea is that more 2+ tough guys adds in overflowing your enemy's ability to take out 2+ saves, while adding something different will give him something his normal weapons can target.

[Natanael]

Good points there. I got 8 thunderwolves I could throw in (or at least a squad of 4 with kit) instead of the LR in my list. TWC are tough overall, and very very fast. I think the hybrid Loganwin/Cavalry lists would work very well in higher point levels (1500p+).

 

I can tell you're fond of RPs, but I don't know if they are very needed. Against Eldar they are great for shutting down all the passive powers, but against other opponents I dont feel they have much use except for the offensive powers (they work kida good w/ LL tough). I'd rather spend the points on more TDA or more LFs instead of having an RP.

 

About the Fen Wolves I think that 3x15 is not much, point-wise, but can do a lot of harm in a Loganwing-list. At 15 strong ppl need to kill quite a lot to get them to run, and even so, if one or two packs makes it to the front, they can kill light infantry, act as tarpits against more tough targets and tie up AP2-guns (support squads). They are a great distraction I feel.

 

The BCs would fill the same role, but be a bit more exepnsive and hard-hitting when they get to fight.

 

- Natanael

[krewl]

Maybe it's the local metagame here. I run into a lot of psychers, so I value the 4= (3+ on Njal) nullify very highly.

 

Stuff I ran into quite a bit lately:

Blood angels: Blood lance, Wings of sanguinius, those other CC boost powers, more attacks, S10 etc..

Tyranids: Paroxysm (twice a turn) on 2 hive tyrants, which makes you shoot and hit with BS/WS 1 until next nid turn..

Eldar: Eldrad + Seer Coucel(s) need I say more?

 

And Space Marines and IG also have quite powerfull psychic powers. So yeah, I value my hood/runestaff.

 

And against players who have no psy powers blocking me I can use my favorite powers. Living Lightning (Range), Murderous hurricane (Great to hinder anything wanting to assault you next turn,and did you try it on a solo character? ^_^ ) And then Jaws of the World Wolf, which is sometimes a life saver, sometimes useless in a list, but when you do get a nid player in front who you can use it on.... (last tourny, only one turn, but one with a tervignon and a trope going poof!)

 

So yeah I love me my psychics yeah. :(

 

Wolves in 3 groups of 15 would add up though, acting as bullet spunges. and who knows, one making it would enact bloody vengeance. I think you'd be unable to get bloodclaws (Without a transport) to be as threatening, as they'd need to much time to run across the board while beeing to tempting to shoot. Wolves (Beeing cav.) would be able to hit CC in T2 if you're postion/fleet is a bit lucky, t3 at the least. But BC's would run up less, and miss the 12"charge at the end. They'd be with less numbers and have less threat range. So I could see the wolves doing usefull stuff (Especially as they just distract from the real pain in your list, while they have the speed to force your enemy to shoot them, else there will be 45 wolves in his lines T2/3. If they do shoot at them though the termies have free reign to dish out hurt.

 

I see the wolves acting best in a list combined with you dropping 2 pods of something in his lines. Just one turn of distraction would be enough for a larger ammount of wolves to make it. then, you'd be mopping up I gues.

[ORKILL]

I ran

 

Logan

Njal

Wolf priest

lord inquisitor hood, pw, psb, sb, 2 mystic, 1 warrior chimera ml/hf, ea, smoke

 

5 scouts with pw, motw, mg, and meltabombs

 

 

6 grey hunters, motw, standard, mg, rhino

6 grey hunters, motw, plasma pistol, plasma gun rhino

3 wg, pf, pw/combi melta, pf/ combi melta

9 wg, 4x tda, combi melta/pf, th/ss, pw/hf, lc

5x pa, pw/bp, 2x sb, 2x pw/combi-flamer, rhino

5 grey hunters, motw, flamer, rhino

 

5 long fangs 4x ml

6 long fangs 2x lc, 3x hb

LRR w/multi-melta

 

I played Nick Rose/Darkwynn the current Ard Boyz and Gladiator champion the 1st round. He told me that mine was the only list that he was worried about. But he hammered the bejeezus out of me. I did kill over 1600 pts, though.

[Whamolla]

Once we start adding any alternative troop choices, I lose interest. I'm looking for a sustainable list with WG in TDA as the only troop choices.

[Natanael]

Then read the first 2 pages of this topic :) Now we're trying to evolve and bring good support units.

 

@krewl: I quess I should try out the Loganwing+Fen Wolves next week then. Got a game against my most regular opponent (who also happens to be the store champion) and it would be alot of fun to suprise him and give him a beating ^_^

 

30 Wolves (including 2 Cybers) costs 260 points. If you add 105 points for 3 pods (so two can land on turn 1) that is a lot of stuff i need to drop from my list to get them in.

 

LR + Lone Wolf is 345 points. Another 30 should not be too hard to save from other stuff. Then the lost would be something like this:

 

Logan, 1x10 TDA walking, 2x5 TDA in Pod, 6 LFs w/ Logan in Pod, 30 Fen Wolves running. 1750 points and kida killy, i think. What do you think? It might work?

 

- Natanael

[hmk17]

Think the point is being missed a little.

 

While all TDA models is in an idea being worked on, the Space Wolves codex is rich in answers for the problems we face on the table. A core force with flavoring from the rest of the book can work.

However, when you look at lists like Orkill's you see it's less "Wolf Wing / Logan Wing" and more of a build to maximize troop choice for objective games. No offense, but that is not difficult to build or work.

 

 

Having a ton of TDA models screaming across the field and still being able to counter the all-comers lists out there, that is difficult and rewarding when we figure out the method.

[krewl]

All TDA is cool, but it's just like playing the current grey knights in a pure list (One of my other armies).

 

You know you are limiting yourself, so your not 100% as powerfull as you could be.

 

@ Natanael could work quite well, but don't take it from me, proxy first (Unless you have the wolves already :P ).

You could also use those 300 ish points to deck out 3 squads of scouts with attacheched WG to do the other thing and force your enemy towards you by creating disruption in his back lines.

 

@ hmk17 and Whamolla. Thing is I started this thread for just TDA (And dreads, pods and landraiders, basically what Dark Angels Deathwing would have in a pure list)

 

Taking my list with the Long fangs you could easily do stuff like, swap Njal for a normal Runepriest in TDA, dump the long fangs and add another 5 men TDA squad. Basically that add's more combiweapons at the cost of uber characters psy powers and 3 ML shots a turn. You gain more alfa strike capability, but you have 4 pods so you still drop 2 first turn. Will that be all TDA enough for your liking?

 

I'm busy (But hard to find time) building the next 5 termies for my list, so I'll give that a run when I'm done. All TDA has a charm all of it's own. I should know, I have enough termies for 50+ but only about 20 finished with swappable arms for SW lists. 10 more are glued together for normal asssault cannon squads, might chop some arms there for DA squad configs when I win a million euro's and don't have to work anymore.

 

 

Minor request, could you (everyone that is) please start lists with how many points you play at? Prevents me and others from having to count up all your units :)

[Whamolla]

Krewl - I really like your 1700 point list.

 

I play at 1500 points:

 

TDA, SB, SS

TDA, SB, WC

TDA, SB, SS

TDA, SB, PW

TDA, PW, SB

TDA, SB, WC

TDA, Cyclone, SB, PF

 

Logan Grimnar

TDA, SB, SS

TDA, CM, WC

TDA, SB, WC

TDA, SB, WC

TDA, Cyclone, PW, SB

 

TDA, SB, SS

TDA, CM, PW

TDA, TH, SS

TDA, CM, WC

TDA, AC, CF

+ Drop Pod

 

LRR

Multi-melta

 

Vindicator

Extra Armor

 

I had taken Njal and a squad of WG out to accomodate the LRR and the vindicator. My troops were just taking too much fire as they marched across the field. After I added those heavy units, I still had enough points to add a couple of WG back into the squad that walks.

 

I'd like to put him back in but at 1500 points, I either have to lose the LRR or futher decrease my troop count.

[krewl]

I also started with just a list of 30 termies I think. Footslogging... 6 squads of 5 with a CML, walking arround.

The idea was that I'd move into position on some objectives while shooting a bulk of missiles.

 

But they failed to get anywere as I could often not walk freely from turn 1 (Because of Ap1 or 2 templates/guns still around) so I was to slow to get to objectives. And you hardly ever run, as you like to fire your guns while moving. that makes you mobile, but not fast.

 

I have 3 raiders so I though of those, but they cut into my ammount of termies to much, and I am not a landraider freak, but a terminator freak so I discarded that idea. (I think wolves are to expensive for a raider rush army. They can do it, but others do it better, and you need Logan for troop WG, he's also a landraider prized guy.. thats over 1000 points gone, and I have no troops yet... )

 

So I added some pods, which make me mobile, still tough, makes dropped combi melta's an option for tank killing really heavy stuff. The Long Fangs as I said are a way of getting more ranged and flexible firepower in the list. If you's change that for a WG unit in a pod you could still drop 2 units turn1 but chose wich ones. I like the 10 men block, they are a great place to hide your characters in, especially Njal likes that as Logan is harder with Eternal warrior and an extra wound. That keeps Njal alive for his late game power effects.

 

Njal is as I feel it so far possible at 1700, at 1500 he'd be overkill as you are so strapped for points already (We have the mandatory expensive HQ already, Njal in TDA is only 5 points cheaper or should I say LESS expensive. a regular RP instead of Njal hives you about 150-ish points extra for wargear throughout your units. I feel Njal would be to much he and logan would eat up over 500 points of your army, talk about small and elite :lol:

 

Truth be told I'd dump Njal and try other stuff if he didn't perform so well for me the last 10 or so games. Might be because I played lists that he was good ad adding extra value in. So I'm open to replacing him, and I might do that anyway as I paint up the next 5 termies later on.

[Mar Bloodaxe]

Hello,

 

I have had a lot of success with a hybrid "Wolf Wing" list. I call it 'kraked out'

 

I mix the wolfguard with power armor with the Cyclone guys to maximize my points and get as many krak missiles as possible. I put two drop pods in with WG combi-meltas and a couple of combi-flamers, and a cyclone in there with a combi melta as well. I also run bikes to assist the guys who just dropped in. They have a WG leading them with a thunder hammer. I use the walkign guys to down what I can, crisis suits of improperly deployed, rhinos, preds, dreads, and trukks, etc.

 

The podded guys are used for hard stuff. I killed a Blood thirster with them on the drop once. Very satisfying. Logan goes with the LF and gives them relentless or tank hunters as needed. I know they are fragile but I have other threats for the enemy to deal with too. Anyhow here is the list. It could probably use some refinement.

 

2000 Pts - Space Wolves Roster - Logan

 

1 Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf @ 275 pts

 

1 Rune Priest @ 140 pts (...in Terminator Armour)

1 Rune Priest in Terminator Armour (Chooser of the Slain; Living Lightning; Murderous Hurricane; Saga of the Beastslayer)

 

1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 300 pts (Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Chain Fist; Cyclone Missile Launcher)

1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Chain Fist; Cyclone Missile Launcher)

 

1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 300 pts (Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Chain Fist; Cyclone Missile Launcher)

1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Chain Fist; Cyclone Missile Launcher)

 

1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 334 pts (Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Drop Pod)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Flamer x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol; Thunder Hammer x1) Goes with bikers

1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Combi-Meltagun; Chain Fist; Cyclone Missile Launcher)

1 Drop Pod

 

1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 279 pts (Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Drop Pod)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Flamer x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Flamer x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Combi-Meltagun; Chain Fist; Cyclone Missile Launcher)

1 Drop Pod

 

5 Long Fangs Pack @ 215 pts (Lascannon x5)

1 Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

 

4 Swiftclaw Biker Pack @ 150 pts (Flamer; Power Weapon; Swiftclaw Attack Bike)

1 Swiftclaw Attack Bike

[krewl]

Look Less wall of Text :P same info, much easier to read.

(Not very TDA like also, you don't even reach 50% terminators)

 

2000 Pts - Space Wolves Roster - Logan

 

1 Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf @ 275 pts

 

1 Rune Priest in Terminator Armour

Chooser of the Slain;

Living Lightning; Murderous Hurricane;

Saga of the Beastslayer

 

1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 300 pts

8 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

2 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Chain Fist; Cyclone Missile Launcher)

 

1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 300 pts

8 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

2 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Chain Fist; Cyclone Missile Launcher)

 

1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 334 pts

5 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol; Thunder Hammer x1) Goes with bikers

1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Combi-Meltagun; Chain Fist; Cyclone Missile Launcher)

1 Drop Pod

 

1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 279 pts (Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Drop Pod)

2 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Flamer x1)

5 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1)

1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Combi-Meltagun; Chain Fist; Cyclone Missile Launcher)

1 Drop Pod

 

5 Long Fangs Pack @ 215 pts (Lascannon x5)

1 Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)

 

4 Swiftclaw Biker Pack @ 150 pts (Flamer; Power Weapon; Swiftclaw Attack Bike)

1 Swiftclaw Attack Bike

 

So now on to the list, let's see...

12 Krak/frag rockits, 5 lascannon shots. Do you split a cyclone from a squad to add it to the long fangs?

I do in my lists, but then my long fangs have 5 ML's not lascannons (LC).

 

Do you find the 15 points more expensive a piece LC's worth it? That's 75 points you could save there, but they do add up to S10 against tanks or S9 relentless with Logan. In your experience has the extra S and Ap been worth the price hike?

 

I like the small bike unit, depends on what you do with it. as you write it is jack of all trades, bit melta, bit flamer, bit CC, bit powerweapon, bit high S, low I.

Do you purposely make it so that it can support everything else? You write it supports the drop pod squads, so why not place the powerweapons in the drop pod squads so they can save themselves? Some more claws, mark of the Wulfen, power weapons in the pod squads and they can help themselves.

 

If you intend to suicide the wolf pod squads they are to big, just take 4 WG with combimelta's drop near a tank and remove them from a table ;)

But then if you survive the drop and killed something (Should have with 5 melta's) then what doe you do? They have no powerweapons or heavy shooting after the 1 shot combiweapon.

 

So what I am trying to say is, I don't understand how you play your army, besides pumping a lot of krak missiles into the enemy (Never a bad plan I find, look at my own list to see that I agree :) ) I just find the large ammount of Wolfguard in PA doing nothing a bit of a waste, just to get more krak missiles.

Is it not a better idea to get more long fangs then. They do 5 shots a unit for 140 points, though less mobile, good deployment should fix that.

 

Could you tell me more on how you play, then I might be better able to assist you.

[Mar Bloodaxe]

So now on to the list, let's see...

12 Krak/frag rockits, 5 lascannon shots. Do you split a cyclone from a squad to add it to the long fangs?

 

I do not split them off. I use the long fangs to take out higher armored foes with the TH ability, when they are done with that job, I move Logan out to join a WG squad.

I do in my lists, but then my long fangs have 5 ML's not lascannons (LC).

 

Do you find the 15 points more expensive a piece LC's worth it? That's 75 points you could save there, but they do add up to S10 against tanks or S9 relentless with Logan. In your experience has the extra S and Ap been worth the price hike?

 

Yes. Where I play everyone is mechanized. Rhino, Devilfish, trukks and the like. That is partly how the list came about. I'll go into that at the end.

 

I like the small bike unit, depends on what you do with it. as you write it is jack of all trades, bit melta, bit flamer, bit CC, bit powerweapon, bit high S, low I.

Do you purposely make it so that it can support everything else? You write it supports the drop pod squads, so why not place the powerweapons in the drop pod squads so they can save themselves? Some more claws, mark of the Wulfen, power weapons in the pod squads and they can help themselves.

 

The bike squads are anti infantry. They have an attack bike with heavy bolter, power weapon, and a thunder hammer via WG. I had fenrisian wolves in there before but they weren't resilient enough for my tastes, hence the bikes.

If you intend to suicide the wolf pod squads they are to big, just take 4 WG with combimelta's drop near a tank and remove them from a table ;)

But then if you survive the drop and killed something (Should have with 5 melta's) then what doe you do? They have no powerweapons or heavy shooting after the 1 shot combiweapon.

 

The dropped WG after they have removed a tank, will then advance with the Cyclone that is in the unit so as not to be a waste. The cyclone has a chainfist as well. I did have a suicide squad of only 3 and I may go back to that. I figured if I bring enough st8 ap1 to the table I can ensure I blow up what I shoot. The drop pod guys were recently added in. I had them on the ground with cc weapons and no meltas and a had a suicide unit. I may go back to that.

So what I am trying to say is, I don't understand how you play your army, besides pumping a lot of krak missiles into the enemy (Never a bad plan I find, look at my own list to see that I agree :) ) I just find the large amount of Wolfguard in PA doing nothing a bit of a waste, just to get more krak missiles.

Is it not a better idea to get more long fangs then. They do 5 shots a unit for 140 points, though less mobile, good deployment should fix that.

 

Ah ha the large amount in power armor are doing alot, moving and shooting. They are grabbing and holding an objectives. I have suckered many a foe into trying to attack them in melee. I keep the rune priest with one of the walking squads, using MH when they get close, after I have slowed them down i hit them next turn with LL and krak, then instead of me taking the charge, I move in for the kill since the walking WG have 2/3 attacks and then they charge plus Living Legend from Logan, that's 5 cc attacks each WG and 8 chainfist attacks. I am still trying to refine the list. I added pods and bikes because the original list was 2 x LF with krak, no bikes, and no pods. I have tried different ones up to now. the list I posted is the one I have done the best with. I may reconsider the WG in pods as a suicide squad like my friend does.

 

I like that I have a bigger squad that can still dole out two krak/frag shots after landing. can move and contest or block charging lanes if needed. they are a tool box. I almost wish they had Sternguard ammo. Thanks for posting and I hope this gives you some insight on what my plan is for this army.

 

Could you tell me more on how you play, then I might be better able to assist you.

[LPetersson]

I'm currently mulling the following 1500 points Logan's Heroes list over in my mind:

 

Logan, 4xWGT-1xAC - Drop Pod

Arjac, 4xWGT-1xHeavy Flamer - Drop Pod

5xWGT - Drop Pod

4xWGT-1CML

3xWG-2xStorm Bolter, 1xPower Weapon

 

3xLong Fangs-2xML, 1xWG in Rhino

3xLong Fangs-2xML, 1xWG in Rhino

 

1500 points exactly.

 

I was thinking of maybe moving some points around to get some combi-meltas in the barebones WGT squad.

the Long Fangs are in rhinos so I can be reasonably certain that they won't get taken out in the first turn. Although I suppose I could get some Land speeders for the same points. Or drop the rhinos for more MLs...

 

Depending on further tinkering, this list will face Eldar and CSM next week and probably BA shortly after that.

Thoughts?

[krewl]

Looking at the date on the last post I'd say it's not worth it to reply to the specific questions, let me know if you still need advice, but I gues you've tested and played you list a bit by now.

 

I'd like to add to the topic with my own experiences playing the Loganwing (as wolfwing is so pase now, the Internet title for WG lists is obviously loganwing now.

 

I started with this list which I have played for at least more then half a year: (1700 pts)

 

Logan

Njal in TDA

 

10 WG termies, 2 cyclones, 2 fists (Used to have storm shields, but swapped for:) 3 combiplasma, 3 x single wolf claw.

5 WG in TDA, Drop pod, 1 Cyclone, 2 combimelta, 1 combiplasma, combiflamer, 2 fists

5 WG in TDA, Drop pod, 1 Cyclone, 3 combimelta, 1 combiplasma, 2 fists

Long Fangs 6 men, 5 Missile launchers, drop pod.

 

Depending on the game I swap on Cyclone to the long fangs with logan for 7 S8 relentless shots, or tankhunting if they can stand still. Dropping this combi in a pod is a killer unit as it can get side shots and good LOS in almost every game.

If Logan drops with them I support it with my 2nd pod nearby so Logan can jump unit once the fang unit gets either thinned out or assault threatens.

 

Njal has left the list even though his 3+ staff and knowing all powers turned out supremely flexible. The main reason for this is I think his 2 wounds. which make sure he dies a lot faster then you'd like. Even a marine tactical combat squad is scary for him, 270 points is to much to dare to throw into CC somewhere.

In a game Njal's secondary passive power becomes active in late game, at which time I tend to be in 1 of 2 situations;

- I am winning and there's not a lot left for his chain lightning to hit.

- I am losing and Njal doesn't make it to do his super stuff.

I have only rarely been able to make use of his extra abilities, so he turned out not to be worth the price premium.

The psychic protection he offers is very good, but can be replicated by giving a normal runepriest a wolftail talisman, so you get a nullify on a 4+ and then a 5+ save against damage on a unit. not as good, but about 150 points cheaper, yes please!

 

So what is going in when Njal's out? Another long fangs squad with 5 ML's off course (option one) or a 2nd runepriest in TDA. The benefits are obvious for both, a second priest gives you 2 choosers, making about the entire board unavailable for infiltrators, adding +1 BS to the priests. Also 2 priests can have 4 powers combined, so you stil have the good stuff. As I have many terminators, a 5+ cover save is not needed, the freki and Greri shooting power is meah because of the low nr. of shots and low Strength, Thunderclaw is meah because of the low AP, low S and the need to be in CC range where your priests do not want to be most of the time.

 

So what is good (The first 2 are my favorites):

- Living Lightning, a must have for the unlimited range S7. great ant MC and anti transport power.

- Murderous hurricane, the 3D6 hits can be a boon if you roll well, but the real power is in the dangerous terrain rolls which can be a killer in large units as they ignore coversaves, armour saves and hinder a unit from reaching you.

- Jaws of the World Wolf. Situational, but when you position the priest well many rolls can and will take down tough multi wound creatuires, and the few times you run into low I army's (Orks, Necrons, some Nids) this is almost overpowered. Against others it's almost useless (Eldar of both sorts). Against Marines of any kind it so-so, not bad but not great also.

- Tempest Wrath. Also very situational, Dark Eldar, Jumppacker BA, skimmer heavy eldar, drop pod marines, they all get hurt by this a LOT. Other army's make this power useless. Deamons hate this if you get the first turn, they drop in all around you, and take a bucketload of hits from dangerous terrain. Try to keep the power up untill his troops have all come from reserves.

 

So if I take 2 priests, I'd take the Living Lightning and tempest Wrath on the one that stays back defending the "base", while the Jaws + Murderous Hurricane priest walks on up with the 10 man blob of termies, to come closer for the hurricane and Jaws lower ranged attacks.

 

The Fangs are simpler deploy in cover with good LOS and shoot stuff. Easy right :P

 

Has anyone tried Arjac as stated in the post above? I tend to find him so overpriced as you can buy several kitted Wolf guard in TDA for 1 Arjac. Havent tried him though, so I am open to usage tips.

 

I'm going to a tournament again in about 4 weeks, I'll let you know how the wolfs performed.

[LPetersson]

Looking at the date on the last post I'd say it's not worth it to reply to the specific questions, let me know if you still need advice, but I gues you've tested and played you list a bit by now.

 

 

Indeed I have, except that I decided to keep it purely TDA so the Long Fangs got dropped in favour of more termies.

 

I have found Njal to be useful and flexible but too pricey for a Logan's Heroes list below 1750. I'd rather get almost 2 normal RPs for his points.

 

Arjac is pricey indeed, but he is also an absolute monster. Opponents quickly learn to fear him and in future games the concentrate on him so he makes up his points by keeping other stuff alive. I like to bring him in games of 1750 or higher.

 

For a Logan's Heroes list, I've also started using dreadnoughts. I'm still working on this to see how it goes. So far quite well.

I should really post some battle reports at some point...

[nurglez]

personally, i see one of the main benefits of arjac is that you can put him with a large squad of grey hunters, and he can use his str10 with 10 ablative wounds, i like the idea of him in a termie army though and will try him out at some pint, but still need a lot more games with my logan wing (played 1 so far heh), but as i moved house and stuffs its hard to play games vs my friends.

[Whamolla]

I am still very interested in a mostly terminator list and a I refer back to this thread for ideas fairly often.

 

What made you decide to drop the storm shields and how has that affected the lifespan of your squads?

[whiteridder]

Well, I've used Arjac with 5 th/ss wolfguard terminators in a landraider crusader. If he come in CC, he is devasting. But at the other hand, it's an expensive unit!!!! But thet rocks!!

[nurglez]

Played 2 games vs the same army list, and i lost both times, but the second game was a lot closer then the first. I'm sticking with foot slogging logan wing at the mo, pure termies, just because i want to get used to the limitations it enforces.

 

Though i'm currently putting together a drop pod and i have a landraider redeemer being worked on, but as i play at 1500 points its rather tricky to fit everything i want in :tu:

 

I use storm shields, 1 in each 5 man squad and 2 in the 5man squad that logan joins, I too am interested in how dropping these has effected the survivability of your squads.

 

I must try and convince my friend to play 1800 or 2000 point games... I'm sure the dynamics will change with a landraider along....

[Wysten]

Not really planning to take termies yet, I have only just started building a standard wolf army. Though the appeal of massing an elite army definately has it's attactions! Best way to hide a rock, is to hide it in a mountain!

 

HQ

 

Logan: 275

 

Troops:

 

 

 

5 Termies

2 Power weapon and Storm Bolter

1 Power Weapon and Plasma Gun

1 Power Weapon and Storm Sheild

1 Cyclone Missle Launcher.

 

200

 

5 Termies

3 Power weapon and Storm Bolter

1 Power Weapon and Storm Sheild

2 Cyclone Missle Launcher with power weapon and Storm Bolter.

4 Power Armour

2 with Power Weapon and Combi melta

1 With Power Fist and Combi melta

1 with Pistol and Storm Sheild

 

430

 

FA

 

Thunder Wolf X 3

Power Fist

 

Thunder Wolf X 3

Power Fist

 

350

 

Heavy

 

6 Long Fangs

5 Missle Launcher

 

 

140

 

140 + 350 + 635 + 275 = 1500.

 

 

Though, to be honest, it does not look that hard now that I think of it. It lacks real killer stuff like fists. 11 Missles, 2 squads of thunderwolf, 10 terminators, 11 power armour and logan. sounds quite small. lolz.