silversmith82 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 As the title states. What is the wisdom of taking this guy in place of a GM? He has a similar statline, the 1 less wound is not really an issue because of the retinue rule. Biggest issue I can see is his 1 less attack and inability to take wargear. Still, he kind of makes up for it what with being 4 points less than a bare bones GM and is pretty well equipped with 2 psychic powers, re-rolling ability, and the GM version of a NFW. For simplicity sake: Stern Statline WS5, BS5, S4, T4, W2, I5, A3, LD10 GM Statline WS5, BS5, S4, T4, W3, I5, A4, LD10 Stern Benefits: Cheap "baby" version of GM with Holocaust, Hammerhand, Grimorie, NFW counts as a GM force weapon and 1 re-roll per PHASE. Stern Negatives: No access to wargear, opponent gets to use Stern's re-roll rule as many times as he does at their own leisure. Only usable in 1,500+ GK Benefits: More attacks, more wounds, access to wargear, not limited to 1,500+ pts. GK Cons: EXPENSIVE, no re-roll rule which isn't really a HUGE deal but when you really REALLY need to pass a psychic test to kill something big or roll a terrible difficult terrain test on an assault... it comes in handy. Thoughts/feelings/opinions on Stern vs a regular Grand Master? I'm kind of torn. Stern is one of my favorite special characters but he seems a bit limiting and being able to get basically 5 attacks by master crafting the NFW is just silly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183553-using-bc-stern-in-place-of-a-gkgm/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Prefer the extra attacks and access to Psychic Hood/Sacred Incense etc for the extra 4pts of the GM. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183553-using-bc-stern-in-place-of-a-gkgm/#findComment-2170732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Prefer the extra attacks and access to Psychic Hood/Sacred Incense etc for the extra 4pts of the GM. I agree; Stern's bonuses don't make him equivalent to a naked GKGM, and the GKGM has better wargear options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183553-using-bc-stern-in-place-of-a-gkgm/#findComment-2170805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Also being able to allocate a couple of Power Weapon or Plasma gun wounds to the GM before you reduce the effectiveness of the unit helps. I'm not precious with my GKT, I send them in to do a job and if they die, they die, but I much prefer them to ALL get to where I want them to be before they start dropping. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183553-using-bc-stern-in-place-of-a-gkgm/#findComment-2170811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
templargdt Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Never used Stern, I think the loss of a wound and an attack is simply not worth the wargear and four points. Great Model though. I use one for my Grand Master and a converted one for my Blood Ravens TDA Libby. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183553-using-bc-stern-in-place-of-a-gkgm/#findComment-2170968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
silversmith82 Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 Yeah regardless of whether I actually use Stern or not I'm going to use his model. I likely will make him a grand master and probably going to find a painting/conversion wizard over on Relic to do some surgery on him to make him unique. Definitely want to replace his left arm with either an incinerator or psycannon arm, spiff up the weapon and gs a robe hood. Hell even if I just have a regular BC as my "HQ" I'll use that model to make it stand out from the vanilla BC that comes in the GKT box. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183553-using-bc-stern-in-place-of-a-gkgm/#findComment-2171576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt91/Sa...pg?t=1257108574 It's not too difficult with a dremmel tool and a spare GKT to make Stern look completely different. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183553-using-bc-stern-in-place-of-a-gkgm/#findComment-2171744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Swas Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I think you're missing the beauty of fielding a GM AND Stern. He's a GM lite with not huge drawbacks for two powers and re-rolling. He's the only way to have two models better than a BC on the table, which is where his true strength lies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183553-using-bc-stern-in-place-of-a-gkgm/#findComment-2172615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom James Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I think you're missing the beauty of fielding a GM AND Stern. He's a GM lite with not huge drawbacks for two powers and re-rolling. He's the only way to have two models better than a BC on the table, which is where his true strength lies. I thought that the Grey knight hero was 0-1, so you can use a BC (including Stern) as HQ, OR the GKGM, but never both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183553-using-bc-stern-in-place-of-a-gkgm/#findComment-2172781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
silversmith82 Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Wow I had never thought of that joyous option... DH FAQ states that Coteaz and Stern do NOT count towards the 0-1 limitation for their respective units. This is amazatron. Why did I not put that 2+2 together before??? @Sam Nagol: I finally got my laptop over to a wifi area today (deployed and military computers block EVERYTHING picture related). That is a pretty sweet conversion. You could do a similar job to a regular BC or Lysander I bet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183553-using-bc-stern-in-place-of-a-gkgm/#findComment-2173062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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